Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
I did, and was responding to it, you moron.
I did, and was responding to it, you moron.
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Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
- Thread starter PrezdeJohnson09
- Start date
NorthernBlight
Registered User
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
If you read it why did you ask the question?
If you read it why did you ask the question?
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Because that post didn't address the contingencies I mentioned later, OK?
Because that post didn't address the contingencies I mentioned later, OK?
CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
Nate LePage, Siena '13
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Actually, it did...
Current: 8 Pool A, 0 Pool B, 3 Pool C
Next Year (no NCHA): 7 Pool A, 1 Pool B, 3 Pool C
7 ECACW teams: 8 pool A, 0 Pool B, 3 Pool C
If the ECAC-W doesn't get its 7th team, we stay in the second scenario until something else changes. Pool B would be reserved for the ECAC-W and WIAC (the non-AQ conferences), and everyone would be eligible for Pool C. In theory, the ECAC-W would be eligible for 4 bids compared to the current 3, just like every other conference, but unlike the AQ conferences, there would be a possibility of the ECAC-W being completely shut out.
Historically, Pool B has been a de facto AQ for the ECAC-W. For years, the MCHA got shut out and guaranteed the ECAC-W a berth. Then the MASCAC kept Pool B alive for 2 more years, but since they got their AQ the ECAC-W has had to deal with the idea that the might not get a bid if they all have a sub-par season. With Pool B coming back after the WIAC schools go to play in their own sandbox, I wouldn't call it a lock for the ECAC-W as it had been in the past. Eau Claire, River Falls, Stevens Point, Stout, and Superior have all had their respective fantastic seasons over the years. One of them gets really hot in a given year, and no ECAC-W team steps up to the plate that year, and you could still see the ECAC-W shut out. That's why the 7th team for the ECAC-W is so important.
Actually, it did...
Current: 8 Pool A, 0 Pool B, 3 Pool C
Next Year (no NCHA): 7 Pool A, 1 Pool B, 3 Pool C
7 ECACW teams: 8 pool A, 0 Pool B, 3 Pool C
If the ECAC-W doesn't get its 7th team, we stay in the second scenario until something else changes. Pool B would be reserved for the ECAC-W and WIAC (the non-AQ conferences), and everyone would be eligible for Pool C. In theory, the ECAC-W would be eligible for 4 bids compared to the current 3, just like every other conference, but unlike the AQ conferences, there would be a possibility of the ECAC-W being completely shut out.
Historically, Pool B has been a de facto AQ for the ECAC-W. For years, the MCHA got shut out and guaranteed the ECAC-W a berth. Then the MASCAC kept Pool B alive for 2 more years, but since they got their AQ the ECAC-W has had to deal with the idea that the might not get a bid if they all have a sub-par season. With Pool B coming back after the WIAC schools go to play in their own sandbox, I wouldn't call it a lock for the ECAC-W as it had been in the past. Eau Claire, River Falls, Stevens Point, Stout, and Superior have all had their respective fantastic seasons over the years. One of them gets really hot in a given year, and no ECAC-W team steps up to the plate that year, and you could still see the ECAC-W shut out. That's why the 7th team for the ECAC-W is so important.
norm1909
Larry Normandin
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
I was thinking tonight that I'm glad the W doesn't have a traditional AQ this year, since it will likely go to Neumann.
The Knights have an impressive resume, yes, with wins over Utica, Hobart and Norwich, but I wouldn't think it fair to see them displace either UC or HC for an AL bid, based on their complete body of work... And even if they win the W tournament, I don't believe they'll have made up enough ground in that process to do so.
Thanks, guys, and especially to CRTB.
I'm liking next year's version of the process better than I usually do. In this plastic format, all one can hope for is as many available AL berths as are possible in a given year.
I was thinking tonight that I'm glad the W doesn't have a traditional AQ this year, since it will likely go to Neumann.
The Knights have an impressive resume, yes, with wins over Utica, Hobart and Norwich, but I wouldn't think it fair to see them displace either UC or HC for an AL bid, based on their complete body of work... And even if they win the W tournament, I don't believe they'll have made up enough ground in that process to do so.
Thanks, guys, and especially to CRTB.
I'm liking next year's version of the process better than I usually do. In this plastic format, all one can hope for is as many available AL berths as are possible in a given year.
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CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
Nate LePage, Siena '13
<Strike>While I would tend to agree with you, to my knowledge only one ECAC-W champion has ever been left watching from home by the committee, and that was Manhattanville, who got left out of the 2010 tournament despite beating Elmira in OT a few days before (Elmira got in instead of the Valiants). Other than that, the tournament winner of the ECAC-W has never missed the tournament.</strike>
Edit: nevermind... Nothing to see here!
