WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

[JDUBBS1280]

you dont need conference hardware to be national champions......

I never said you did. It is a good outlier for consistency though. And let's be honest, it's not like UW has been raking in the national titles the last 20 years. They have capitalized when they have been close, but those years have been much fewer and farther between than other programs it considers its peers.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

There is not a simple explanation (the lack of sucess relative to expectations at a school like UW). Hockey has slipped down the totem pole as football and basketball has risen in prominence, while money has poured into new facilities for basketball and renovations of Camp Randall (and no the Kohl is not there because of hockey and hockey is a mere afterthought often bounced for womans basketball and freaking high school wrestling), hockey has largely been ignored until the construction of LaBahn. The fact that the mens program was practicing in the Collosium for as long as they were is an embarassment. One of the bigger problems has been the uneven classes where it is feast of famine of either a veteran team or one devoid of virtually any upperclassmen (we are heading for that crash again in 2 seasons)...and Eaves has had a decade to fix that and has not. There has been a talent issue as well. While Eaves has gotten his share and done particularly well with Dmen recruits...he is always missing an elite forward or two and the goalies between Elliott and Rumpel have been mediocre at best. There has rarely been enough scoring depth and that only gets compounded when guys like Turris, Stepan, Smith, or Murray leave a year sooner then hoped/expected.

At the end of the day, the buck stops with Eaves and the results speak for themselves. In 11 years, no conference season or tourney championships, rarely in the tourney, and mediocrity at best. This trainwreck is on par with the end of the Barney era.

While you can argue Wisconsin's entitlement, please list how many teams have more advantages then Wisconsin in the college hockey world? There are certainly schools that do....North Dakota, Minnesota, BC....but there are not 14 programs (figure with 2 autobids....you only have to be in the top 14 to make the tourney) where Wisconsin should not be in the tourney at the least most years instead of rarely which is what we have evolved into.

There are at least ten teams in college hockey today that put as much resources (or close enough) into their hockey programs to be considered equals to UW in that Dept. UND, UMN, Miami, Notre Dame, UNH, BC, BU, UMD, DU, Michigan State, etc...

UMD, BSU, Notre Dame, UNO soon, etc... all have or are getting new arenas. Schools like UNO, SCSU, UMD don't have as much resources as UW, but hockey is king at those schools. It's what made UND so successful.

Then, with the parity in college hockey there seems to be more and more smaller programs being competitive.

It's not like UW is in the back-yard of a major recruiting market, getting all those top recruits, and then failing to win. UW is having to compete with more and more programs for top recruits, and is losing more recruiting battles than before. That's why the entitlement act is kind of a joke. Especially when the sport isn't as big of a priority for the administration anymore.

 

[markwojo]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

you dont need conference hardware to be national champions......

Point was already made, but I'll repeat it. Conference success is a sign of excellence in the program. Lack of really ANY conference success is indicative of the state of the program under Eaves.

 

[Almington]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

Point was already made, but I'll repeat it. Conference success is a sign of excellence in the program. Lack of really ANY conference success is indicative of the state of the program under Eaves.

The Badger have only 4 F5 appearances making ZERO title games with Eaves as the coach. Yuck.

 

[markwojo]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

There are at least ten teams in college hockey today that put as much resources (or close enough) into their hockey programs to be considered equals to UW in that Dept. UND, UMN, Miami, Notre Dame, UNH, BC, BU, UMD, DU, Michigan State, etc...

Then, with the parity in college hockey there seems to be more and more smaller programs being competitive.

It's not like UW is in the back-yard of a major recruiting market, getting all those top recruits, and then failing to win. UW is having to compete with more and more programs for top recruits, and is losing more recruiting battles than before. That's why the entitlement act is kind of a joke. Especially when the sport isn't as big of a priority for the administration anymore.

