WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

[markwojo]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

Culture is an issue. Hockey is 3rd fiddle at UW. But for every excuse or limitation you want to bring up, there are very few schools that don't have far greater issues when compared to UW when you look at the whole picture. There are not 14 schools in the country that have advantages overall over Wisconsin to explain how UW has rarely made the tourney the last 7 or 8 years. I got a list of 10 and Notre Dame isn't even close on so many levels. The more I think about that list MSU? UNH? really? MSU and their 6000 seater 1970's fieldhouse with less recent sucess then UW as far as tourney appearances? There are at best a single handful of schools that have an advantage in the overall package of hockey over UW and MAYBE another handful you can make an arguement for while keeping a straight face. Saying hockey is the marquee sport or only d1 sport at places like CC, UNO, UMD, UNH, BU SCSU, or whomever else you want to make that arguement with out acknowledging the tremendous advantages UW has in terms of facilities, history, tv exposure, nhl alumni, financial resources, ect, ect, ect is a disengenuous comparision.

If you want to bring up the Schmaltz brothers or McIsohen, do North Dakota get every recruit they want or try for? Minnesota? Denver? Wisconsin never gets kids any of those schools would want? Eaves issues are not talent in as much as it is unbalanced talent and lacking a high end forward concistantly (which is only exasperated by unbalanced classes and earlier then expected departures). Eaves has put more players in the NHL in his tenure then anyone (I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he has...if not...he is a close 2nd).

 

[RonWolf]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

I for one can't wait for the Rammage to graduate. I don't know how, or who selects captains, but his reign here the last two years has been brutal. I don't personally know the kid, met him for 30 sec a couple years ago and seems like a nice kid, but man, watching him on the ice just drives me nuts sometimes. And last night was one of those nights. They don't score goals, and I get that they need to stress defense with these kids, at this time, and win the low scoring games, so how do you get beat from the corner in a must win, or at least tie game, with under a minute left? It's unacceptable. He's suppose to be the leader of this team and he let em down last night with his lack of hustle. LACK OF HUSTLE, from the captain? I only get to see televised games, so I know my sample of games is pretty small, but with all the hype this guy came in with, is it fair to lable him a bust? I'm sorry to slam one player, but with all the blame the forwards and coach have been given, I thought I would spread it around a bit.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

But for every excuse or limitation you want to bring up, there are very few schools that don't have far greater issues when compared to UW when you look at the whole picture.

Exactly right.
Another advantage: A diploma that means something!


As for Rammer: I only listened, but I have to wonder what that kid's legs were feeling like by the time OT rolled around. He's hardly ever off the ice.

 

[Tiggsy]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

Culture is an issue. Hockey is 3rd fiddle at UW. But for every excuse or limitation you want to bring up, there are very few schools that don't have far greater issues when compared to UW when you look at the whole picture. There are not 14 schools in the country that have advantages overall over Wisconsin to explain how UW has rarely made the tourney the last 7 or 8 years. I got a list of 10 and Notre Dame isn't even close on so many levels. The more I think about that list MSU? UNH? really? MSU and their 6000 seater 1970's fieldhouse with less recent sucess then UW as far as tourney appearances? There are at best a single handful of schools that have an advantage in the overall package of hockey over UW and MAYBE another handful you can make an arguement for while keeping a straight face. Saying hockey is the marquee sport or only d1 sport at places like CC, UNO, UMD, UNH, BU SCSU, or whomever else you want to make that arguement with out acknowledging the tremendous advantages UW has in terms of facilities, history, tv exposure, nhl alumni, financial resources, ect, ect, ect is a disengenuous comparision.

If you want to bring up the Schmaltz brothers or McIsohen, do North Dakota get every recruit they want or try for? Minnesota? Denver? Wisconsin never gets kids any of those schools would want? Eaves issues are not talent in as much as it is unbalanced talent and lacking a high end forward concistantly (which is only exasperated by unbalanced classes and earlier then expected departures). Eaves has put more players in the NHL in his tenure then anyone (I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he has...if not...he is a close 2nd).

