Wisconsin Hockey Part 2 - No Silly Eaves-isms, Just Win The Title!

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 2 - No Silly Eaves-isms, Just Win The Title!

Using the 2006 championship team as a template for how this seasons, or future Badger teams are going to do in the NCAA tournament is the wrong way to go about things.

Lock this in your brains, the 2009 team is a different type of team than the 2006 team.

Everyone is right, we're not as strong in goal and in the defensive zone as we were when we won in 2006. But the 2006 team isn't even close to as good offensively as we are this season, especially from the blueline.

This team is averaging 4.00 goals per game. That's second in the entire country. The 2006 team averaged only 3.37 goals per game.

This team is giving up 2.58 goals per game. The 2006 team gave up 1.84 goals per game.

Goal differential/Game
2010:1.42
2006:1.53

Overall, the bottom line difference is very close. We don't need Gudmandson to play like Brian Elliott to win a championship. But he does need to play better...

 

[aktick]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 2 - No Silly Eaves-isms, Just Win The Title!

Chuck, I think most of us just know it's generally more important to play quality D and have good goaltending in playoff hockey than it is to have a great offense.

We aren't infants, we know this is a different team than 2006...

 

[RedFreak]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 2 - No Silly Eaves-isms, Just Win The Title!

Chuck, I think most of us just know it's generally more important to play quality D and have good goaltending in playoff hockey than it is to have a great offense.

We aren't infants, we know this is a different team than 2006...

Amen. This has nothing to do with 2006.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 2 - No Silly Eaves-isms, Just Win The Title!

My concern with this team in comparison to the 2006 team is the pervasive lack of consistency. I don't remember the 2006 team having these troubles other than when Els was out and championship teams are usually consistent in their effort.

 

[RedFreak]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 2 - No Silly Eaves-isms, Just Win The Title!

My concern with this team in comparison to the 2006 team is the pervasive lack of consistency. I don't remember the 2006 team having these troubles other than when Els was out and championship teams are usually consistent in their effort.

On the topic of the 2006 team, I think this is correct. And I'd further say that what defense provides is a measure of consistency not provided by offense.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 2 - No Silly Eaves-isms, Just Win The Title!

And I'd further say that what defense provides is a measure of consistency not provided by offense.

Excellent post. A consistant D means you could win every game you play, even if you only score 2-3 goals that night. Over the last 11 games, UW is allowing 3.27 ga.

 

[Almington]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 2 - No Silly Eaves-isms, Just Win The Title!

Excellent post. A consistant D means you could win every game you play, even if you only score 2-3 goals that night. Over the last 11 games, UW is allowing 3.27 ga.

On the flip side, A consistent offense means that you could win every game that you play, even if you give up 3 or 4 goals.

It is important to separate an effective/efficient offense or defense with a consistent one. An offense that scores 2 goals each and every game or a defense that gives up 4 goals every game would be consistent yet both would be below average.

A average offense should score 3 goals per game and, conversely, an average defense would give up the same 3 goals.

As Chuck pointed out, what matters more than either the defensive or offensive numbers alone, is a teams goal differential.

While I recognize that UW needs to start playing efficient and effective team defense and needs to give a more consistent overall effort. It is just as likely that this team could lose a 2-1 game as win one in the NCAAs.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 2 - No Silly Eaves-isms, Just Win The Title!

We aren't infants, we know this is a different team than 2006...

Then why does everyone expect this years team to win games like the 2006 team did? That team was built around goaltending, and lock down defensive systems. Not necessarily the best defensemen, but lock down defenseive systems.

This years squad is built around offensive pressure from the blueline up to the forwards. With the good (a 4.00 goals per game), comes with the bad (higher goals given up).

I just think that people are looking at the 2006 template and telling themselves that if we don't play trap it up 2-1 hockey that we can't win a championship. I feel quite the opposite.

I think Almington summed up my thoughts pretty well.

 

[WIbadgerfanneenah]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 2 - No Silly Eaves-isms, Just Win The Title!

Thurber got released by UW

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 2 - No Silly Eaves-isms, Just Win The Title!

Thurber got released by UW

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 2 - No Silly Eaves-isms, Just Win The Title!

Thurber got released by UW

any explanations? I suppose they'll never be able to say anything except "rules violations" or "grades"???

 

[Almington]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 2 - No Silly Eaves-isms, Just Win The Title!

any explanations? I suppose they'll never be able to say anything except "rules violations" or "grades"???

well: http://host.madison.com/sports/college/hockey/article_b9c34838-200b-11df-b568-001cc4c03286.html

UW men's hockey coach Mike Eaves said Monday that he's dismissed sophomore center Matt Thurber from the team.

Thurber, from Beaver Dam, was suspended indefinitely by the school for violating its student-athlete discipline policy. According to Madison Police, he was charged with multiple misdemeanors after officers responded to a 911 call alleging a domestic incident involving a woman Feb. 8.

Eaves said he met last Friday with Thurber and his father, Ray. UW officials reviewed details of the case last week, but the decision to release Thurber fell to Eaves.

"That was my choice,'' he said.

Eaves said Thurber, who played in nine games and collected three assists this season, will remain on scholarship until the end of the school year.

For more on the story, read Tuesday's State Journal.

To me, it looks like Eaves was looking for a reason to get rid of Thurber, and this was just the excuse/opportunity he needed to do so. The Eaves doghouse is not a pleasant place to reside, like the old Ogg Hall.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 2 - No Silly Eaves-isms, Just Win The Title!

Then why does everyone expect this years team to win games like the 2006 team did? That team was built around goaltending, and lock down defensive systems. Not necessarily the best defensemen, but lock down defenseive systems.