That's not the 14 needed to keep UW out of the tourney and some on your list in comparison to UW are dubious. Notre Dame with their brand new shiny 5000 seat arena is not on par with Wisconsin when it comes to hockey. The fact that there is even a slight possibility of that being debateable is a testimony to why Eaves must go. No history. No local recruiting base.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

That's not the 14 needed to keep UW out of the tourney and some on your list in comparison to UW are dubious. Notre Dame with their brand new shiny 5000 seat arena is not on par with Wisconsin when it comes to hockey. The fact that there is even a slight possibility of that being debateable is a testimony to why Eaves must go. No history. No local recruiting base.

When you consider the increasing parity in college hockey and how much more successful smaller programs are getting, as well as how the Pairwise works, it certainly is enough.

UW isn't a Top 10 team this year, but do you really think they are the 29th best team in college hockey? I don't.

I just think it's foolish to act entitled to consistent success when the program isn't the #1 priority at the school and they import so much of their talent.

Name me one other school that relies on importing as many high-end recruits (not just role players) and hockey isn't the primary focal point of the school's athletic department.

OSU comes to mind.

Now name me any that have been consistently successful with that formula recently. I can't think of any.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

I agree, not saying it's impossible to be successful at both sports. But look at Michigan, the school you used as an example. They had a 17 year tournament drought at one time. Granted, they have been a model of consistency lately, but it just goes to show that few programs, if any, are immune to down periods.

One big advantage that Michigan also has that UW doesn't is being in the flagship program in one of this country's most fertile recruiting grounds. They get a ton of top kids just because they grew up Michigan fans.

We've seen a lot of success recently at smaller schools where hockey is the school's primary (or in some cases only) D1 sport. These schools prioritize hockey and put a lot of emphasis on their programs. Inversely, we have seen a lot of the big schools where hockey isn't the only big show on campus struggle more than they have in the past.

Minnesota had a 3-4 year down stretch, Michigan is horrible this year, and UW has been struggling as of late. These schools are just not guaranteed to be successful year-in and year-out any longer with the parity in college hockey.

I think it has been a bit easier for Michigan and Minnesota to minimize the down-swings because of the recruiting advantage I discussed earlier. UW will have some really great years moving forward, but unless they change the perception of just being a school with hockey instead of a hockey school, I don't think they'll see the same consistency they have seen in the past.

Using Michigan as an example of futility at a Football/ bouncyball school is ridiculous as they haven't missed the tournament in 22 years. It illustrates the exact opposite of what you're saying. Just because UW has a successful Football and Bouncy program in no way diminishes the ability of the Hockey program to excel. Just the opposite. UW has a $127 million AD budget this year. ($49 million more than MN's btw.) The facilities and the staff of the UW AD are excellent and a portion of that benefits all UW student athletes.

There are plenty of recruits anxious to play at UW, for example Grant Besse certainly doesn't share your opinion of Hockey falling by the wayside at Bucky U. Rather the unbalancing of classes has left WI with just a couple of scholarships available and it continues to cause this yo-yo'ing in performance year over year. No doubt there is more parity nationwide, but arguing that UW ceases to be a hockey destination or that the AD will just let the program collapse indefinitely is just silly. Changes may not come as quickly as fans might like, but one way or another changes will come and UW will compete for NC again in the near future.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

Wisko -

I suggest you go back and re-read (or perhaps actually read) my post as I discussed that.

As for UW, name me one other school who's primary focus isn't on hockey, that relies on importing as much top talent, that has been consistently good recently.

There aren't very many top recruits who grew up as Badger fans (relatively speaking), and UW is competing for recruits elsewhere against more and more successful programs. Not a great model for consistency, and not a great rational for entitlement.

 

[WiscTJK]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

I have already had the season ticket conversation with myself. I decided to keep my friday tix because I really like the location and I can just go downtown after work, but if my friend who I share saturday tix w/ says he doesn't want to renew, I'm not going to make a big deal out of it. I'll buy minnesota tickets right away, and then decide if I want to attend any other saturday games.