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Didn't Hobart get hot at the end of last season, win the W tournament, and get left out of NCAA's?
CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
Nate LePage, Siena '13
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
You've got to be kidding me? Funny how your tune does a complete 180 after Utica loses.
norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
He obviously doesn't follow hockey, only his local bar team.
Here is a hint fishman, Fishing Hole A - yet - Fishing Hole B
He obviously doesn't follow hockey, only his local bar team.
Here is a hint fishman, Fishing Hole A - yet - Fishing Hole B
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
I admit it took me a while to understand Bracketology, but this is ridiculous
I admit it took me a while to understand Bracketology, but this is ridiculous
petrietodonovan
New member
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Wow. I think the name of this thread should be changed to "Canton to the Sunyac?"
It seems that maybe the seven teams to a conference barrier needs to be looked at again. It really could be moved up to eight without much heartburn. You'd be eliminating the AQ for MASCAC. Moving it to nine would take care of the AQ the ECAC-NE. It'd really lend some credibility to the regular season of some of these conferences if teams were eliminated from playoff contention by virtue of their regular season records.
Of course I say this watching mostly Nescac and ECAC-E, nice fat 10 team conferences.
Watching how the bottom six in ECAC-NE fare in OOC play really brings another dimension to this Sunyac v. ECAC-W debate. Something tells me the bottom of Sunyac would pound most of the ECAC-NE. No data to back it put....but there it is.
Wow. I think the name of this thread should be changed to "Canton to the Sunyac?"
It seems that maybe the seven teams to a conference barrier needs to be looked at again. It really could be moved up to eight without much heartburn. You'd be eliminating the AQ for MASCAC. Moving it to nine would take care of the AQ the ECAC-NE. It'd really lend some credibility to the regular season of some of these conferences if teams were eliminated from playoff contention by virtue of their regular season records.
Of course I say this watching mostly Nescac and ECAC-E, nice fat 10 team conferences.
Watching how the bottom six in ECAC-NE fare in OOC play really brings another dimension to this Sunyac v. ECAC-W debate. Something tells me the bottom of Sunyac would pound most of the ECAC-NE. No data to back it put....but there it is.
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
It's not that simple.
The 7 team = autobid rule is across the board for all D3 sports. They aren't going to adjust it just for hockey.
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
I've thought about this in regard to all D3 sports and wondered what the impact would be. The source of Pool C bids is in the excess of teams in Pool A conferences above the 6.5 teams per slot NCAA mandate. 7 is too close to 6.5 for many at large bids to be created when leagues tend to hover right at the minimums. Making the minimum for a bid 8 instead of 7 would make sense, but there is another factor - you now throw all of the 7 team conferences into Pool B and that could actually end us right back in the same place. Non-winners in Pool A conferences wouldn't get to "swim" in Pool B.
I've thought about this in regard to all D3 sports and wondered what the impact would be. The source of Pool C bids is in the excess of teams in Pool A conferences above the 6.5 teams per slot NCAA mandate. 7 is too close to 6.5 for many at large bids to be created when leagues tend to hover right at the minimums. Making the minimum for a bid 8 instead of 7 would make sense, but there is another factor - you now throw all of the 7 team conferences into Pool B and that could actually end us right back in the same place. Non-winners in Pool A conferences wouldn't get to "swim" in Pool B.
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
You missed my point, but perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly.
Utica is a lock for a Pool B bid, IMO. Not worried about that, since the committee isn't obliged to place the W tournament winner there... But if Neumann or (God forbid) M'ville wins on Saturday, either team might illogically displace Hobart in Pool C, a team that certainly deserves a berth in general terms, and definitely one before of either NU or MC.
Haven't done a 180, PJ... Why should I? One loss to a pretty good team in a conference tournament shouldn't count any more than losing to that same team in the RS... That one game was just one of 25 UC has played, and it gets buried a bit, statistically, in that much-larger sample.
You missed my point, but perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly.
Utica is a lock for a Pool B bid, IMO. Not worried about that, since the committee isn't obliged to place the W tournament winner there... But if Neumann or (God forbid) M'ville wins on Saturday, either team might illogically displace Hobart in Pool C, a team that certainly deserves a berth in general terms, and definitely one before of either NU or MC.
Haven't done a 180, PJ... Why should I? One loss to a pretty good team in a conference tournament shouldn't count any more than losing to that same team in the RS... That one game was just one of 25 UC has played, and it gets buried a bit, statistically, in that much-larger sample.
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norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Hopefully you are being clairvoyant about some future year, because this year the numbers of pool b bids to awarded is: Zero.
Hopefully you are being clairvoyant about some future year, because this year the numbers of pool b bids to awarded is: Zero.