Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

The game has changed a LOT since the late 80's and early 90's too, scoring is much lower at nearly ALL levels of play. I guess that the players in the NHL just don't have the skill that the players in past have had. It's a much different case of having a underclassman step up due to graduations as opposed to expecting all freshmen to just step in a play like experienced juniors and seniors from day one (otherwise they are never going to be any more than a untalented grinder), for the vast majority of players that isn't the case and it's why most Freshmen and Sophomore play behind or with Juniors and Seniors. Uw doesn't have any upperclassmen, it's a baptism by fire for everyone on the team.

Just wanted to piggyback onto the last point. That's what makes this exciting from a fan perspective. The Badgers lose no one up front from this club. That's virtually unheard of. So all of these freshmen and sophomores gain a huge year of experience. Look at the jumps guys can make from year.

I hate to keep beating a dead horse on the recruits but Kerdiles could be a top 6 forward for the Badgers right now.

Wisconsin has a LEGIT top 6 when you add him into Zengerle, Barnes, Mersch, Lee, LaBate, and Lee next season. Even a third line with guys like Woods who is only going to get better, Zulinick, and maybe a guy like Navin who should take big steps isn't bad.

Throw a fourth line grind line of Ryan Little, Dahl, and Meuer and that's a pretty neat little club especially with wild cards like Jason Clark and Gavin Hartzog.

I apologize for the optimism.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

I'm just not sure your criticisms are necessarily always fair.

The Zent thing is one that I'm just confused about. Especially when our top forward recruits have been pretty impressive if you ask me.

12-Kerdiles
11-LaBate
10-Zengerle
09-C. Smith
09-Stepan
07-Turris
06-Geoffrion
05-Skille
04-Pavelski
03-Earl

The first 7 on the list have all played in the NHL.

There are some other things too. I mean it's hard to judge Brad Navin right now. He was scheduled to be a 2013 recruit when he commited. He was accellerated not just one, but TWO years to come in as an 18 year old freshman because USHL All-Star Cody Strang couldn't pass the NCAA Clearinghouse.

Clark missed the majority of last season and the start of this season due to reoccurring hip issues that resulted in two surgeries this summer. He also missed many games with a concussion this season. He was projected to be a top 6 type forward when he was brought in (and drafted pretty high in the NHL draft).

11 of the 12 forwards in the lineup tonight are freshmen or sophomores. Did you know that Blake Geoffrion, the same Blake Geoffrion that won a Hobey Baker at Wisconsin and has played in the NHL recorded 6 points as a freshman for the Badgers? Paape, LaBate, and Woods are all freshmen (in a terrible season for UW) and have eclipsed that total, and Navin likely will as well.

I'll give you Ramage, but to say that Faust and Simonelli haven't improved is silly to me. Especially Simonelli...sure he's playing with Schultz...but there's a reason he's playing with Schultz and it's because he's one of the top blue-liners on this team right now. Simonelli has already gotten to 15 points this year and is second on the team at +8. How has he not taken strides?

I mean this was expected to be a down year, it's not exactly fair to compare lines from a National Championship team.

trust me I'm 100% hoping I'm wrong and you're right. that would be the best possible outcome. This fan is looking forward to #7

 

[Almington]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

Wisconsin has a LEGIT top 6 when you add him into Zengerle, Barnes, Mersch, Lee, LaBate, and Lee next season. Even a third line with guys like Woods who is only going to get better, Zulinick, and maybe a guy like Navin who should take big steps isn't bad.

Is the true reason that Lee is out of the lin-up so much this year because Eaves is secretly cloning him in a hidden lab under the Kohl Center?

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

Is the true reason that Lee is out of the lin-up so much this year because Eaves is secretly cloning him in a hidden lab under the Kohl Center?

Oh man...typo's FTW. Yikes Chuck.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

Season can't end soon enough.

This team is actually worse now than it was in November.

Mersch is John Scott slow. Have you guys seen him in person? Looks like he's pulling a sled out there. I guarantee that I'm faster than he is although of course he'd bury me in the corners. He looked woefully out of shape tonight.

The shot total tonight might seem to indicate that we were in this game, but being there, it never felt like we had a realistic chance. I think they're burnt out and some are possibly losing their focus and desire.

Even Schultz seemed off his game. Passed up on a few opportunities to shoot and jump into the play. Zengerle couldn't get anything going.

What a blah game.

Glad we can't get home ice. I'll take the $160 back, thanks!

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

Season can't end soon enough.

This team is actually worse now than it was in November.