I use to plan my entire winter around Badger Hockey weekends, and over the past 3 years I've found it impossible to do that anymore, and I don't even have kids or anything like that. The product on the ice isn't making it any harder on me either, as I don't feel like I'm going to miss anything by not being there. I know I've become a less than stellar fan, but I'm ok with that.

Gandalf, I am very much in the same situation as you. I have Friday night seats with some college buddies and those we will continue. My Saturday seats are when I take my kids and they really don't enjoy the games like I do. They have more fun going to the La Bahn arena and watching the Women's games. So I won't say yet what I am going to do. I will wait and see what end of the year changes are made and next years schedule to make my final decision.

 

[Gandalf the Red]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

Wisko -

I suggest you go back and re-read (or perhaps actually read) my post as I discussed that.

As for UW, name me one other school who's primary focus isn't on hockey, that relies on importing as much top talent, that has been consistently good recently.

There aren't very many top recruits who grew up as Badger fans (relatively speaking), and UW is competing for recruits elsewhere against more and more successful programs. Not a great model for consistency, and not a great rational for entitlement.

North Dakota is just loaded w/ local hockey talent...same w/ Miami (OH)...northern Indiana, especially the South Bend area is just a hockey hotbed right now, so hot the globe is warming rapidly and human life is in peril.

Sure a lot of kids grew up as North Dakota fans, but they are certainly importing talent into their system. A lot Canadians join the lgm. Same w/ Denver. Get your head out of your ***, there is no other school like minnesota where hockey is king in their state and a good majority of the kids dream (foolishly) of being skating rodents someday. I think you are the one w/ an unrealistic view of how recruiting works for the rest of DI hockey, because minnesota is really the only school w/ a built in advantage, even over the other state schools fighting for recruits. And I'm not complaining about the advantage, good for them, but it is what it is, and no one else has that going, even Michigan or BC. Michigan has profitted nicely from the USNTDP being located in the same place.

6 > 5

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

Gandalf -

UND's primary athletic emphasis is on hockey. They are a smaller school with less resources that IS considered a hockey school that has been beating UW out for non-local recruits more often than not. Thank you for proving my point.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

I'd say the closest thing to a non-hockey school who relies on non-local recruits having consistent success would be Notre Dame. And I'm not convinced they will always be consistently competitive long-term and their fans certainly don't seem to feel entitled to consistent success.

I don't point these things out to troll. Just offering a different perspective. Maybe just maybe what Barry has done to change the perspective of UW as just a school with hockey instead of a hockey school has a little bit more to do with UW's recruiting struggles than people here care to admit.

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

The issue is how Eaves handles the talent that he gets into the program. One National title, Two Frozen Four Appearances, ZERO Final Five Titles, ZERO Regular Season titles, 5 NCAA bids and an overall 0.550 winning percentage in 10 Years.

Eaves runs the program like a professional hockey organization, where each player is brought in to fill a very specific roll and then Eaves develops that player to fill that specific role. Thus by the time they are seniors they fill those roles with excellence (or they don't play). The problem is that not every player can make the transition to the next level (particularly in an offensive role) and when Eaves "misses" on one of the players he has counted on for offensive production their is no one of the team who can step up to fill the missing production because that is not what they are trained to do. For the most part, Eaves led teams are lacking in secondary scoring.

Even with UW's administration not making Hockey it's #1 priority, it is still putting more resources towards the program than 90+% of all the other schools. If the administration is guilty of anything it is being far to laissez-faire attitude towards the program and apathetic with regards to the results provided that revenue didn't decline and no NCAA violations were committed.

Thanks for the response. That makes some sense.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

Wisko -

I suggest you go back and re-read (or perhaps actually read) my post as I discussed that.

As for UW, name me one other school who's primary focus isn't on hockey, that relies on importing as much top talent, that has been consistently good recently.

There aren't very many top recruits who grew up as Badger fans (relatively speaking), and UW is competing for recruits elsewhere against more and more successful programs. Not a great model for consistency, and not a great rational for entitlement.

