Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

[wsp67326]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

Normally, I wouldn't waste time responding to a comment like this. Not sure who you root for, don't really care, but likely a bubble team???? Doesn't really matter...... UAH has had a dedicated program for as long as several teams in the Big Four conferences. They have battled huge disadvantages in recruiting based atleast partly on the fact that they are not in a Big Four conference and yet still have put a competitive team on the ice. Many of the traditionally "less successful" Big Four conference teams would not even survive if faced with the same situation. The success that those teams have is in no small part due to the fact that they have guaranteed home games vs. many of the traditional powerhouses every year. I am pretty confident in saying that if UAH was in one of those conferences, and had the traditional big name schools in to play, attendance would grow further, funding for the program would increase and their recruiting could not help but strengthen. But, they are not in a Big Four conference, were snubbed in their application to join one and have done nothing but put their heads down, play by the rules and earn their right to the tournament thru the current rules. Which, sadly for some of us, and clearly happily for you, will end this year! If the only price the fans and members schools of the elitist programs and conferences have to pay is having once school bumped from the tourney for one year....... you won't get any sympathy from me!!!!! UAH still has to face all the hurdles that are thrown in front of them..... which I certainly hope they continue to jump!

Amen.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

The only thing I have to say to the people complaining about the 2 CHA teams making the tourney:

Win your games. The rest will take care of itself. Not that difficult.

 

[gfmorris]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

After all the rules are the rules, and we can't change them now, so no use complaining further. However, the most alarming thing to me is that one of the #1 seeds is going to get to play a .400 garbage team first round in the NCAA tournament, ...

At least if Niagara wins they will have kind of earned it(?)... but not really. I hope the NCAA is ashamed of dropping the ball this round. My deepest empathy to the #17 bubble team.

Making the NCAA is a huge honor and an incredible amount of work and pressure, whichever path they qualify. I hope all 15 teams are proud and play well. What a possibly disgraceful and tarnishing end to UAH's hockey athletic.

I know, I know, don't feed the trolls. But:

1. UAH was #5 of 5 teams in 2007. Came from behind every win in the conference tournament, swapping goalies every game. Still took Notre Dame to 2OT in Grand Rapids.

2. Niagara finished on a nice run, and had a rough NC schedule, but they finished last in the league. Last. To buy your argument, you'd feel worse if Niagara won the league tournament instead of UAH, who was at least next-to-last.

3. You're assuming that UAH will fold after this year. That is fully incorrect.

<object width="400" height="300"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=8271060&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=8271060&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="300"></embed></object><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/8271060">Danton Cole Interview, 18 Dec 2009 - SaveUAHHockey.com</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/gfmorris">Geoffrey Morris</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

Not that you're likely to take the 7m01s to watch that video, though.

GFM

 

[tnlong]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

I was under the impression that a team had to have an over .500 record to qualify for the final 16...regardless if you won your conference tourney or not. Thought this was put in place after Wisconsin made it in a couple years back. ?????

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/ice_hockey/2010/10_1_m_icehockey.pdf
See manual's page 10.

 

[Porterc2133]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

Well your crying over spilled milk will be over after tomorrow as the CHA will be gone and therefore another At-Large bid will be available next year. I agree that the conference committee made a great decision the last few years to let the CHA retain the auto-bid, otherwise the 4 schools would have really not had much to play for...... The other 3, leave out BSU, had very tough nonconference schedules, probably tougher than most! And some got wins and/or kept it close as another post stated earlier...Long live the CHA! I hope Huntsville wins tomorrow, BSU-Huntsville national championship, well, we can only wish

None of the CHA teams had that tough of a schedule Bemidji ranked 34th, Robert Morris ranked 36th, Niagra ranked 45th, and Alabama-Huntsville Ranked 48th out of 58 teams. Minnesota-Duluth ranked 12th and had double the wins and unless they win the WCHA tourney they are out. All Alabama-Huntsville had to do this year is win 2 games against 2 under .500 team to get in the NCAA for all the other confrences they have to win atleast 4 games against way better teams

 

[gfmorris]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

None of the CHA teams had that tough of a schedule Bemidji ranked 34th, Robert Morris ranked 36th, Niagra ranked 45th, and Alabama-Huntsville Ranked 48th out of 58 teams. Minnesota-Duluth ranked 12th and had double the wins and unless they win the WCHA tourney they are out. All Alabama-Huntsville had to do this year is win 2 games against 2 under .500 team to get in the NCAA for all the other confrences they have to win atleast 4 games against way better teams

Whine all you want ... it's the last time this can happen.