While I am getting a kick out of watching Dubbs and the group snipe at him, I'll throw my opinion out there.

I think you hit it right here. Culture is the issue at UW which is one of the main reasons for a sustained slip. UW hockey does not have the same die hard fan base that other sports at UW or other schools have. Not saying they are not out there, but they are far fewer in comparison to MN or UND. Barry knows this so he has realized he can neglect hockey without too many people noticing or caring. And that's exactly what is gonig on. Because of that right there, it goes a long way to neutralize any of the other things you list as advantages. Unless you are assured of making the NHL, you want to play in front of a passionate die hard crowd and play for hardware. Future NHL players don't care as much because they are just using college as a stepping stone.

 

[icebadger]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

I for one can't wait for the Rammage to graduate. I don't know how, or who selects captains, but his reign here the last two years has been brutal. I don't personally know the kid, met him for 30 sec a couple years ago and seems like a nice kid, but man, watching him on the ice just drives me nuts sometimes. And last night was one of those nights. They don't score goals, and I get that they need to stress defense with these kids, at this time, and win the low scoring games, so how do you get beat from the corner in a must win, or at least tie game, with under a minute left? It's unacceptable. He's suppose to be the leader of this team and he let em down last night with his lack of hustle. LACK OF HUSTLE, from the captain? I only get to see televised games, so I know my sample of games is pretty small, but with all the hype this guy came in with, is it fair to lable him a bust? I'm sorry to slam one player, but with all the blame the forwards and coach have been given, I thought I would spread it around a bit.

Also, on the replay of the 2nd goal, it appeared that he passed the puck directly to the opponent in front of the net. Not sure if that was intentional or not, but he does seem to put himself in those situations too often. On the bright side, at least this year he is making the other team put the puck in the net by passing it to them as opposed to putting directly in for them.

 

[RonWolf]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

As for Rammer: I only listened, but I have to wonder what that kid's legs were feeling like by the time OT rolled around. He's hardly ever off the ice.[/QUOTE]


Yeah, who knows how he was feeling, we did just come off a time out though. I'm just airing out my thoughts on other problems I'm seeing. Just looking for that next Burish to come along. Plays smart and plays with fire until the end.

 

[joeyv]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

JDUBBS,

You've made my point for me. I thought I was quite clear that I have expectations. I am entitled to have high expectations, and my entitlement is not that "we are wisconsin and because we are we win", its that based on the track record of the program, I am entitled to demand coaching excellence and results. I do and will enjoy the six titles.

My mindset is that a coaching change gives UW the best chance to excel and get #7. What are you actually suggesting the administration do to "make hockey a priority" and magically create the consistent hockey success at UW of years past? What is it that Barry and Company should do that will change things? I'll give you a hint, its starts with the coaching staff.

My mindset is exactly like those at Minnesota. Don't gopher fans expect a contender every year? Don't they expect to have teams competing for conference and national titles? If Minnesota wants to deem itself a "hockey school" that's great, but administrations don't build title winning teams...coaches do. Are you going to tell me Norwood Teague and crew were the reason for their recent success?

And BTW, are you seriously arguing that football and basketball schools like Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State, cannot have competitive, contending programs because they their administrations place an emphasis on football and basketball? I think that argument is a non-starter.

Wisconsin Hockey: Interesting Perspectives.

I am also not meaning to be antagonistic at all, just throwing thoughts out there.

 

[Almington]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

While I am getting a kick out of watching Dubbs and the group snipe at him, I'll throw my opinion out there.

I think you hit it right here. Culture is the issue at UW which is one of the main reasons for a sustained slip. UW hockey does not have the same die hard fan base that other sports at UW or other schools have. Not saying they are not out there, but they are far fewer in comparison to MN or UND. Barry knows this so he has realized he can neglect hockey without too many people noticing or caring. And that's exactly what is gonig on. Because of that right there, it goes a long way to neutralize any of the other things you list as advantages. Unless you are assured of making the NHL, you want to play in front of a passionate die hard crowd and play for hardware. Future NHL players don't care as much because they are just using college as a stepping stone.

