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Who goes first Lewis or Linstad?
- Thread starter Beantown Puckfan
- Start date
She made over $100,000 two seasons ago
HockeyEast12
New member
Re: Who goes first Lewis or Linstad?
Not sure why there is the Kimball bashing, the kids he recruited at North Dakota seem to have done pretty well for themselves. And clearly we've seen that Vermont's problems in the past had nothing to do with Grant's recruiting and coaching. (See Bothwell) Times are changing in Burlington and if Kimball doesn't get a good look at a job this year he will in the near future.
Experience building programs and emphasis on defense, seems like UConn could do a lot worse.
Not sure why there is the Kimball bashing, the kids he recruited at North Dakota seem to have done pretty well for themselves. And clearly we've seen that Vermont's problems in the past had nothing to do with Grant's recruiting and coaching. (See Bothwell) Times are changing in Burlington and if Kimball doesn't get a good look at a job this year he will in the near future.
Experience building programs and emphasis on defense, seems like UConn could do a lot worse.
Hux
Alfond to Ridder & rinks in between
Re: Who goes first Lewis or Linstad?
Look at who did the (clueless) posting and you will have your answer.
Look at who did the (clueless) posting and you will have your answer.
HockeyEast33
New member
Re: Who goes first Lewis or Linstad?
Well, he was good enough for Jim Plumer to keep when he was hired, so that is a positive recommendation as Plumer is a good coach. That being said, I look at the recruiting class for this year (Kimball largely owns this) - see below - and I don't feel like it is an outstanding class that has a major impact on their future success. Litchfield is by far the best of the group and is a strong goalie, but the rest of the players are pretty much second tier contributors on their club teams, except for Bridget Baker. And next year's commits aren't rounding out as particularly strong either - again, not bad, but not program elevating. I think you'll have to wait another year or two and if Vermont improves to see if he really is head coach material. Obviously, UVM didn't think so.
Vermont
Rachel Ade .....................D ........................(Boston Shamrocks) ..........................Davenport, FL
Victoria Andreakos ............F ..........................(Toronto Aeros) ................................Aurora, ON
Bridget Baker ....................F ...............................(NAHA) .................................Los Gatos, CA
Cassidy Campeau ..............F ........................(Nepean Wildcats) ............................Nepean, ON
Sarah Kelly ......................F/D .............................(NAHA) ..............................Binghampton, NY
Madi Litchfield ..................G .......................(Boston Shamrocks) ...........................Williston, VT
Casey Leveillee ................ F ..............................(Assabet) ............................................. NY
Well, he was good enough for Jim Plumer to keep when he was hired, so that is a positive recommendation as Plumer is a good coach. That being said, I look at the recruiting class for this year (Kimball largely owns this) - see below - and I don't feel like it is an outstanding class that has a major impact on their future success. Litchfield is by far the best of the group and is a strong goalie, but the rest of the players are pretty much second tier contributors on their club teams, except for Bridget Baker. And next year's commits aren't rounding out as particularly strong either - again, not bad, but not program elevating. I think you'll have to wait another year or two and if Vermont improves to see if he really is head coach material. Obviously, UVM didn't think so.
Vermont
Rachel Ade .....................D ........................(Boston Shamrocks) ..........................Davenport, FL
Victoria Andreakos ............F ..........................(Toronto Aeros) ................................Aurora, ON
Bridget Baker ....................F ...............................(NAHA) .................................Los Gatos, CA
Cassidy Campeau ..............F ........................(Nepean Wildcats) ............................Nepean, ON
Sarah Kelly ......................F/D .............................(NAHA) ..............................Binghampton, NY
Madi Litchfield ..................G .......................(Boston Shamrocks) ...........................Williston, VT
Casey Leveillee ................ F ..............................(Assabet) ............................................. NY
Re: Who goes first Lewis or Linstad?
Hux
Would that be your Daughter's 1st choice? If not why?
I'm not bashing anyone. Someone put his name on a list to be considered and I don't believe he is a viable candidate based upon previous performances and such. Hockeyeast33 has great assessment of his upcoming recruits.
Hux I like you, I just wished you would give an argument as to why you disagree with me rather than to state the above. However, I still like you
Hux
Would that be your Daughter's 1st choice? If not why?
I'm not bashing anyone. Someone put his name on a list to be considered and I don't believe he is a viable candidate based upon previous performances and such. Hockeyeast33 has great assessment of his upcoming recruits.
