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Wisconsin vs Total Recall
- Thread starter FreshFish
- Start date
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall
Here's a link from the same paper, an article a year later.
http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto.../voter_fraud.ART_ART_11-16-09_A1_O9FM66J.html
6 prosecutions, that six, not 60, 6,000, 60,000 or 600,000. Six. A year after the election. One guy voted twice, and 5 weren't residents. Yup, dat darn near cost McCain da state Bubba!
Here's a link from the same paper, an article a year later.
http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto.../voter_fraud.ART_ART_11-16-09_A1_O9FM66J.html
6 prosecutions, that six, not 60, 6,000, 60,000 or 600,000. Six. A year after the election. One guy voted twice, and 5 weren't residents. Yup, dat darn near cost McCain da state Bubba!
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall
Someone else asked about public vs private salaries;
This from a Dept of Education survey
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall
I found no explanation as to why 200,000 voter registrations did not match SSN's or Driver license numbers. Did Bunner pull a Holder and just say I'm not going to follow up on that or was it that their 7's looked like 1's?
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall
The majority of this state or any other state realizes that ice cream tastes good. Beyond that...
You are putting way more stock in their ability to distinguish fact from propaganda when it comes to politics than I do.
The Dems needed a candidate that excited the middle rather than just a different-from-the-current option. Change for change's sake isn't good enough.
The majority of this state or any other state realizes that ice cream tastes good. Beyond that...
You are putting way more stock in their ability to distinguish fact from propaganda when it comes to politics than I do.
The Dems needed a candidate that excited the middle rather than just a different-from-the-current option. Change for change's sake isn't good enough.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall
And none of the Dems' candidates were worth anyone's time...that is certainly a big problem for them in this recall election. I'm not sure it really would have mattered, but putting up the same guy that lost to Walker in the general election wasn't a good idea...
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall
I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't big labor endorse the candidate that Barrett beat? Wouldn't that further the argument that people are distancing themselves from unions?
Timothy A
Let's go RED!
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall
The Unions wanted Kathleen Falk to run and backed her, and even told Barrett not to get involved, but he did anyway. Then the unions had to put their tales between their legs and toss their cash Barrett's way when he trounced Falk. I guess right there that shows how little influence the unions have left, though 99% of them will still vote against Walker. I think it's really a vote against Walker than for Barrett. Bozo The Clown could have run as a democrat and got 45% with the anti Walker sediment.
Distinguishing facts from propaganda is almost impossible. I don't believe Barrett has done as lousy a job as the Mayor of Milwaukee as Walker is making him out to be and Walker isn't the crook Barrett is making him out to be.
The Unions wanted Kathleen Falk to run and backed her, and even told Barrett not to get involved, but he did anyway. Then the unions had to put their tales between their legs and toss their cash Barrett's way when he trounced Falk. I guess right there that shows how little influence the unions have left, though 99% of them will still vote against Walker. I think it's really a vote against Walker than for Barrett. Bozo The Clown could have run as a democrat and got 45% with the anti Walker sediment.
Distinguishing facts from propaganda is almost impossible. I don't believe Barrett has done as lousy a job as the Mayor of Milwaukee as Walker is making him out to be and Walker isn't the crook Barrett is making him out to be.
ExileOnDaytonStreet
Drunkard
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall
Yeah, but they're both pretty corrupt and I don't trust that either of them have the best interests of the state. It's either massive debt or Wis-issippi with these two.
Uh... Hair Trivedi for Governor?
Yeah, but they're both pretty corrupt and I don't trust that either of them have the best interests of the state. It's either massive debt or Wis-issippi with these two.
Uh... Hair Trivedi for Governor?
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall
Sometimes I wonder how many people legitimately signed the petition for recall...the stories of those petitions is crazy, with people signing multiple times and Mickey Mouse being involved among other things.
Sometimes I wonder how many people legitimately signed the petition for recall...the stories of those petitions is crazy, with people signing multiple times and Mickey Mouse being involved among other things.
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall
The Supreme Court stepped in and handled the problem. Figured after 2000, you'd be fine with that.
The Supreme Court stepped in and handled the problem. Figured after 2000, you'd be fine with that.
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall
The petitions are public record and there were tea-baggers looking them over for problems. Nothing of any significance was ever produced that showed them to be fraudulent.
Again, here's where propaganda wins out over fact.
Even though no proof was ever produced, it was repeated by all of the usual suspects enough that it became fact.
The petitions are public record and there were tea-baggers looking them over for problems. Nothing of any significance was ever produced that showed them to be fraudulent.
Again, here's where propaganda wins out over fact.
Even though no proof was ever produced, it was repeated by all of the usual suspects enough that it became fact.
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall
It is true that he's a millionaire! But the "real" truth is that he made a good chunk of his business capital day-trading, while he was still a teacher. True story.
It is true that he's a millionaire! But the "real" truth is that he made a good chunk of his business capital day-trading, while he was still a teacher. True story.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall
An error rate of 20% is pretty significant, probably not enough to actually prevent the recall election because the threshold is way too low but that's rather significant.