Mersch is John Scott slow. Have you guys seen him in person? Looks like he's pulling a sled out there. I guarantee that I'm faster than he is although of course he'd bury me in the corners. He looked woefully out of shape tonight.

The shot total tonight might seem to indicate that we were in this game, but being there, it never felt like we had a realistic chance. I think they're burnt out and some are possibly losing their focus and desire.

Even Schultz seemed off his game. Passed up on a few opportunities to shoot and jump into the play. Zengerle couldn't get anything going.

What a blah game.

Glad we can't get home ice. I'll take the $160 back, thanks!

very much why I'm worried for next year, as well as what I've been hammering on for 2-3 weeks now. I'm just not sure guys like Mersch and Barnes are as good as we had been thinking they were. they're more like 3rd line guys yet they're playing on line 1 and/or 2. and the rest are really not impressing me this year.

to quote L. Ulrich in "Some Kind of Monster" FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKkkkk!"

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

Wow, that was bad. When's the last time you guys saw a team so eager and happy to be forced to the perimeter? And the lack of possession or any fluidity to the passing game... yuck.

Chuck, help us. How are we supposed to see a bright future with a group of players that can't even hold on to the puck?

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

What a bummer about Rumpel. Hopefully the laceration isn't too deep and there isn't any muscle damage. The 3 laceration injuries UW has had this year are 2 more than I've seen in total following UW hockey for 25 yrs.

I agree early departures have gutted this team, Baggott's article pretty much spells out that UW has lost more players than any team team over the last few years. Another issue is the large current So. class, other than Zengerlee, lack an impact player. 1 great player out of a class that big is a long term blow to success. The Fr class also lacks an impact player, other than maybe McCabe. By impact I mean a player who can change make a difference now, not in 2-3 yrs. Supposedly the upcoming Fr class has impact players. I'm excited to find out.

Mersch maybe slow, but he is the kind of guy who seems to have a good nose for scoring chances. Barnes has fallen off the face of the earth. He's skating hard and all, he's just not close to a scoring situation very often.

Missing Lee for large stretches hasn't helped either. Early in the season he looked like an impact player.

Meuer seems like he's coming along.

Navin just seems invisible out there. Paape and Woods seem to be in the play often.

As far as specifically last night, what were we expecting missing the 2 and 3 centers? UW had 3 golden chances they didn't convert and a bone-head play led to 1 DU goal. That game could have easily been a 3-1 UW win.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

Another thing. About the past 10 years...

Other than actually winning in 06, it pretty much mirrors Sauer's last 10 years.

5 NCAA appearances and season records that are all over the map. Yes, Eaves has a title and that's huge (although I credit Burish and the other seniors for that as much as Eaves), but other than that, pretty much the same.

And before anyone mentions the other title game that Eaves got to, if you don't win the whole thing, it's just an NCAA appearance. Losing 5-0 after beating RIT to get there is nothing to hang your hat on.

Back to what I was getting at. Many don't respect Sauer's legacy because of his last ten years with us. Eaves has pretty much mirrored it. Will one title be enough? What if Eaves doesn't get another? Will the apologists still keep him on the pedestal?

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

Also - for those who choose to explain away our recent difficulties...

Yes, early departures and coaching changes matter. The problem I have with this is that we were having this exact, word for word, same debate in this forum in and around '08.

At that time we eventually chalked up the post championship downturn to Eaves needing to figure out how to deal with early departures and how to balance classes. We were convinced that he'd do better in the future.

Well, here we are again in the exact same spot due to the exact same things that happened after 2006.

Either Eaves did not learn, or he's incapable of managing these factors.

I'm excited for the next two years, but what about the years after those? We have 20 underclassmen. What happens when 20 upperclassmen age out in 3 years?

This could become a bad cycle and I'd like to think that Eaves will be capable of handling it, but there's nothing in his tenure to suggest that he will be able to.

So there!

 

[Buck 'em]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

As far as specifically last night, what were we expecting missing the 2 and 3 centers? UW had 3 golden chances they didn't convert and a bone-head play led to 1 DU goal. That game could have easily been a 3-1 UW win.

That's exactly what I saw.

Schultz looked gassed by the end of the game. Seems like he's doing everything but running the Zamboni.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

As far as specifically last night, what were we expecting missing the 2 and 3 centers? UW had 3 golden chances they didn't convert and a bone-head play led to 1 DU goal. That game could have easily been a 3-1 UW win.

