GB Puck Fan
It's A Great Day For Hockey
The two aren't handled the same for all matters.
USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
WIAC schools to pull out a year earlier than originally planned
- Thread starter joeyc3402
- Start date
The two aren't handled the same for all matters.
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
There are only 4 women's WIAC teams.
BetterInLakePlacid
New member
Re: WIAC schools to pull out a year earlier than originally planned
What's your point? In the NCHA there are five WIAC schools and seven private schools, same as I said before.
Perhaps not, but they are for the matter you referenced which makes your 5-2 split point irrelevant.
What's your point? In the NCHA there are five WIAC schools and seven private schools, same as I said before.
Perhaps not, but they are for the matter you referenced which makes your 5-2 split point irrelevant.
GB Puck Fan
It's A Great Day For Hockey
Re: WIAC schools to pull out a year earlier than originally planned
Well, when Marian applied, the votes was 5-3 against admission. I don't recall any of the women-only teams voting on the Sabres men's admission application. Just an example I can think of where the voting was done just by the schools affected.
Well, when Marian applied, the votes was 5-3 against admission. I don't recall any of the women-only teams voting on the Sabres men's admission application. Just an example I can think of where the voting was done just by the schools affected.
Re: WIAC schools to pull out a year earlier than originally planned
Basically, if SNC and CSS stick together they should be fine, either in the MCHA or the WIAC.
If CSS were to make a move to the MIAC in all sports (apparently unlikely, but I'm not sure why) things would get messy in western d3 hockey.
Basically, if SNC and CSS stick together they should be fine, either in the MCHA or the WIAC.
If CSS were to make a move to the MIAC in all sports (apparently unlikely, but I'm not sure why) things would get messy in western d3 hockey.
BetterInLakePlacid
New member
Re: WIAC schools to pull out a year earlier than originally planned
The only problem with all this is that it's completely wrong. At the time MSOE and Marian explored admission into the NCHA, there was never a formal application and vote on Marian. Even if there had been, Finlandia, Concordia, Marian and Adrian were not members of the NCHA at the time such as they are now, so they would not have been involved in any NCHA vote, period. So considering how those schools were not even involved in the NCHA at the time in question, I'm not sure what your point is regarding their lack of participation in a vote that never happened in the first place. Try again.
The only problem with all this is that it's completely wrong. At the time MSOE and Marian explored admission into the NCHA, there was never a formal application and vote on Marian. Even if there had been, Finlandia, Concordia, Marian and Adrian were not members of the NCHA at the time such as they are now, so they would not have been involved in any NCHA vote, period. So considering how those schools were not even involved in the NCHA at the time in question, I'm not sure what your point is regarding their lack of participation in a vote that never happened in the first place. Try again.
GB Puck Fan
It's A Great Day For Hockey
Re: WIAC schools to pull out a year earlier than originally planned
OK, fine. Show me where it says all schools vote on both men's and women's issues. They obviously aren't all done the same, as the women's teams don't play each other three times in conference play as the men do. You keep telling me I'm wrong without showing it.
OK, fine. Show me where it says all schools vote on both men's and women's issues. They obviously aren't all done the same, as the women's teams don't play each other three times in conference play as the men do. You keep telling me I'm wrong without showing it.
Re: WIAC schools to pull out a year earlier than originally planned
Like I say, it smells.
And my point is that it was 30 months away when originally leaked early. Then SNC had the temerity to go out and win another championship, so the WIAC now says "We are leaving a year earlier.".
Like I say, it smells.
BetterInLakePlacid
New member
Re: WIAC schools to pull out a year earlier than originally planned
So because the women don't play a 30 game league schedule it means you know what you're talking about? Listen, you can stop any time now. Your initial statement was flat wrong, and that's fine, but there is no reason for you to try to keep perpetuating it. The fact the first thing you cited to prop up your misinformation was a supposed vote that never occurred that was supposedly voted on by schools who were not even members of the league at the time is about all that was needed to see you really don't have a clue. Let me ask you, did you really think that the NCHA held a formal vote on Marian at one point, and did you really think that Adrian, Concordia, Marian and Finlandia were NCHA members at the time that could have voted on it? Apparently you did based on your original comment, which creates just two possibilities. You were either lying or are just clueless. I'll assume the latter in that regard.
Face it, you're wrong and that's fine, but this thread is full of enough clutter and misinformation as it is. There's really no need for you to keep going with the baseless speculation. All you're doing is making things worse than they already are.
So because the women don't play a 30 game league schedule it means you know what you're talking about? Listen, you can stop any time now. Your initial statement was flat wrong, and that's fine, but there is no reason for you to try to keep perpetuating it. The fact the first thing you cited to prop up your misinformation was a supposed vote that never occurred that was supposedly voted on by schools who were not even members of the league at the time is about all that was needed to see you really don't have a clue. Let me ask you, did you really think that the NCHA held a formal vote on Marian at one point, and did you really think that Adrian, Concordia, Marian and Finlandia were NCHA members at the time that could have voted on it? Apparently you did based on your original comment, which creates just two possibilities. You were either lying or are just clueless. I'll assume the latter in that regard.
Face it, you're wrong and that's fine, but this thread is full of enough clutter and misinformation as it is. There's really no need for you to keep going with the baseless speculation. All you're doing is making things worse than they already are.
bakdraft21
Well-known member
Re: WIAC schools to pull out a year earlier than originally planned
Ok ok already dont you guys out west know that these boards are all about Oswego and Norwich
.......cant we all just get along
Ok ok already dont you guys out west know that these boards are all about Oswego and Norwich
.......cant we all just get alongDennis4896
New member
Re: WIAC schools to pull out a year earlier than originally planned
The only point you've made is that you are unwilling to let the facts stand in the way of your ill-conceived opinions.