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall
Yep - that was me. Though I was hoping for a something other than education. There was a bit of trouble last time that one came up.
Those numbers appear to be really far apart. But they're actually not.
The first thing you need to do is eliminate all the parochial schools. Those simply aren't a good comparison. Some public school systems offer great benefits. But last I knew, there weren't any that offered salvation.
It's just not quite the same deal.
You also can't really look at total compensation (all sources), because there may be systematic variation in propensity to seek outside employment. The sorts of folks who work at public schools may be more/less likely than private school counterparts to have outside, paid employment. Especially the religious schools. So let's look at school compensation.
That gives us:
public: 49,600
private nonsectarian 41,700
Obviously, there's still a sizable gap. But before leaping to conclusions about market distortions, it's worth asking whether the folks who take jobs at private schools include prestige and working environment as part of their utility function. Seems reasonable to me.
Especially when you consider:
public, charter school: 40,800
Which isn't that much more than 41,700 when you think about it. Goodness, it almost looks like functioning labor market.
There are all sorts of things wrong with public education. Systematic overcompensation, if it's on the list at all, is really, really far down the list.
Yep - that was me. Though I was hoping for a something other than education. There was a bit of trouble last time that one came up.
Those numbers appear to be really far apart. But they're actually not.
The first thing you need to do is eliminate all the parochial schools. Those simply aren't a good comparison. Some public school systems offer great benefits. But last I knew, there weren't any that offered salvation.
It's just not quite the same deal.You also can't really look at total compensation (all sources), because there may be systematic variation in propensity to seek outside employment. The sorts of folks who work at public schools may be more/less likely than private school counterparts to have outside, paid employment. Especially the religious schools. So let's look at school compensation.
That gives us:
public: 49,600
private nonsectarian 41,700
Obviously, there's still a sizable gap. But before leaping to conclusions about market distortions, it's worth asking whether the folks who take jobs at private schools include prestige and working environment as part of their utility function. Seems reasonable to me.
Especially when you consider:
public, charter school: 40,800
Which isn't that much more than 41,700 when you think about it. Goodness, it almost looks like functioning labor market.
There are all sorts of things wrong with public education. Systematic overcompensation, if it's on the list at all, is really, really far down the list.
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WeWantMore
New member
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall
Madison reporting 119% turnout. That's... worrying for Walker supporters.
Madison reporting 119% turnout. That's... worrying for Walker supporters.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall
Also, most public school teachers have master's degrees or more, must be certified, etc. I believe that same survey says nearly the entire pay difference can be attributable to educational and experience differences...
If you want to argue 1st grade teachers shouldn't need a master's degree, I'm with you. But let's not pretend there aren't other differences affecting the pay besides simply "public vs. private"
Also, most public school teachers have master's degrees or more, must be certified, etc. I believe that same survey says nearly the entire pay difference can be attributable to educational and experience differences...
If you want to argue 1st grade teachers shouldn't need a master's degree, I'm with you. But let's not pretend there aren't other differences affecting the pay besides simply "public vs. private"
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Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall
If I were a cynical conspiracy theorist, I would hold forth that the GOP blathering about voter ID and voter fraud is a big con to distract us from rigging the elections via tampering with the electronic voting matchines.
I'm not a cynical conspiracy theorist, so I merely express my concern with the security of the machines semi-regularly when discussing the topic of election fraud. I think a significant fraction of the GOP support for the voter ID laws has a sincere belief that there is a real voter fraud issue.
If I were a cynical conspiracy theorist, I would hold forth that the GOP blathering about voter ID and voter fraud is a big con to distract us from rigging the elections via tampering with the electronic voting matchines.
I'm not a cynical conspiracy theorist, so I merely express my concern with the security of the machines semi-regularly when discussing the topic of election fraud. I think a significant fraction of the GOP support for the voter ID laws has a sincere belief that there is a real voter fraud issue.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall
Bullshiat. Massive voter fraud in the U.S. would be headline news. At hte least, we'd hear about elections being thrown out and re-done if it was ever proveable.
I'm not sure if you're a liar, or just someone susceptible to scare tactics. But it's clear you're one or the other.
Bullshiat. Massive voter fraud in the U.S. would be headline news. At hte least, we'd hear about elections being thrown out and re-done if it was ever proveable.
I'm not sure if you're a liar, or just someone susceptible to scare tactics. But it's clear you're one or the other.
Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall
Like the Diebold guy in Ohio who announced in advance his intent to steal the state for Bush. Right? Nobody has ever shown that electronic voting machines can be "tampered" with on the scale necessary to tip the outcome of an election (either undercounting votes for X or overcounting votes for Y). And there have been no instances where this has been alleged and proven.
Like the Diebold guy in Ohio who announced in advance his intent to steal the state for Bush. Right? Nobody has ever shown that electronic voting machines can be "tampered" with on the scale necessary to tip the outcome of an election (either undercounting votes for X or overcounting votes for Y). And there have been no instances where this has been alleged and proven.