That's the thing, the past two games could easily have been Wisconsin wins. The only time I have a beef is when there isn't an effort like last Friday night. Other then that, I'm willing to fight through this.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

Another thing. About the past 10 years...

Other than actually winning in 06, it pretty much mirrors Sauer's last 10 years.

5 NCAA appearances and season records that are all over the map. Yes, Eaves has a title and that's huge (although I credit Burish and the other seniors for that as much as Eaves), but other than that, pretty much the same.

And before anyone mentions the other title game that Eaves got to, if you don't win the whole thing, it's just an NCAA appearance. Losing 5-0 after beating RIT to get there is nothing to hang your hat on.

Back to what I was getting at. Many don't respect Sauer's legacy because of his last ten years with us. Eaves has pretty much mirrored it. Will one title be enough? What if Eaves doesn't get another? Will the apologists still keep him on the pedestal?

agree w/everything you've said in these last 2 posts. and when you think about it, that must make recruiting very difficult. Wisconsin hasn't been in a POWER in NCAA Men's Hockey since 1993 if you want to look at it that way (and I generally do), meaning a year in and year out threat for the top3-4 in the WCHA and annual NCAA competitor's. they've essentially got Sauer's last 10 years and Eaves' entire tenure where the team has been jeckly and hyde and for kids today looking at the program they may not see UW as a powerhouse...why would they?

that's an ominous point you make about all these sophs and frosh graduating and how they're replaced...but we'll see how that plays out a bit later. what I'm worried about is talent on the roster now...as TimothyA alluded to, the sophs only have Zengerle, the frosh only McCabe. I think the dearth of talent on this team is bigger than some have been acknowledging including Baggot.

Seniors and Juniors don't win because they've got experience alone. Remember Troy Howard, Scott Swanson, Erik Raygor? yeah, not a lot of talent there but they were a huge SR class. no, upperclassmen provide the difference in a playoff atmosphere or between 26 wins vs say 21-22. I really want to believe Chuck and Almington, but the way I'm seeing it now, this next class is going to have to contain Dany Heatley and Chris Chelios and even then those are guys that will elevate the team but also mask big problems. Remember Heatley's 2nd season? that could be what next season will be like...

sorry to be all scoobs on here but...frosh and sophs can't explain 12 wins to me that excuse just doesn't cut it.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

Don't worry Solo. The Badgers should be a formidable team in a few years. I think next year will still involve some growing pains, but they will be far more competitive.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

Don't worry Solo. The Badgers should be a formidable team in a few years. I think next year will still involve some growing pains, but they will be far more competitive.

thanks, I'm hoping you're right and Chuck as well.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

If people here think that the only two players with talent coming back are Mark Zengerle and Jake McCabe, then there are issues here further than evaluating hockey talent.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

If people here think that the only two players with talent coming back are Mark Zengerle and Jake McCabe, then there are issues here further than evaluating hockey talent.

that's a pretty snide remark Chuck. settle down a bit. people can have opinions and sometimes they don't agree with you or your assessment. deal with it.

EDIT - also, the quote was "IMPACT" player per class, and yes Zengerle and McCabe are the ones who fit that bill. no others in the frosh or soph class. that would seem pretty accurate.

 

[wjefwhite]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

that's a pretty snide remark Chuck. settle down a bit. people can have opinions and sometimes they don't agree with you or your assessment. deal with it.

EDIT - also, the quote was "IMPACT" player per class, and yes Zengerle and McCabe are the ones who fit that bill. no others in the frosh or soph class. that would seem pretty accurate.

It gets old reading the same people post doom and gloom over and over again. This is college athletics. Things change and in a hurry. This year is done. Get over it and move on. Going tonight to support the Red win or lose. Leave the *****ing to

professional athletics.These kids deserve better. Eaves is not the problem. You could get a life and do something else with your time.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

It gets old reading the same people post doom and gloom over and over again. This is college athletics. Things change and in a hurry. This year is done. Get over it and move on. Going tonight to support the Red win or lose. Leave the *****ing to

professional athletics.These kids deserve better. Eaves is not the problem. You could get a life and do something else with your time.

So, he's not entitled to an opinion, or allowed to vent his frustrations? And when did he say he didn't support his team, win or lose? Maybe he just likes to be honest about the situation. If you don't like to hear what he has to say, maybe it's you who should "do something else with your time".

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

So, he's not entitled to an opinion, or allowed to vent his frustrations? And when did he say he didn't support his team, win or lose? Maybe he just likes to be honest about the situation. If you don't like to hear what he has to say, maybe it's you who should "do something else with your time".

this.

thanks