GFM

 

[Onion Man]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

2 bids out of a 4 team conference is a complete joke, but UAH won out so they deserve it. I think there should be a minimum of teams in a conference if they are giving an autobid, though.

UAH and Bemidji are in, while teams like Michigan, BU, Minnesota, etc are going to be out. I dont think this makes the NCAAs more appealing to anyone to be honest.

 

[observer85]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

None of the CHA teams had that tough of a schedule Bemidji ranked 34th, Robert Morris ranked 36th, Niagra ranked 45th, and Alabama-Huntsville Ranked 48th out of 58 teams. Minnesota-Duluth ranked 12th and had double the wins and unless they win the WCHA tourney they are out. All Alabama-Huntsville had to do this year is win 2 games against 2 under .500 team to get in the NCAA for all the other confrences they have to win atleast 4 games against way better teams

2 bids out of a 4 team conference is a complete joke, but UAH won out so they deserve it. I think there should be a minimum of teams in a conference if they are giving an autobid, though.

UAH and Bemidji are in, while teams like Michigan, BU, Minnesota, etc are going to be out. I dont think this makes the NCAAs more appealing to anyone to be honest.

So the oblivious solution to this situation is for the tournament committee to pair Bemidji and Huntsville in game 1 of some regional. That way, by the luck of a hot goalie, both CHA teams do not make it to the Frozen Four.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

Solidarity with my fellow primary colored fowl - Go Niagara!

Purple is a primary color now?


Powers &8^]

 

[BC/HE]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

2. Niagara finished on a nice run, and had a rough NC schedule, but they finished last in the league. Last. To buy your argument, you'd feel worse if Niagara won the league tournament instead of UAH, who was at least next-to-last.
GFM

Actually this is not true. Niagara and Alabama-Huntsville were tied for third. A tiebreaker is used for seedings in the tournament not for determining league standing. In a first place tie teams are considered co-champions even though they have to be seeded for a tournament in some order.

Going back to that last regular season OT win by UAH over Niagara the implications were gigantic as had NU held on to the tie they would have been seeded second and UAH would have been playing BSU in the semifinals. Shows how important each single point was this year.

The best option for UAH is to get Miami in the first round. The motivation factor playing a CCHA team would be huge and the WCHA and Boston College are probably better teams anyway due to the better competition they faced.

 

[gfmorris]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

For everyone whining about the CHA autobid: whine all you want, because the conference is dead today.

1. The conference would have been dead sooner without it. With the WCHA having a moratorium on expansion in the past, BSU would likely have been shut out. All indications were that BSU would fold their program if they didn't get picked up by the WCHA.

2. UAH would still have been likely go it alone as an independent.

3. Atlantic Hockey was less receptive to expanding earlier, which puts Niagara and Robert Morris both in jeopardy.

The reason that the league lived as long as it did was the autobid. Did you want four fewer schools in D-I? Remember, the CHA getting an AQ is the main reason we went from 12 to 16 teams making the postseason.

Now, you can argue that the CHA dying two years ago would still see the same situation we're seeing now: the WCHA picking up BSU, UAH going indie, and AHA picking up NU and RMU. I'm just positing that it was far less likely a couple years back than it was last spring and summer, when everything moved. [Except, you know, the idea that everyone had that a CCHA team would leave for the WCHA and be backfilled by UAH.]

Bemidji absolutely deserves its at-large bid. UAH is no more deserving of its AQ than any past CHA AQ, and the CHA has represented itself fairly well in the NCAAs.

Of course, not that any of the haters care. They're too busy pouting that bubble team #14 got knocked out, forgetting that there were only eight at-large spots just a few years ago.

Suck it up and grow a pair.

GFM

 

[gfmorris]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

Actually this is not true. Niagara and Alabama-Huntsville were tied for third. A tiebreaker is used for seedings in the tournament not for determining league standing. In a first place tie teams are considered co-champions even though they have to be seeded for a tournament in some order.

Going back to that last regular season OT win by UAH over Niagara the implications were gigantic as had NU held on to the tie they would have been seeded second and UAH would have been playing BSU in the semifinals. Shows how important each single point was this year.

The best option for UAH is to get Miami in the first round. The motivation factor playing a CCHA team would be huge and the WCHA and Boston College are probably better teams anyway due to the better competition they faced.

Sure, we tied for last. But as you said, we had the tiebreaker.

