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Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
- Thread starter PrezdeJohnson09
- Start date
CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
Nate LePage, Siena '13
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
And why do you think there are more DIII teams in the east than in the west? Because hockey is more popular? Certainly not! It's because travel is cheaper, and therefore it is slightly more feasible to field a team on a shoestring budget out here in the east.
And why do you think there are more DIII teams in the east than in the west? Because hockey is more popular? Certainly not! It's because travel is cheaper, and therefore it is slightly more feasible to field a team on a shoestring budget out here in the east.
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Actually, with the big exception of Minnesota, yes, hockey is more "popular" in the East.
In states like Wisconsin and Michigan hockey is pretty popular, but nothing compared to Football or even Basketball. That's why their Football stadiums seat 100K. Hockey in the state of Illinois is almost a complete non-factor outside of the Chicagoland area. There is no Football climate remotely similar in the states of New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, or Maine.
What was your impression of the hockey climate the last time you visited the mid west?
Actually, with the big exception of Minnesota, yes, hockey is more "popular" in the East.
In states like Wisconsin and Michigan hockey is pretty popular, but nothing compared to Football or even Basketball. That's why their Football stadiums seat 100K. Hockey in the state of Illinois is almost a complete non-factor outside of the Chicagoland area. There is no Football climate remotely similar in the states of New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, or Maine.
What was your impression of the hockey climate the last time you visited the mid west?
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CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
Nate LePage, Siena '13
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
I still don't see how this gets around the NCAA's new restriction on umbrella conferences awarding multiple auto-bids. The only possibility I could see would be 1 AQ, determined similarly to the way Atlantic Hockey is doing it now (which, in both cases, is horribly imbalanced). Give the top 2 in each division a bye. First round is 3v6 and 4v5 in each division. Then you could either keep everything in-division until the finals (and thus mandate that only 1 of Platty/Oz/Elmira ever makes the conference finals), or you can revert to overall seeding after the first round.
Another suggestion to make it more balanced once Canton joins: is the ECAC-E still absolutely dead-set against Manhattanville's men's team joining the league their women's team plays in anyway?
I still don't see how this gets around the NCAA's new restriction on umbrella conferences awarding multiple auto-bids. The only possibility I could see would be 1 AQ, determined similarly to the way Atlantic Hockey is doing it now (which, in both cases, is horribly imbalanced). Give the top 2 in each division a bye. First round is 3v6 and 4v5 in each division. Then you could either keep everything in-division until the finals (and thus mandate that only 1 of Platty/Oz/Elmira ever makes the conference finals), or you can revert to overall seeding after the first round.
Another suggestion to make it more balanced once Canton joins: is the ECAC-E still absolutely dead-set against Manhattanville's men's team joining the league their women's team plays in anyway?
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Certainly Manhattanville going to the ECAC-E, once Canton joins would allow Morrisville to move to the South and balance both leagues. As for the NCAA, exceptional circumstances demand exceptions.
Also, given the historical success of both SUNYAC & ECAC-West securing Pool C bids, it does make it palatable (though IMO unsportsmanlike) to have only 1 AQ..
Certainly Manhattanville going to the ECAC-E, once Canton joins would allow Morrisville to move to the South and balance both leagues. As for the NCAA, exceptional circumstances demand exceptions.
Also, given the historical success of both SUNYAC & ECAC-West securing Pool C bids, it does make it palatable (though IMO unsportsmanlike) to have only 1 AQ..
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MountieBoyOz
Eater of Worlds
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
The prospect of Wick/Elmira or EC/Oz in the same conference has Mr. Dunning drooling.
The prospect of Wick/Elmira or EC/Oz in the same conference has Mr. Dunning drooling.
Russell Jaslow
Registered User
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Scott wrote that in his piece last year. One of the best lines Scott ever wrote! I still LMAO whenever I read it.
Scott wrote that in his piece last year. One of the best lines Scott ever wrote! I still LMAO whenever I read it.
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
The NCAA doesn't regard the ECAC as being an umbrella, because the ECAC hockey leagues do operate independently of each other - in most ways the ECAC is more of an intermediate organization sitting between the NCAA and individual conferences. However if a real conference were to try to operate with two divisions but asking for two Pool A slots they'd be turned down. The umbrella thing came up, as I recall, when a conference in the mid-Atlantic tried to do exactly the same thing with football that you are proposing that the SUNYAC do with hockey. As norm said logic... (and don't expect logic from the NCAA)
The NCAA doesn't regard the ECAC as being an umbrella, because the ECAC hockey leagues do operate independently of each other - in most ways the ECAC is more of an intermediate organization sitting between the NCAA and individual conferences. However if a real conference were to try to operate with two divisions but asking for two Pool A slots they'd be turned down. The umbrella thing came up, as I recall, when a conference in the mid-Atlantic tried to do exactly the same thing with football that you are proposing that the SUNYAC do with hockey. As norm said logic... (and don't expect logic from the NCAA)
collegehcky2
Vinegar Strokes
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
So, SJFC, Hartwick, and U of R seem to be the only ones and of them, I could see SJFC and U of R as being the only ones with remotely any interest in fielding hockey teams. That being said, I'm not sure how U of R would like to be in a conference with schools that aren't on par academically.