Hux I like you, I just wished you would give an argument as to why you disagree with me rather than to state the above. However, I still like you
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Re: Who goes first Lewis or Linstad?
Agreed, and further, because Vermont sucks so bad, they prevented BC from Co-winning Hockey East regular season, thus starting the ball rolling on BC being in the not so enviable position of facing Minnesota in the FF semis. When I look at Vermont, I see a team that works hard and steals games. They played with a short bench a lot of the year, went the bulk of the first semester (roughly 2/3 of their games) without Pelkey, who was injured at USA Camp, then lost Myren in the second half, and Huertas at the end, yet still managed to stay in most of their games.
I don't know how someone can say a coach is not a good recruiter when that staff has been in place for less than a year. With all the UVM coach bashing that happened on this board less than a year ago, and the way some people, players and families alike, follow this board like it's the bible, the UVM coaching staff (Coach Kimball specifically) should be commended for pulling in as solid a class as he has.
There are very few qualified to analyze or judge the efforts of any member of a coaching staff, because there are very few who have ALL the accurate information, and I don't think many of them are contributors here. There are a whole lot of people who can hide behind the curtain and condemn as if they know it all though.
Have to admit that "sucks" doesn't exactly qualify as expert analysis.
Agreed, and further, because Vermont sucks so bad, they prevented BC from Co-winning Hockey East regular season, thus starting the ball rolling on BC being in the not so enviable position of facing Minnesota in the FF semis. When I look at Vermont, I see a team that works hard and steals games. They played with a short bench a lot of the year, went the bulk of the first semester (roughly 2/3 of their games) without Pelkey, who was injured at USA Camp, then lost Myren in the second half, and Huertas at the end, yet still managed to stay in most of their games.
I don't know how someone can say a coach is not a good recruiter when that staff has been in place for less than a year. With all the UVM coach bashing that happened on this board less than a year ago, and the way some people, players and families alike, follow this board like it's the bible, the UVM coaching staff (Coach Kimball specifically) should be commended for pulling in as solid a class as he has.
There are very few qualified to analyze or judge the efforts of any member of a coaching staff, because there are very few who have ALL the accurate information, and I don't think many of them are contributors here. There are a whole lot of people who can hide behind the curtain and condemn as if they know it all though.
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HockeyEast33
New member
Re: Who goes first Lewis or Linstad?
One tie against BC doesn't mean that Vermont suddenly is a good team, especially when they are outshot 54-17 - they basically had one outstanding goalie game.
It's true we don't know everything that is going on at UVM nor any program. But we do have insight into some things and are free to form opinions based on those. Here is the available evidence.
- Their record wasn't dramatically better than the previous seasons (8 wins this year, 4, 7, 10, 7, 8 in the 5 previous seasons).
- This season's recruiting class is average and not one that will elevate the program into the top half of Hockey East - and Kimball has been in place throughout the coaching transition and was recruiting these kids way more than a year ago so he doesn't get the usual pass of a new coaching staff - if anything, Plumer should have been more attractive than Bothwell and that should have helped him in recruiting.
- The "announcements" for the 2014-2015 class for UVM (see below) are actually better than I realized - I missed the Willard listing previously and she is a catch for the program. The other 2 are solid but not spectacular. Willard is the kind of kid who can elevate a program to the next level.
Vermont
Taylor Willard..................D.....................(US A 18s/Chicago Mission)...............Naperville, IL
Amanda Drobot ................D ...................(NJ Colonials) ...................... NJ
Katherine Pate .................D .................(Assabet Valley) .................... ME
If you look way back in one of the Hockey East threads, I had projected Vermont potentially as high as 5th (I think) in the league this season and I have confidence in Coach Plumer. But you still need to give it another season or two to see if it pans out and Kimball's stock rides with the success of this program.
One tie against BC doesn't mean that Vermont suddenly is a good team, especially when they are outshot 54-17 - they basically had one outstanding goalie game.
It's true we don't know everything that is going on at UVM nor any program. But we do have insight into some things and are free to form opinions based on those. Here is the available evidence.
- Their record wasn't dramatically better than the previous seasons (8 wins this year, 4, 7, 10, 7, 8 in the 5 previous seasons).
- This season's recruiting class is average and not one that will elevate the program into the top half of Hockey East - and Kimball has been in place throughout the coaching transition and was recruiting these kids way more than a year ago so he doesn't get the usual pass of a new coaching staff - if anything, Plumer should have been more attractive than Bothwell and that should have helped him in recruiting.