Not that it matters too much to me ... UAH was the fifth of five seeds three years ago, made a run through the CHA tournament, and took Notre Dame to 2OT.

GFM

 

[IrishHockeyFan]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

2 bids out of a 4 team conference is a complete joke, but UAH won out so they deserve it. I think there should be a minimum of teams in a conference if they are giving an autobid, though.

UAH and Bemidji are in, while teams like Michigan, BU, Minnesota, etc are going to be out. I dont think this makes the NCAAs more appealing to anyone to be honest.

Last time I checked Michigan, BU, and Minnesota are all still very much alive for the NCAA tournament. All they need to do is win a few more games, you know, sort of like UAH did the last couple of days.

So much hand-wringing over UAH and I don't get it. I'll forever be more concerned with the games MY team DIDN'T win to get into the tournament than the games UAH (or any other team) DID win to get in.

Was it the best idea to let a 4-team conference retain their auto-bid? Maybe, maybe not. Especially since we all knew that 3 of the teams were joining much larger and/or more established leagues and the other one has every intention of soldiering on and likely re-applying to join one of the "big boys."

As for making the NCAAs more appealing, I think any time you get a head-scratcher team in there, or someone unexpected, it does make things more interesting. If college hockey cannot maintain interest in the sport without the most popular or most traditional teams participating in the tournament every year we're in trouble. If fans of traditional teams like Minnesota, BU, or Michigan drift away and lose interest in college hockey because they miss the tournament once or twice in a generation I say too bad for them, but they obviously aren't real fans of either their team or our sport.

If UAH "ruins" anyone elses season, I'm all for it. After all, my team already ruined their own one.

 

[gfmorris]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

If UAH "ruins" anyone elses season, I'm all for it. After all, my team already ruined their own one.

Hey, UAH helped that by beating NtD in the opener.

GFM

 

[kdaddy]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

For everyone whining about the CHA autobid: whine all you want, because the conference is dead today.

1. The conference would have been dead sooner without it. With the WCHA having a moratorium on expansion in the past, BSU would likely have been shut out. All indications were that BSU would fold their program if they didn't get picked up by the WCHA.

2. UAH would still have been likely go it alone as an independent.

3. Atlantic Hockey was less receptive to expanding earlier, which puts Niagara and Robert Morris both in jeopardy.

The reason that the league lived as long as it did was the autobid. Did you want four fewer schools in D-I? Remember, the CHA getting an AQ is the main reason we went from 12 to 16 teams making the postseason.

Now, you can argue that the CHA dying two years ago would still see the same situation we're seeing now: the WCHA picking up BSU, UAH going indie, and AHA picking up NU and RMU. I'm just positing that it was far less likely a couple years back than it was last spring and summer, when everything moved. [Except, you know, the idea that everyone had that a CCHA team would leave for the WCHA and be backfilled by UAH.]

Bemidji absolutely deserves its at-large bid. UAH is no more deserving of its AQ than any past CHA AQ, and the CHA has represented itself fairly well in the NCAAs.

Of course, not that any of the haters care. They're too busy pouting that bubble team #14 got knocked out, forgetting that there were only eight at-large spots just a few years ago.

Suck it up and grow a pair.

GFM

The man's got a good point.... all I ask is that UML be the 15th team in the PWR (can't wait for that as they beat UAH 2 times and oh it will be so fun to watch them *****) )

 

[Onion Man]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

Last time I checked Michigan, BU, and Minnesota are all still very much alive for the NCAA tournament. All they need to do is win a few more games, you know, sort of like UAH did the last couple of days.

So much hand-wringing over UAH and I don't get it. I'll forever be more concerned with the games MY team DIDN'T win to get into the tournament than the games UAH (or any other team) DID win to get in.

Was it the best idea to let a 4-team conference retain their auto-bid? Maybe, maybe not. Especially since we all knew that 3 of the teams were joining much larger and/or more established leagues and the other one has every intention of soldiering on and likely re-applying to join one of the "big boys."

As for making the NCAAs more appealing, I think any time you get a head-scratcher team in there, or someone unexpected, it does make things more interesting. If college hockey cannot maintain interest in the sport without the most popular or most traditional teams participating in the tournament every year we're in trouble. If fans of traditional teams like Minnesota, BU, or Michigan drift away and lose interest in college hockey because they miss the tournament once or twice in a generation I say too bad for them, but they obviously aren't real fans of either their team or our sport.

If UAH "ruins" anyone elses season, I'm all for it. After all, my team already ruined their own one.