So, SJFC, Hartwick, and U of R seem to be the only ones and of them, I could see SJFC and U of R as being the only ones with remotely any interest in fielding hockey teams. That being said, I'm not sure how U of R would like to be in a conference with schools that aren't on par academically.
LakerEagleLover
New member
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Buffalo to Rye is nearly 400 miles...and no one else close to play once you get there....
Buffalo to Rye is nearly 400 miles...and no one else close to play once you get there....
Russell Jaslow
Registered User
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Originally Posted by PrezdeJohnson09
What I'm more intrigued about is who the two New York schools are that the ECAC has talked to that expessed interest in a team.
The only ones I can think of are Alfred (No place to play), St. John Fisher, Houghton (No place to play), Hartwick, Ithaca (surprisingly, no place to play), University of Rochester , Nazareth (Title IX really cripples them), and SUNY Canton (SUNYAC bound).
Do any of them even have club teams?
Who's to say the Title IX issues won't be resolved by starting BOTH a men's and women's teams?
Scott and I know who one of the schools is, but we can't say. I will say it's one of the schools that people have mentioned.
Originally Posted by PrezdeJohnson09
What I'm more intrigued about is who the two New York schools are that the ECAC has talked to that expessed interest in a team.
The only ones I can think of are Alfred (No place to play), St. John Fisher, Houghton (No place to play), Hartwick, Ithaca (surprisingly, no place to play), University of Rochester , Nazareth (Title IX really cripples them), and SUNY Canton (SUNYAC bound).
Do any of them even have club teams?
Who's to say the Title IX issues won't be resolved by starting BOTH a men's and women's teams?
Scott and I know who one of the schools is, but we can't say. I will say it's one of the schools that people have mentioned.
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PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
I think this would make more sense if it was even feasible.
West: (travel partner)
Brockport-Geneseo
Hobart-Elmira
Buffalo State-Fredonia
Utica-Morrisville
East:
Manhattanville/Neumann
Canton/Potsdam
Cortland/Oswego
Plattsburgh
I think this would make more sense if it was even feasible.
West: (travel partner)
Brockport-Geneseo
Hobart-Elmira
Buffalo State-Fredonia
Utica-Morrisville
East:
Manhattanville/Neumann
Canton/Potsdam
Cortland/Oswego
Plattsburgh
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collegehcky2
Vinegar Strokes
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
If I'm not mistaken, Nazareth is predominantly women. If they added a men's hockey program, they'd probably have to add two women's athletic programs, if I understand Title IX correctly.
If I'm not mistaken, Nazareth is predominantly women. If they added a men's hockey program, they'd probably have to add two women's athletic programs, if I understand Title IX correctly.
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Last I knew the precentage was around 70% women to 30% men.
Lacrosse is the big cheese on that campus...
Last I knew the precentage was around 70% women to 30% men.
Lacrosse is the big cheese on that campus...
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
This is, of course, all RIT's fault.
Prez, the east/west seem to make more sense, however I put Cortland/Oswego in the west and Morrisville/Utica in the east. Your groupings seems to really load up the east.
This is, of course, all RIT's fault.
Prez, the east/west seem to make more sense, however I put Cortland/Oswego in the west and Morrisville/Utica in the east. Your groupings seems to really load up the east.
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LakerEagleLover
New member
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Nazareth 79% Women 21% Men
Elmira College 72/28
Manhattanville 61/39
Geneseo 57/43
Plattsburgh 55/45
Oswego 54/46
National Avg 57/43
Nazareth 79% Women 21% Men
Elmira College 72/28
Manhattanville 61/39
Geneseo 57/43
Plattsburgh 55/45
Oswego 54/46
National Avg 57/43
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norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Once Canton enters, and if Manhattanville were to stay, this would be a likely matchup, with Plattsburgh's in-conference schedule resembling Morrisville's current one (playing someone(s) back-to-back).
Once Canton enters, and if Manhattanville were to stay, this would be a likely matchup, with Plattsburgh's in-conference schedule resembling Morrisville's current one (playing someone(s) back-to-back).
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
I thought about that but I wanted to keep Plattsburgh/Oswego in the same division.
This is, of course, all RIT's fault.
Prez, the east/west seem to make more sense, however I put Cortland/Oswego in the west and Morrisville/Utica in the east. Your groupings seems to really load up the east.
I thought about that but I wanted to keep Plattsburgh/Oswego in the same division.
collegehcky2
Vinegar Strokes
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
What about this? The "old" SUNYAC as one division, that way the rivalries are kept for two games a season. Then ECAC-West teams as a division with Morrisville and Canton added?
Div 1: (travel partner)
Brockport-Geneseo
Potsdam-Plattsburgh
Buffalo State-Fredonia
Cortland-Oswego
Div 2:
Manhattanville-Neumann
Hobart-Elmira
Utica-Morrisville
Canton
What about this? The "old" SUNYAC as one division, that way the rivalries are kept for two games a season. Then ECAC-West teams as a division with Morrisville and Canton added?
Div 1: (travel partner)
Brockport-Geneseo
Potsdam-Plattsburgh
Buffalo State-Fredonia
Cortland-Oswego
Div 2:
Manhattanville-Neumann
Hobart-Elmira
Utica-Morrisville
Canton