- The "announcements" for the 2014-2015 class for UVM (see below) are actually better than I realized - I missed the Willard listing previously and she is a catch for the program. The other 2 are solid but not spectacular. Willard is the kind of kid who can elevate a program to the next level.
Vermont
Taylor Willard..................D.....................(US A 18s/Chicago Mission)...............Naperville, IL
Amanda Drobot ................D ...................(NJ Colonials) ...................... NJ
Katherine Pate .................D .................(Assabet Valley) .................... ME
If you look way back in one of the Hockey East threads, I had projected Vermont potentially as high as 5th (I think) in the league this season and I have confidence in Coach Plumer. But you still need to give it another season or two to see if it pans out and Kimball's stock rides with the success of this program.
Re: Who goes first Lewis or Linstad?
Vermont was 6th in a league that until the last weekend had teams 3 and 6 separated by 2 points. That is darn close to meeting your expectations. They tied Northeastern, BC, and Providence in games, won the series against UNH, played 2/3 games against BU tight - losing by just a goal, and did so playing without key players most of the season.
I knew about Willard, but didn't remember if she was posted yet, and yes, she can be a solid foundation for a team looking to build success. I actually agree with many of your points, but if Kimball is recruiting for Bothwell, and there is a TON of negative surrounding him, and no guarantee that he would not continue as head coach throughout the career of said recruits, (the situation for the last two years Bothwell was there), how is Kimball able to effectively sell the program? That Plumer was impressed enough with him to retain him, and trust him while facing a complete change in the mindset of the team he inherited seems to me to speak to Kimball's worth as a coach.
What happens with UVM in the future obviously remains to be seen. I generally just get tired of the witch hunt that goes on every year because someone is disgruntled, or too impatient to let progress happen.
I am in no way throwing ideas to this shark tank, but I'd be more concerned with what is happening on teams that have what looks on paper to be a far superior team, but that consistently find a way to not play to expectations, or achieve their ultimate goals, than worried about a team that has far less talent and/or speed "meeting expectations".
Vermont was 6th in a league that until the last weekend had teams 3 and 6 separated by 2 points. That is darn close to meeting your expectations. They tied Northeastern, BC, and Providence in games, won the series against UNH, played 2/3 games against BU tight - losing by just a goal, and did so playing without key players most of the season.
I knew about Willard, but didn't remember if she was posted yet, and yes, she can be a solid foundation for a team looking to build success. I actually agree with many of your points, but if Kimball is recruiting for Bothwell, and there is a TON of negative surrounding him, and no guarantee that he would not continue as head coach throughout the career of said recruits, (the situation for the last two years Bothwell was there), how is Kimball able to effectively sell the program? That Plumer was impressed enough with him to retain him, and trust him while facing a complete change in the mindset of the team he inherited seems to me to speak to Kimball's worth as a coach.
What happens with UVM in the future obviously remains to be seen. I generally just get tired of the witch hunt that goes on every year because someone is disgruntled, or too impatient to let progress happen.
I am in no way throwing ideas to this shark tank, but I'd be more concerned with what is happening on teams that have what looks on paper to be a far superior team, but that consistently find a way to not play to expectations, or achieve their ultimate goals, than worried about a team that has far less talent and/or speed "meeting expectations".
OnMAA
Vort Doen.....Heija Heija Heija
Re: Who goes first Lewis or Linstad?
THIS !... is worth repeating:
"There are very few qualified to analyze or judge the efforts of any member of a coaching staff, because there are very few who have ALL the accurate information, and I don't think many of them are contributors here. There are a whole lot of people who can hide behind the curtain and condemn as if they know it all though."
THIS !... is worth repeating:
"There are very few qualified to analyze or judge the efforts of any member of a coaching staff, because there are very few who have ALL the accurate information, and I don't think many of them are contributors here. There are a whole lot of people who can hide behind the curtain and condemn as if they know it all though."
Re: Who goes first Lewis or Linstad?
Well said! Which Teams do you see as under performing or not playing up to potential in the League?
Well said! Which Teams do you see as under performing or not playing up to potential in the League?
HockeyEast33
New member
Re: Who goes first Lewis or Linstad?
OK. Let's shut down the forum because nobody is qualified or allowed to have an opinion on coaches based on the facts known to them and if you don't have all the facts then you should just shut up because coaches are God-like. This position should shut down pretty much 99.9999% of all forums, boards, etc. on any coach related subject. Apparently coaches are above analysis and criticism.