The only point you've made is that you are unwilling to let the facts stand in the way of your ill-conceived opinions.
Re: WIAC schools to pull out a year earlier than originally planned
Really? Which fact? Announcing you are leaving after the 2013-14 season in February, and then moving it up a year (co-incidentally because SNC won another Championship??)? IMO, it stinks.
Really? Which fact? Announcing you are leaving after the 2013-14 season in February, and then moving it up a year (co-incidentally because SNC won another Championship??)? IMO, it stinks.
norm1909
Larry Normandin
GB Puck Fan
It's A Great Day For Hockey
Re: WIAC schools to pull out a year earlier than originally planned
Fine, I'm wrong. You win. Put a gold star on your forehead.
But - I never asserted Adrian, Concordia, Marian and Finlandia voted on anything. I asserted the vote was 5-3 against allowing Marian in the NCHA for men. That would be a vote of the five public schools against and three private schools (SNC, CSS and Lake Forest, which was member then) in favor. I didn't suggest or say anything about those other schools. If you want to say I'm wrong, fine - but don't go adding things that I didn't say. Whether that was a formal vote or just the sentiment in the room, either way Marian didn't get in when it had discussions with the league several years ago.
Fine, I'm wrong. You win. Put a gold star on your forehead.
But - I never asserted Adrian, Concordia, Marian and Finlandia voted on anything. I asserted the vote was 5-3 against allowing Marian in the NCHA for men. That would be a vote of the five public schools against and three private schools (SNC, CSS and Lake Forest, which was member then) in favor. I didn't suggest or say anything about those other schools. If you want to say I'm wrong, fine - but don't go adding things that I didn't say. Whether that was a formal vote or just the sentiment in the room, either way Marian didn't get in when it had discussions with the league several years ago.
Dennis4896
New member
Re: WIAC schools to pull out a year earlier than originally planned
The reasons for giving 30+ months notice were clearly stated at the time of the original announcement. No credible source I am aware of says anything about it being leaked as you suggested.
The recent decision to move the effective date from 2014 to 2013 was presented in a joint announcement by the commissioners of the NCHA and WIAC. There is no indication whatsoever that it was a unilateral move by the WIAC. If the NCHA were not in complete agreement with the date change, they could have issued a statement saying so.
The reasons for giving 30+ months notice were clearly stated at the time of the original announcement. No credible source I am aware of says anything about it being leaked as you suggested.
The recent decision to move the effective date from 2014 to 2013 was presented in a joint announcement by the commissioners of the NCHA and WIAC. There is no indication whatsoever that it was a unilateral move by the WIAC. If the NCHA were not in complete agreement with the date change, they could have issued a statement saying so.
norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: WIAC schools to pull out a year earlier than originally planned
The "complete" NCHA, is for all intents and purposes the 2 non-WIAC schools, who IMO, could careless and want to send the WIAC on their way and/or at a minimum are under the duress of appearing pity/solely self-serving should they object to the "majority" and at best want to move forward, with sooner beating later.
From a business perspective, I can find many justifiable reasons for the WIAC to take the actions they have. Their primary stakeholders have little to benefit from belonging to the NCHA, in the end, I am certain the “cost/benefit” analysis fueled the decision. Note that the “cost/benefit” analysis includes the “rewards” of participation. Since DIII hockey’s monetary costs far exceed the revenue, additional, non-financial factors are also weighed. These factors are those primarily affecting the quality of the educational experience as a whole to the student body as well as the image and recruiting benefits that offing the sport bring. These factors must justify the offering of the sport. The continual success of SNC as NCHA Champion does not have a net positive impact on the non-financial benefits of offering the sport, for example promoting the WIAC as a whole can help over come some of the particular shortcomings. Moving the WIAC schools to a WIAC umbrella is quite likely to lead to a net benefit to the WIAC schools even if their financial cost remain unchanged.
It is unfortunate (stinks) that a proud conference with a strong history/legacy is likely to end, but if it means preserving teams that otherwise might be folded, in the end it is likely for the best.
The "complete" NCHA, is for all intents and purposes the 2 non-WIAC schools, who IMO, could careless and want to send the WIAC on their way and/or at a minimum are under the duress of appearing pity/solely self-serving should they object to the "majority" and at best want to move forward, with sooner beating later.
From a business perspective, I can find many justifiable reasons for the WIAC to take the actions they have. Their primary stakeholders have little to benefit from belonging to the NCHA, in the end, I am certain the “cost/benefit” analysis fueled the decision. Note that the “cost/benefit” analysis includes the “rewards” of participation. Since DIII hockey’s monetary costs far exceed the revenue, additional, non-financial factors are also weighed. These factors are those primarily affecting the quality of the educational experience as a whole to the student body as well as the image and recruiting benefits that offing the sport bring. These factors must justify the offering of the sport. The continual success of SNC as NCHA Champion does not have a net positive impact on the non-financial benefits of offering the sport, for example promoting the WIAC as a whole can help over come some of the particular shortcomings. Moving the WIAC schools to a WIAC umbrella is quite likely to lead to a net benefit to the WIAC schools even if their financial cost remain unchanged.
It is unfortunate (stinks) that a proud conference with a strong history/legacy is likely to end, but if it means preserving teams that otherwise might be folded, in the end it is likely for the best.
Last edited:
Re: WIAC schools to pull out a year earlier than originally planned
Gary, is that you?
Gary, is that you?
Re: WIAC schools to pull out a year earlier than originally planned
If they truly want to invite CSS and SNC into the WIAC, there wouldn't be any travel savings would there?