Who's #1 - Poll guess of 2/3/14

[admiral0417]

Re: Who's #1 - Poll guess of 2/3/14

Down year for ECAC West and NESCAC, that's why. There is also 3 SUNYAC teams in one of the polls. Geneseo deserves to be ranked a little higher I think. Yes, they lost to Potsdam in a letdown game after a huge win vs. Plattsburgh. They seem to win most of the games they are "supposed" to. After Williams, there is not much going on in NESCAC. I think Amherst is probably better than their record indicates....and Trinity is not as good as their record indicates. But they are what they are.

 

[llama]

Re: Who's #1 - Poll guess of 2/3/14

I believe there will be 7 AQs, 1 Pool-B and 3 Pool C bids this year. The Pool-B spot could easily go to a team from WIAC though it looks like right now only Stevens Point or Eau Claire are serious contenders. Seems unlikely that if the Pool-B bid went to a WIAC team that all three C bids would also go to western teams. It'd cause havoc with the 500 mile issue not to mention the play-in games.

ECAC-W folks feel free to jump in regarding Utica, Hobart & ELmira et al vs the WIAC for the Pool-B spot.......I imagine there are strong feelings.

When it comes to an ECAC-W team getting the Pool B bid, the only strong feelings I have are related to what a long shot that would be. Don't see it happening.

 

[llama]

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

I don't recall a time when the ECAC/W has been shut out of any poll, legitimate or not. Gives credence to how irrelevant the league has become in only two short years. (Utica is not a top 15 team)

"in two short years"....?
I'd say the league was relevant last year....but agree it certainly has not been this year.

 

[elbojpb]

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

"in two short years"....? I'd say the league was relevant last year....but agree it certainly has not been this year.

Only 1 tourney representative last year down from consistently 2 and 3, and "short" is the definitive adjective. One team does not relevance make.

Why?

More in line with my 'expert' evaluation AND it didn't have Utica ranked.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

More in line with my 'expert' evaluation AND it didn't have Utica ranked.

We don't have enough time of day to list all the reasons why the "other" site has a more accurate ranking system. We understand polls are strictly opinions, but you can normally tell which poll is based off of looking at a box score, and which is looked at by not only the box score, but the teams playing, injuries, shots on goal, loss vs. good/bad team and not based off of previous years. USCHO polls has always been a laugher since it started (See all the "Where's RIT" posts). No one gets it right, but some people actually look at the stats more then a final score. People should always commend someone for posting their opinions, right or wrong, and that's not the issue. But when you post opinions with no backing other then a score, and post a poll based off of that, don't wonder why people question the logistics and accuracy of a poll.

 

[joecct]

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

We don't have enough time of day to list all the reasons why the "other" site has a more accurate ranking system. We understand polls are strictly opinions, but you can normally tell which poll is based off of looking at a box score, and which is looked at by not only the box score, but the teams playing, injuries, shots on goal, loss vs. good/bad team and not based off of previous years. USCHO polls has always been a laugher since it started (See all the "Where's RIT" posts). No one gets it right, but some people actually look at the stats more then a final score. People should always commend someone for posting their opinions, right or wrong, and that's not the issue. But when you post opinions with no backing other then a score, and post a poll based off of that, don't wonder why people question the logistics and accuracy of a poll.

Remy

I don't see a score metric in the NCAA selection criteria, nor is there one for home vs. away wins (used to be, but that was a long time ago). Now some poll voters may look at score and home/away but others may just go with A beat B and leave it at that.

 

[llama]

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

Only 1 tourney representative last year down from consistently 2 and 3, and "short" is the definitive adjective. One team does not relevance make.

So you'd also say that the SUNYAC and NESCAC were irrelevant last year?

The final published NCAA ranking had four ECAC-W teams ranked in the East. I agree that only one team getting a bid is down from the recent trend...but Utica went to the final four so the league was represented as well as many other years from that perspective. IMO, "irrelevant" seems a bit harsh to describe last year...but spot on so far for this year.

On another note, Elmira/Hobart square off three times in the coming weeks...should be some great hockey.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

I don't see a score metric in the NCAA selection criteria, nor is there one for home vs. away wins (used to be, but that was a long time ago).

Who said anything about NCAA selection criteria. We are talking USCHO vs D3hockey poll ?

Now some poll voters may look at score and home/away but others may just go with A beat B and leave it at that.

Exactly my point. One poll (a lo voters) "look at score and home/away" ect ect and some just go with "A beat B" ...it doesn't take rocket science to figure out who is who and what is what....

 

[admiral0417]

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

If we all study hard enough we still might be able to figure why Babson is ranked #5 in the country. I just took another look at their results...biggest wins were UMass Boston X 2, New England College X 2 and Amherst. Those 3 teams aren't bad but I doubt any of them will be playing after their conference playoffs. They also have 8 one-goal wins and 4 games against D2 teams which won't count.

At this point their only games against ranked teams (top 8) are Norwich & Williams which were both losses. I'm not buying the SOS argument either.