The reality is that coaches are subject to praise and criticism based on their success, just like everyone else. In my opinion (God forbid I should have one) based on the facts I have (record this season and next 2 recruiting classes), the jury is out on the Vermont staff at this point, including Kimball. One additional question specific to Kimball - it appears he was the recruiter at North Dakota the year that the Lamoreaux's decided to go to MN, and they came to ND the year after he left - this wouldn't be a great commentary if it were true.
OK. Let's shut down the forum because nobody is qualified or allowed to have an opinion on coaches based on the facts known to them and if you don't have all the facts then you should just shut up because coaches are God-like. This position should shut down pretty much 99.9999% of all forums, boards, etc. on any coach related subject. Apparently coaches are above analysis and criticism.
The reality is that coaches are subject to praise and criticism based on their success, just like everyone else. In my opinion (God forbid I should have one) based on the facts I have (record this season and next 2 recruiting classes), the jury is out on the Vermont staff at this point, including Kimball. One additional question specific to Kimball - it appears he was the recruiter at North Dakota the year that the Lamoreaux's decided to go to MN, and they came to ND the year after he left - this wouldn't be a great commentary if it were true.
96IllinoisDad
New member
Re: Who goes first Lewis or Linstad?
Well, by this logic, I think we can all safely assume Nadine Muzerall will be the next HC at UConn and stop the discussion.
Well, by this logic, I think we can all safely assume Nadine Muzerall will be the next HC at UConn and stop the discussion.
Re: Who goes first Lewis or Linstad?
I have absolutely no problem with opinions, but when they single out specific individuals as performing sub par, or not meeting expectations, I prefer to see that opinion backed by specific facts. You seem very well informed about some teams, and I have come to respect your posts. Indeed, you referred to UVM's record this year, and that it wasn't "dramatically better than the previous seasons (8 wins this year, 4, 7, 10, 7, 8 in the 5 previous seasons). " True, the record wasn't, but the games were more competitive, and I would argue that the league is much better top to bottom, so to have any improvement is a bigger step forward than it might appear. UNH's record wasn't "dramatically" improved, but the product on the ice most certainly was.
The climb <back> up the standings is much harder than the fall, and in Vermont's case, they have a legacy of being a bottom, or near bottom feeder in Hockey East. It takes more than one season with a new coach to convince recruits that the school and staff want to be a winning program - it's changing a legacy. I have seen a number of next year's recruits, and you might be surprised at some of the less renown players ability to contribute.
Also - remember this whole dialog started in response to the blanket statement "Vermont sucks...", not your response!
OK. Let's shut down the forum because nobody is qualified or allowed to have an opinion on coaches based on the facts known to them and if you don't have all the facts then you should just shut up because coaches are God-like. This position should shut down pretty much 99.9999% of all forums, boards, etc. on any coach related subject. Apparently coaches are above analysis and criticism.
The reality is that coaches are subject to praise and criticism based on their success, just like everyone else. In my opinion (God forbid I should have one) based on the facts I have (record this season and next 2 recruiting classes), the jury is out on the Vermont staff at this point, including Kimball. One additional question specific to Kimball - it appears he was the recruiter at North Dakota the year that the Lamoreaux's decided to go to MN, and they came to ND the year after he left - this wouldn't be a great commentary if it were true.
I have absolutely no problem with opinions, but when they single out specific individuals as performing sub par, or not meeting expectations, I prefer to see that opinion backed by specific facts. You seem very well informed about some teams, and I have come to respect your posts. Indeed, you referred to UVM's record this year, and that it wasn't "dramatically better than the previous seasons (8 wins this year, 4, 7, 10, 7, 8 in the 5 previous seasons). " True, the record wasn't, but the games were more competitive, and I would argue that the league is much better top to bottom, so to have any improvement is a bigger step forward than it might appear. UNH's record wasn't "dramatically" improved, but the product on the ice most certainly was.
The climb <back> up the standings is much harder than the fall, and in Vermont's case, they have a legacy of being a bottom, or near bottom feeder in Hockey East. It takes more than one season with a new coach to convince recruits that the school and staff want to be a winning program - it's changing a legacy. I have seen a number of next year's recruits, and you might be surprised at some of the less renown players ability to contribute.
Also - remember this whole dialog started in response to the blanket statement "Vermont sucks...", not your response!
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Blackbeard
Well-known member
Re: Who goes first Lewis or Linstad?
With respect to the first line past experience here has lead me to conclude that some actually belive that.
With respect to the second one, I recall reading that he left UND to head east to be closer to his father who was having some health issues. For what it's worth, my opinion of Kimball from personal experience is that he is a complete class act.