Alvarez and the rest of his minions in the athletic department have been able to more or less ignore hockey and its generally lackluster results over the last 7 seasons because UW had a core of diehard hockey fans who were willing to stick by the team regardless of the on-ice product. Had UW been more successful over the past few seasons I doubt that the hockey program would be on the radar of nearly anyone in the AD. The problem is that the lack of on-ice success coupled with a generalized appearance of apathy and neglect from the powers that be in the Athletic Department are turning off these die-hard fans. This has really become apparent in the rapid decline of the gameday atmosphere at the KC over this season and the previous one. While mettling is bad when the program is successful, apathy is far worse when the program is floundering (as it currently appears to be).

I think that the FIRST priority for any recruit is to play at a program where they have a chance to win. The SECOND priority is to play at a place with a great atmosphere. If you assume that all the top programs are about equal in the odds of winning, the atmosphere becomes the major tiebreaker. Thus, a declining atmosphere becomes are death spiral as the top recruits chose to go elsewhere because of atmosphere, lower level recruits decreases your chances of winning which reduces your atmosphere and hurts recruiting which results in more losses as the program spirals towards mediocrity. In fact, it's painfully obvious that UW is caught in this death spiral currently and can only get out of it by making a major change to reinvigorate the fanbase and get a new coach who can hopefully return UW to winning ways on a regular basis. (the spiral works in the opposite direction also)

All those other advantages that UW have make great tiebreakers, they are completely worthless if you lose the recruit outright to other programs because they have a much higher likelihood of having on-ice success.

 

[Innova]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

So who should we get for a replacement for Eaves? Will Alvarez use a search committee? Oh Yeah....

"I won't use a search committee," Alvarez said Thursday. "Most search committees use me."

 

[oldtyme25]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

You all have made some interesting points, but what you are missing, is that just like all other D1 sports it all comes down to recruiting. Eaves had some early success with the players he brought from the NTDP (Earl, Dowell and Suter) and then lived off the high end D-men who came in during the Oz tenure. Now that Oz is gone you are not seeing those first and second round NHL picked D-men coming to campus. When you had that core of defensemen, you could get away with having only a couple high end forwards and a lot of grinders. Add those issues to the large number of recruiting mistakes he has had from the state of Wisconsin (and the high end guys who went else where) and you have a recipe for the disaster you call a team.

 

[oldtyme25]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

Alvarez and the rest of his minions in the athletic department have been able to more or less ignore hockey and its generally lackluster results over the last 7 seasons because UW had a core of diehard hockey fans who were willing to stick by the team regardless of the on-ice product. Had UW been more successful over the past few seasons I doubt that the hockey program would be on the radar of nearly anyone in the AD. The problem is that the lack of on-ice success coupled with a generalized appearance of apathy and neglect from the powers that be in the Athletic Department are turning off these die-hard fans. This has really become apparent in the rapid decline of the gameday atmosphere at the KC over this season and the previous one. While mettling is bad when the program is successful, apathy is far worse when the program is floundering (as it currently appears to be).

I think that the FIRST priority for any recruit is to play at a program where they have a chance to win. The SECOND priority is to play at a place with a great atmosphere. If you assume that all the top programs are about equal in the odds of winning, the atmosphere becomes the major tiebreaker. Thus, a declining atmosphere becomes are death spiral as the top recruits chose to go elsewhere because of atmosphere, lower level recruits decreases your chances of winning which reduces your atmosphere and hurts recruiting which results in more losses as the program spirals towards mediocrity. In fact, it's painfully obvious that UW is caught in this death spiral currently and can only get out of it by making a major change to reinvigorate the fanbase and get a new coach who can hopefully return UW to winning ways on a regular basis. (the spiral works in the opposite direction also)

All those other advantages that UW have make great tiebreakers, they are completely worthless if you lose the recruit outright to other programs because they have a much higher likelihood of having on-ice success.