I just think that people are looking at the 2006 template and telling themselves that if we don't play trap it up 2-1 hockey that we can't win a championship. I feel quite the opposite.

I think Almington summed up my thoughts pretty well.

Well we all appreciate your thoughts, but asking our defense to be more responsible in our zone isn't asking too much. And asking the team to come ready to play each night isn't either.

As we all know, in the playoffs teams tend to play better defense and they tend to be more talented than the Mankatos and Techs of the world that we've padded our stats against.

So it's probably reasonable to think that our goals scored per game will go down. Now if our defense continues to give up careless goals, we'll most likely be sunk real quick or at the very least, our margin for error will be extremely thin.

As I've said all along, this team can win a title but it's far from the near sure thing that the 2006 team was. And the 2006 team would beat this team 9 out of 10 times. Shut down D, great goalie and opportunistic/timely offense almost always wins. Yes, that's conjecture, but that's all any of this is anyway and I stand by it. For whatever that's worth.

Here's hoping that you're right.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 2 - No Silly Eaves-isms, Just Win The Title!

well: http://host.madison.com/sports/college/hockey/article_b9c34838-200b-11df-b568-001cc4c03286.html


To me, it looks like Eaves was looking for a reason to get rid of Thurber, and this was just the excuse/opportunity he needed to do so. The Eaves doghouse is not a pleasant place to reside, like the old Ogg Hall.

thanks.

however, I wouldn't say domestic abuse (against his girlfriend or whomever that woman is) and 3 misdemeanors is an "excuse" to let a kid go. If I were a coach I wouldn't put up with that trashy type behavior for a moment.

I mean, maybe the football players get away that crap but that doesn't mean hockey should follow suit and have lenient standards of discipline.

 

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 2 - No Silly Eaves-isms, Just Win The Title!

As Chuck pointed out, what matters more than either the defensive or offensive numbers alone, is a teams goal differential.

While I recognize that UW needs to start playing efficient and effective team defense and needs to give a more consistent overall effort. It is just as likely that this team could lose a 2-1 game as win one in the NCAAs.

I partially agree that team goal differential is important but I feel it is slightly a mute point when it comes to the NCAAs. A solid defense and goaltender tend to play consistently well, however, when it comes to the NCAAs, the teams that do the best often are riding a hot goaltender. I think we have seen what happens when we run into a goaltender playing well this year, we do not score as prolifically as we would like. That being said, a good offense can usually overcome that setback but in my opinion, I would rather have a slightly defense heavy goal differential than a complete dependence of our team putting 4 or 5 goals a game.

It really sucks about Thurber, but man, you have to make better decisions.

 

[Almington]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 2 - No Silly Eaves-isms, Just Win The Title!

thanks.

however, I wouldn't say domestic abuse (against his girlfriend or whomever that woman is) and 3 misdemeanors is an "excuse" to let a kid go. If I were a coach I wouldn't put up with that trashy type behavior for a moment.

I mean, maybe the football players get away that crap but that doesn't mean hockey should follow suit and have lenient standards of discipline.

While recognizing that significant information exists that I don't have:
I'd feel different if the legal process had played out fully and I felt that Thurber had received the due process provided by an independent judicial system and not a simple UW review and then summary judgment by Eaves.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 2 - No Silly Eaves-isms, Just Win The Title!

i guess we'll find out more tomorrow. should be very interesting.

domestic abuse, if true, and compiled w/3 misdemeanors..... ouch.

it's been several weeks now since we've been made aware that something happened with Thurber. I don't live in madison so i don't know if anything else hit the papers about him or not.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 2 - No Silly Eaves-isms, Just Win The Title!

Well we all appreciate your thoughts, but asking our defense to be more responsible in our zone isn't asking too much. And asking the team to come ready to play each night isn't either.

I agreed, I never said that we don't need to improve in those areas.

As we all know, in the playoffs teams tend to play better defense and they tend to be more talented than the Mankatos and Techs of the world that we've padded our stats against.

We've played the third hardest schedule in the nation. We've hardly simply played a "pad your stat" type of schedule.

So it's probably reasonable to think that our goals scored per game will go down. Now if our defense continues to give up careless goals, we'll most likely be sunk real quick or at the very least, our margin for error will be extremely thin.

It's also not unreasonable to think that our goals given up per game will go down in the playoffs. Why do you think that our defense will continue to give up careless goals but all of a sudden we'll forget how to score? Playoff games are generally tighter and I expect our defense to play a little tighter.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 2 - No Silly Eaves-isms, Just Win The Title!

The Thurber issue is a bit unsettling to me considering the circumstances. But this was not a domestic abuse issue.

"Thurber was charged with misdemeanor battery and disorderly conduct after an alleged domestic dispute early Monday morning."

There is a difference between domestic dispute and domestic abuse.

The battery didn't happen between Thurber and his girlfriend. Read between the lines if you want.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 2 - No Silly Eaves-isms, Just Win The Title!

The Thurber issue is a bit unsettling to me considering the circumstances. But this was not a domestic abuse issue.

"Thurber was charged with misdemeanor battery and disorderly conduct after an alleged domestic dispute early Monday morning."

There is a difference between domestic dispute and domestic abuse.

The battery didn't happen between Thurber and his girlfriend. Read between the lines if you want.

got ya. I did some speed reading. domestic dispute...sorry. Well, I guess this will be one hell of an interesting week.

I'll stand by misdemeanors and well...."battery" disorderly conduct being something that shouldn't be tolerated.

maybe the prior regime would have lobbied to let go (see; winchester, brad), but I'd rather see the hockey coaches not treat the players like the football guys do.

again, right now we've only got that article to go on but this doesn't look too good.