 

[Ozz]

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

If we all study hard enough we still might be able to figure why Babson is ranked #5 in the country. I just took another look at their results...biggest wins were UMass Boston X 2, New England College X 2 and Amherst. Those 3 teams aren't bad but I doubt any of them will be playing after their conference playoffs. They also have 8 one-goal wins and 4 games against D2 teams which won't count.

At this point their only games against ranked teams (top 8) are Norwich & Williams which were both losses. I'm not buying the SOS argument either.

I think this is one thing that many people get wrong. When thinking of SOS, too many people think of it as being top heavy. How many of the 'great' teams have you played/beaten? Having played teams like the ones mentioned above really help your SOS, whatever you may think of those 'middle of the pack' teams. So while maybe not having played many games against Top X teams, not having many games against Bottom X teams really helps too.

 

[NorthernLite]

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

We don't have enough time of day to list all the reasons why the "other" site has a more accurate ranking system. We understand polls are strictly opinions, but you can normally tell which poll is based off of looking at a box score, and which is looked at by not only the box score, but the teams playing, injuries, shots on goal, loss vs. good/bad team and not based off of previous years. USCHO polls has always been a laugher since it started (See all the "Where's RIT" posts). No one gets it right, but some people actually look at the stats more then a final score. People should always commend someone for posting their opinions, right or wrong, and that's not the issue. But when you post opinions with no backing other then a score, and post a poll based off of that, don't wonder why people question the logistics and accuracy of a poll.

The USCHO Poll has for years had a tendancy to favour teams with history/pedigree.
D3 tend to move a little quicker if a team slips.
There has been more consistency between the 2 polls this year.
Would be much more interesting and there would be a ton more discussion if we saw the individual polls tagged by conference/program.

 

[petrietodonovan]

Re: Who's #1 - Poll guess of 2/3/14

Good stuff here. I can see the next few weeks are going to include a lot more time on this board. Thanks.

 

[elbojpb]

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

So you'd also say that the SUNYAC and NESCAC were irrelevant last year? The final published NCAA ranking had four ECAC-W teams ranked in the East.

I perennially believe the NESCAC is irrelevant for their insular scheduling practices. It's tough to evaluate a conference when they insist on scheduling a circle joke. A few years back they had 5? teams ranked in the NCAA polls, and at best - one should have been ranked. The Sunyac typically has only a momentary drop off, but with new rinks, low tuition, and irregular foreign recruiting practices, they jump back quickly.

I see the ECAC/W teams more than most, so my 'harsh' opinion was based on the less-than-stellar level of play I witnessed toward the end of last year, and the fiasco called the ECAC tourney.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

If we all study hard enough we still might be able to figure why Babson is ranked #5 in the country. I just took another look at their results...biggest wins were UMass Boston X 2, New England College X 2 and Amherst. Those 3 teams aren't bad but I doubt any of them will be playing after their conference playoffs. They also have 8 one-goal wins and 4 games against D2 teams which won't count.

At this point their only games against ranked teams (top 8) are Norwich & Williams which were both losses. I'm not buying the SOS argument either.

Babson may not have the resume of some other teams but let me tell you, they are a good hockey team. Coach Rice is one of the best and he has them playing some quality hockey. Lets also not forget Babson is one of those teams that notoriously gets better as the season progresses....If that's the case again this season, watch out for the Beavers come late Feb, early March.

But once again, I don't know if anybody out East can compete with the West right now and the Polls are finally starting to show it....

 

[Ed Trefzger]

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

But when you post opinions with no backing other then a score, and post a poll based off of that, don't wonder why people question the logistics and accuracy of a poll.

I don't follow. What does posting opinions on USCHO have to do with the coaches who are the poll voters?

 

[admiral0417]

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

Re: D3 - 15 || ecac/w - 0

There has been a lot of years when no one expected much from the western teams...and BANG....they walked away with the trophy. There are a couple of teams in the East who can make a good run at Lewiston.

 

[OZFEST]

I don't follow. What does posting opinions on USCHO have to do with the coaches who are the poll voters?

Since that door is cracked, which coaches vote on either site? Are they the same 15? What is the criteria for voting?

 

[admiral0417]

Re: Who's #1 - Poll guess of 2/3/14

I don't know, but I'd be willing to bet St. Thomas & Babson have some representation on there. That would explain the one conspiracy theory I've ever come up with !!

 

[haulin oats]

I don't know, but I'd be willing to bet St. Thomas & Babson have some representation on there. That would explain the one conspiracy theory I've ever come up with !!

Not sure what your beef with UST is. They have a .789 win %. Tied for sixth best in all the land. While they may not have that signature win their only losses have come against SNC, UWSP, and UWEC.

 

[Ed Trefzger]

Re: Who's #1 - Poll guess of 2/3/14

Since that door is cracked, which coaches vote on either site? Are they the same 15? What is the criteria for voting?

I'm not allowed tell you who USCHO's are and couldn't tell you who D3Hockey's are. I can tell you that in the USCHO poll there are coaches from each league and with an east/west split proportional to the number of teams in each region.