Best post I have read about the Wisconsin program on this board all season!!

 

[Almington]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

You all have made some interesting points, but what you are missing, is that just like all other D1 sports it all comes down to recruiting. Eaves had some early success with the players he brought from the NTDP (Earl, Dowell and Suter) and then lived off the high end D-men who came in during the Oz tenure. Now that Oz is gone you are not seeing those first and second round NHL picked D-men coming to campus. When you had that core of defensemen, you could get away with having only a couple high end forwards and a lot of grinders. Add those issues to the large number of recruiting mistakes he has had from the state of Wisconsin (and the high end guys who went else where) and you have a recipe for the disaster you call a team.

Hiring Butters as Oz's replacement was, from this fan's view, a complete and utter mistake. The fact that UW doesn't have the proper level of offensive ability on the blueline this season is a result of that decision.

 

[oldtyme25]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

Add that issue to the reputation Eaves teams have and you will always have a uphill battle trying to convince high end forwards with NHL aspirations that Wisco is their next stepping stone.

 

[Almington]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

Manifesto of UW Hockey Fans

Us fans of UW hockey expect a winning program: we expect a program with UW's history and resources to compete on an annual basis for conference and national championships. We recognize that this will not happen each and every season, but failing to compete should be the exception.

Other programs winning recruiting battles, having on-ice success, or receiving full and unconditional support from their administration has never been considered the causes for UW's struggles. The issues are not external, but INTERNAL to the UW hockey program:

1.) We are upset with an Athletic Director and athletic department that appears to be apathetic and neglectful attitude towards the state of the hockey program.

2.) We are upset with a Head Coach and hockey staff that appears unable to utilize the top level resources that they are given and the talent that they are able to recruit to produce maximum on-ice success.

It has become clearly apparent that the ONLY way to get the attention of decision makers and get the change in OUR program that we want is to stop supporting the program financially. That does not mean that we no longer support the program overall or that we are fair weather fans because this is taken as an action of last resort.

The remedy to reengaging us disaffected fans is:

1.) A complete change in Head Coach and hockey staff. After 10+ seasons it is clear that these people are unable to elevate the UW hockey program to a consistent level of success that is acceptable given the resources at their disposal.

2.) A commitment by the university and the athletic department as to the value of the hockey program, including but not limited to: 1.) playing all regular season games at the Kohl Center in the future, 2.) regular practice time at the Kohl Center, and 3.) recognition that long term mediocrity is NOT acceptable for the UW hockey program and the loyalty of the fans is abused by accepting such.

 

[WiscTJK]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

Alvarez and the rest of his minions in the athletic department have been able to more or less ignore hockey and its generally lackluster results over the last 7 seasons because UW had a core of diehard hockey fans who were willing to stick by the team regardless of the on-ice product. Had UW been more successful over the past few seasons I doubt that the hockey program would be on the radar of nearly anyone in the AD. The problem is that the lack of on-ice success coupled with a generalized appearance of apathy and neglect from the powers that be in the Athletic Department are turning off these die-hard fans. This has really become apparent in the rapid decline of the gameday atmosphere at the KC over this season and the previous one. While mettling is bad when the program is successful, apathy is far worse when the program is floundering (as it currently appears to be).

I think that the FIRST priority for any recruit is to play at a program where they have a chance to win. The SECOND priority is to play at a place with a great atmosphere. If you assume that all the top programs are about equal in the odds of winning, the atmosphere becomes the major tiebreaker. Thus, a declining atmosphere becomes are death spiral as the top recruits chose to go elsewhere because of atmosphere, lower level recruits decreases your chances of winning which reduces your atmosphere and hurts recruiting which results in more losses as the program spirals towards mediocrity. In fact, it's painfully obvious that UW is caught in this death spiral currently and can only get out of it by making a major change to reinvigorate the fanbase and get a new coach who can hopefully return UW to winning ways on a regular basis. (the spiral works in the opposite direction also)

All those other advantages that UW have make great tiebreakers, they are completely worthless if you lose the recruit outright to other programs because they have a much higher likelihood of having on-ice success.