You put too many qualifiers on your question. How many D-1 programs have there ever been period, outside of WI that fit into that description? It's no measure when there are but a handful of programs that fit your qualifiers. When high school hockey was nearly non-existant in WI outside of Madison and tiny Eagle River, the program did just fine.

Wisconsin being a hotbed of hockey or not, you seem to be arguing in total, that UW is, or will be, losing out on recruits to all these small programs because in your opinion, Hockey is not as important any more at UW. I see little or no evidence of that. We've missed a few kids to big time programs as always, sure, but I don't see that we've missed on many guys we really want, and we're not losing them to UNO or BSU. Perhaps you can show me where I'm wrong there.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

Wisko - Wisconsin, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Michigan State to some extent.

And you have been losing out on recruits. How about the Schmaltz brothers, how about McKoshen, etc...

There are plenty of other examples. UW can't rely on getting enough top-tier recruits in their back-yard. They need to compete nationally for recruits with the likes of UND, DU, Miami, UNO, etc.... All have been consistently better, all are smaller schools, but all are considered "hockey schools".

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

I've said my piece. Feels like I'm beginning to beat a dead horse so I'll stop. Just a different perspective to consider. Hope you guys get things figured out somehow as the BTHC will be better with a strong UW. It just seems like approaching things the same way when the program hasn't been consistently competitive in 20 years is a mistake. I just don't think coaching is the only or primary problem. OSU has a great coach now and i have my doubts they will ever be consistently successful. The culture just isn't right there for hockey to thrive.

 

[TUSCHWI]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

Thanks for the response. That makes some sense.

That does make some sense. And lines up with what I see as the general perception that talented, skillful players that arrive here have their creativity squashed out of them by Eaves's system.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

Wisko - Wisconsin, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Michigan State to some extent.

And you have been losing out on recruits. How about the Schmaltz brothers, how about McKoshen, etc...

There are plenty of other examples. UW can't rely on getting enough top-tier recruits in their back-yard. They need to compete nationally for recruits with the likes of UND, DU, Miami, UNO, etc.... All have been consistently better, all are smaller schools, but all are considered "hockey schools".

So Michigan is in a hockey hotbed, but MI St isn't? Notre Dame is pretty successful lately. So that leaves OSU. You could be right, but I'd say that they are very heavy with Soph's and Oz recruited Freshman. Two years I think they will be in pretty good shape. Perhaps not. Still it's a pretty small group to try to make some sort of judgement about.


As I said, we always have lost some recruits to big time programs. So has MN. McCoshen to BC, the elite program in NCAA hockey the last ten years. Schmaltz was Oz's recruit and bailed on WI to UND when Oz left for OSU. But again, we're not losing out kids to smaller programs, and despite their competitiveness, I see no evidence that we will any time soon. We're also getting highly recruited kids.

UW has never relied on top recruits in our backyard. Ever. Mainly because until recently there weren't many. Again it is only MN that relies soley on that situation. Arguably if that were of such paramount importance to success, it seems to me MN would be in the FF every year. We have always recruited everywhere.

I get it that in your opinion because WI has very successful Football and Bouncy programs that somehow hockey is no longer important. I'm just saying that is not a widely held opinion of Wisconsin's hockey program around the country.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time

I've said my piece. Feels like I'm beginning to beat a dead horse so I'll stop.

You need to get back to finding Cross Cheque's tweets anyway.

How's that coming?

 

[JDUBBS1280]

You need to get back to finding Cross Cheque's tweets anyway.

How's that coming?

Sent them to him in a rep (positive to be nice ), so it's up to him to post. Posting someone's identity is a quick way to get banned and is a trap I would prefer to avoid

Cross Cheque is pretty quick to post pictures of others and make fun of them, so hopefully he's man enough to post these Tweets of his and have a laugh at himself.

Either way, he now knows it didn't go unnoticed. That's good enough for me