My point has nothing to do with UAH, good for them. They won their conference tourney and deserve what they got. My bigger point is the 4 team conference. Now, sure, Michigan, Minnesota, and BU are still alive, but not all three will make it.

I think in the bigger picture, if the NCAA is trying to expand college hockey and make it more mainstream, having Michigan or Minnesota playing does a lot more for the sport than UAH does.

Dont take this as a slight towards the CHA or their teams, but all I heard in Washington DC last year was "what the hell is Bemidji", etc coming off a year when the FF had Notre Dame, Boston College, Michigan and traditional powerhouse North Dakota.

Now that UAH is in it, I wish them the best of luck.

 

[gfmorris]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

I think in the bigger picture, if the NCAA is trying to expand college hockey and make it more mainstream, having Michigan or Minnesota playing does a lot more for the sport than UAH does.

Really? Because having UMinn and UMich for the last however many years has really made this sport mainstream.

Keeping the CHA alive as long as it did was college hockey's way of trying to expand western hockey. AHA has expansion covered in the East, although at this point it doesn't look like anyone but Syracuse is even close to going D-I. And remember ... Quinnipiac started off in the MAAC/AHA before moving up to the ECAC.

GFM

 

[profoster]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

I don't think a conference with 4 teams should have an automatic birth to the NCAA tournament. Seems a bit unfair.

 

[moose97]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

Was it the best idea to let a 4-team conference retain their auto-bid? Maybe, maybe not. Especially since we all knew that 3 of the teams were joining much larger and/or more established leagues and the other one has every intention of soldiering on and likely re-applying to join one of the "big boys."

I love how everyone else thinks this "AQ for the CHA" in it's last year is all about everyone else. What about those four teams? What about the ramifications for BSU, RMU, UAH and Niagara if the AQ isn't maintained? Confused by what I mean? Think about it this way:

Think back a year and a half. BSU, Niagara, UAH and RMU all basically knew that the CHA had a year or two at best left after Wayne State folded and Air Force had left for AHA. RMU and Niagara were seriously persuing AHA affiliation and BSU the WCHA. UAH was pushing CCHA membership, however, there was nothing guaranteed for anyone - in fact, far from it. BSU had a ton of issues getting guarantees that its new rink would get built. Its Frozen Four run just a dream. We all know UAH's issues with the CCHA.

Why do I bring all this up? Imagine being a recruit for any one of these schools a year and a half ago. Imagine Tom Serratore, Dave Burkholder, Derrek Schoolie or Danton Cole sitting in your home and telling you about their program. You ask, "okay coach, but will I be able to compete for a National Championship?" How were any of these schools supposed to recruit kids when they couldn't guarantee kids that they had a shot at making the dance? That's one great equalizer in D-I hockey. Every school can honestly tell recruits that if they play well enough, they can get to the tourney and win.

Now, sure, BSU has proven that and at-large is possible, but that seemed far-fetched out of the CHA (and Atlantic Hockey) before this year. Also, not continuring the AQ would have potentially set-back recruiting one season for these schools as they enter their new conferences. That can be potentially devestatng for a team. A big hole in one class year for a team would take four years to make up for.

See, sometimes it's not about Michigan, BU or Minnesota (and all the rest of "college hockey"). It's about Bemidji State, Alabama-Huntsville, Niagara and Robert Morris...

 

[IrishHockeyFan]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

My point has nothing to do with UAH, good for them. They won their conference tourney and deserve what they got. My bigger point is the 4 team conference. Now, sure, Michigan, Minnesota, and BU are still alive, but not all three will make it.

I think in the bigger picture, if the NCAA is trying to expand college hockey and make it more mainstream, having Michigan or Minnesota playing does a lot more for the sport than UAH does.

Dont take this as a slight towards the CHA or their teams, but all I heard in Washington DC last year was "what the hell is Bemidji", etc coming off a year when the FF had Notre Dame, Boston College, Michigan and traditional powerhouse North Dakota.

Now that UAH is in it, I wish them the best of luck.

I think Michigan and Boston College may have a bone to pick with you leaving them out of the "traditional powerhouse" tag...

And I cannot imagine who you were speaking with in DC. In Denver nearly every fan I ran into was a huge fan of college hockey and their knowledge of college hockey was both broad and deep. Every Frozen F is attended by 1000s of fans who go every year regardless of which teams are participating. It seems to me a much better mix of people than those who will attend that other Final Four, most of them being corporate types or people there because it is the place to be, as opposed to being fans of college basketball or one of the four teams.