Excellent post. Send that to the athletic department.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

Manifesto of UW Hockey Fans

Us fans of UW hockey expect a winning program: we expect a program with UW's history and resources to compete on an annual basis for conference and national championships. We recognize that this will not happen each and every season, but failing to compete should be the exception.

Other programs winning recruiting battles, having on-ice success, or receiving full and unconditional support from their administration has never been considered the causes for UW's struggles. The issues are not external, but INTERNAL to the UW hockey program:

1.) We are upset with an Athletic Director and athletic department that appears to be apathetic and neglectful attitude towards the state of the hockey program.

2.) We are upset with a Head Coach and hockey staff that appears unable to utilize the top level resources that they are given and the talent that they are able to recruit to produce maximum on-ice success.

It has become clearly apparent that the ONLY way to get the attention of decision makers and get the change in OUR program that we want is to stop supporting the program financially. That does not mean that we no longer support the program overall or that we are fair weather fans because this is taken as an action of last resort.

The remedy to reengaging us disaffected fans is:

1.) A complete change in Head Coach and hockey staff. After 10+ seasons it is clear that these people are unable to elevate the UW hockey program to a consistent level of success that is acceptable given the resources at their disposal.

2.) A commitment by the university and the athletic department as to the value of the hockey program, including but not limited to: 1.) playing all regular season games at the Kohl Center in the future, 2.) regular practice time at the Kohl Center, and 3.) recognition that long term mediocrity is NOT acceptable for the UW hockey program and the loyalty of the fans is abused by accepting such.

all of your posts are right on. and the one quoted above really should be sent to Barry. I work with a relative of his (I won't say who or who close they are to Barry)...I intentionally bring up Hockey every chance I get... for instance me last week "did you go to Soldier Field?" the response "what? hey, how about that basketball game!" trust me this person is close on the family tree and their reaction confirms what we've all been able to see from a distance as Hockey fans

to the poster who mentioned times have changed (when I said UW hasn't been a power in 18 years)...yes they've changed. but we still have NCAA Hockey powers, they are UND, MN, BC, DU with Michigan, UNH and BU generally not that far off.

 

[Hammy]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

Hiring Butters as Oz's replacement was, from this fan's view, a complete and utter mistake. The fact that UW doesn't have the proper level of offensive ability on the blueline this season is a result of that decision.

I called it the day Butters was hired. Never understood what the hell Eaves was thinking about there.

I do think a good degree of the success of Eaves was tied to Osiecki. When you have a very good second in command, it makes the job so much easier for a head coach. We've seen the difference in Minnesota when they dumped Hill and brought Guentzel back. It's been a night and day difference. Particularly in defensive play and recruiting.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

I called it the day Butters was hired. Never understood what the hell Eaves was thinking about there.

None of us did either.

To be honest, I thought/think that Shuchuk was a curious choice too.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

None of us did either.

To be honest, I thought/think that Shuchuk was a curious choice too.

Me too, considering Shuchuk had little to no coaching experience. On the other hand, he did actually play with Gretzky for a bit in LA. So, you know... Gretzky.

I like the guy. He may be awesome or horrible as a coach though, I have no idea.

 

[Gandalf the Red]

I called it the day Butters was hired. Never understood what the hell Eaves was thinking about there.

I do think a good degree of the success of Eaves was tied to Osiecki. When you have a very good second in command, it makes the job so much easier for a head coach. We've seen the difference in Minnesota when they dumped Hill and brought Guentzel back. It's been a night and day difference. Particularly in defensive play and recruiting.

I have certainly noticed the turn around on D for the gophers since Hill was canned, and I'm not happy about it. Why are your goalies not letting in softies from the red line anymore either?

Eaves has struck out so many times the last few seasons w/ choices. And what is he going to do this off season (if he isn't fired) w/ the defense? Stick w/ Walsh or find a stud to FINALLY replace Oz.