With respect to the first line past experience here has lead me to conclude that some actually belive that.
With respect to the second one, I recall reading that he left UND to head east to be closer to his father who was having some health issues. For what it's worth, my opinion of Kimball from personal experience is that he is a complete class act.
brookyone
Deport Right Wing Nuts
Re: Who goes first Lewis or Linstad?
I don't think you can fault Kimball for those circumstances. Much more likely Idalski's predecessor was responsible.
Hux
Alfond to Ridder & rinks in between
Re: Who goes first Lewis or Linstad?
You have good opinions based on solid knowledge of teams and players. However, you site a perfect example of why you can't really indite a coach like Kimball (and Gilligan) for recruiting, and thus results or lack thereof. (Basically the best salesman in the world is going to have difficulty selling an Edsel to a buyer.)
Both Kimball and Maria Lewis were at North Dakota in 2007. Now if ever there were two players who would in all likelihood end up playing for North Dakota it would have been the Twins. The family legacy practically dictated they would play for the Sioux/Whioux. Yet despite this they ended up at Minnesota. No matter how much wrangling the coaching trio of Idalski, Lewis, and Kimball did (and one has to assume short of a headlock there was a lot of wrangling) they failed in landing the dynamic (and occasionally reckless) duo.
As for the Twins ultimately ending up in Green, well I think you can imagine the conversation over Christmas dinner 2008....something along the lines of "Girls, you are killing us! Seven hours driving through the wastelands of Minnesota to see you play. Your brother is in Colorado. We love you, but there is a limit. You must come home!"
You have good opinions based on solid knowledge of teams and players. However, you site a perfect example of why you can't really indite a coach like Kimball (and Gilligan) for recruiting, and thus results or lack thereof. (Basically the best salesman in the world is going to have difficulty selling an Edsel to a buyer.)
Both Kimball and Maria Lewis were at North Dakota in 2007. Now if ever there were two players who would in all likelihood end up playing for North Dakota it would have been the Twins. The family legacy practically dictated they would play for the Sioux/Whioux. Yet despite this they ended up at Minnesota. No matter how much wrangling the coaching trio of Idalski, Lewis, and Kimball did (and one has to assume short of a headlock there was a lot of wrangling) they failed in landing the dynamic (and occasionally reckless) duo.
As for the Twins ultimately ending up in Green, well I think you can imagine the conversation over Christmas dinner 2008....something along the lines of "Girls, you are killing us! Seven hours driving through the wastelands of Minnesota to see you play. Your brother is in Colorado. We love you, but there is a limit. You must come home!"
OnMAA
Vort Doen.....Heija Heija Heija
Re: Who goes first Lewis or Linstad?
I have no problem with valid and constructive criticism, however, as DC so eloquently said, tearing people down and saying they suck without any valid arguments, or arguments based on opinion rather than facts can lead to the good old "lynch mob" mentality. And by golly there have been plenty of examples on this board that got pretty ugly.
I've met Mr Kimball on many occasions, and have nothing but the utmost respect for him. I can't speak to his coaching, as I have no first hand knowledge of how UVM is coached. All I can say is that they had a few rough years, and this year appears to be a rebound from the low they had last year.
OK. Let's shut down the forum because nobody is qualified or allowed to have an opinion on coaches based on the facts known to them and if you don't have all the facts then you should just shut up because coaches are God-like. This position should shut down pretty much 99.9999% of all forums, boards, etc. on any coach related subject. Apparently coaches are above analysis and criticism.
The reality is that coaches are subject to praise and criticism based on their success, just like everyone else. In my opinion (God forbid I should have one) based on the facts I have (record this season and next 2 recruiting classes), the jury is out on the Vermont staff at this point, including Kimball. One additional question specific to Kimball - it appears he was the recruiter at North Dakota the year that the Lamoreaux's decided to go to MN, and they came to ND the year after he left - this wouldn't be a great commentary if it were true.
I have no problem with valid and constructive criticism, however, as DC so eloquently said, tearing people down and saying they suck without any valid arguments, or arguments based on opinion rather than facts can lead to the good old "lynch mob" mentality. And by golly there have been plenty of examples on this board that got pretty ugly.
I've met Mr Kimball on many occasions, and have nothing but the utmost respect for him. I can't speak to his coaching, as I have no first hand knowledge of how UVM is coached. All I can say is that they had a few rough years, and this year appears to be a rebound from the low they had last year.