Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

[PrezdeJohnson09]

http://www.uscho.com/2010/12/05/who-will-save-the-ecac-west-and-its-teams/

For anyone that hasn't read this yet, I highly suggest reading this feature story/column written by ECAC West correspondent Scott Biggar.

Very informative and some good coach reaction as well as some statements by the ECAC.

When i read the tease, Utica was about the last team I thought of that would be applying to get out of the league.

Neumann and Manhattanville were first on the list.

 

[MountieBoyOz]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Great column by Scott. Thanks for posting it, Prez. If Utica gets into the SUNYAC, we'll be in the same position with uneven teams WHEN (not a matter of if) Canton joins the SUNYAC. Unless there is a long range solution like a New Paltz, Oneonta, or SUNYIT joining then I don't think Utica needs to be in.

ECAC needs to step in and help the West out. I was hoping someone like an Ithaca or Nazareth would join to make a hockey version of the Empire 8, but that's not going to happen. I'd hate to see Elmira, M'Ville and others without a home.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Great column by Scott. Thanks for posting it, Prez. If Utica gets into the SUNYAC, we'll be in the same position with uneven teams WHEN (not a matter of if) Canton joins the SUNYAC. Unless there is a long range solution like a New Paltz, Oneonta, or SUNYIT joining then I don't think Utica needs to be in.

ECAC needs to step in and help the West out. I was hoping someone like an Ithaca or Nazareth would join to make a hockey version of the Empire 8, but that's not going to happen. I'd hate to see Elmira, M'Ville and others without a home.

From the article, it sounds like their hands are tied. Which brings into question what good the ECAC is really doing for the West teams. I believe Scott wrote more an opinion piece last year or maybe it was another poster on here which said "What good is the ECAC if they are nothing more than responsible for assigning officials and giving out weekly awards each week."

What I'm more intrigued about is who the two New York schools are that the ECAC has talked to that expessed interest in a team.

The only ones I can think of are Alfred, St. John Fisher, Houghton, Hartwick, Ithaca, University of Rochester, Nazareth, and SUNY Canton.

Do any of them even have club teams?

 

[MountieBoyOz]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

I know Ithaca has a decent club team, Prez. I do know Stevens in the Empire 8 has a club team as well as Fisher and Nazareth.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

I know Ithaca has a decent club team, Prez. I do know Stevens in the Empire 8 has a club team as well as Fisher and Nazareth.

The only thing with Ithaca is it might be a tough draw with Cornell in town.

Stevens is in New Jersey though correct?

 

[NUProf]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Well, there's always Scranton

I think the best idea would be a merger for hockey purposes of the ECAC W and SUNYAC. The only problem might be the restriction on "umbrella" conferences, which would require that there be just a single conference champion. Scott's two conference plan runs afoul of that I think.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Well, there's always Scranton

I think the best idea would be a merger for hockey purposes of the ECAC W and SUNYAC. The only problem might be the restriction on "umbrella" conferences, which would require that there be just a single conference champion. Scott's two conference plan runs afoul of that I think.

I doubt the SUNYAC would go for it if there was only one bid. It doesn't help them in anyway.

 

[Scott Biggar]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

The "umbrella" conference idea is nothing different than what the ECAC is today, with the current ECAC East, Northeast, and West. However, because of the SUNYAC restriction that their teams must operate under their auspices, any kind of merger between the SUNYAC and the ECAC West would have to operate under a SUNYAC "umbrella" instead of under the current ECAC "umbrella".

 

[norm1909]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Logic ....

 

[collegehcky2]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Logic ....

Moving on....

The ECAC West teams remaining could conceivably go independent, correct? They'd just be competing for a Pool C each year which is essentially going to happen after the MASCAC gets their autobid anyways. Sure, once leagues' play begins there'd be fewer opportunities for games, but in that case the independents could play each other. Just thinking out loud here.

 

[ballgame]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Side note but its hard to do business with NCAA right now. NCAA needs to add more programs but the cost to do that is extremely expensive with Title IX and such. The big news of adding new teams are already established (Canton). They need to do something to incent schools to start programs.

Seems like there is going to be constant shuffling until NCAA can get a handle on this. Took a miracle just to start the PSU NCAA program. And that was miracle because I doubt another school would find an alum that generous

Ok im going to read the article now

 

[MountieBoyOz]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Far fetched idea, but let me throw it out. You could have the ECAC NE swallow the four remaining teams to make a 12 team league.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Far fetched idea, but let me throw it out. You could have the ECAC NE swallow the four remaining teams to make a 12 team league.

Logic...

It appears that no existing teams are willing to join the ECAC West but maybe the ECAC East and Northeast can step forward to take two teams each. But the Northeast teams effectively pushed Lebanon Valley out of the league due to travel distances involved, so the likelihood of accepting a team outside of their traditional geographical area such as Neumann, Hobart or Elmira is low.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Moving on....

The ECAC West teams remaining could conceivably go independent, correct? They'd just be competing for a Pool C each year which is essentially going to happen after the MASCAC gets their autobid anyways. Sure, once leagues' play begins there'd be fewer opportunities for games, but in that case the independents could play each other. Just thinking out loud here.

Logic...

The combination of only being eligible for an at-large bid from Pool C while all other teams chase after automatic qualifiers puts the ECAC West teams at a big disadvantage.

 

[altazo]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Far fetched idea, but let me throw it out. You could have the ECAC NE swallow the four remaining teams to make a 12 team league.

Yes, except the majority of the NE teams are more less afraid to play those schools on a regular basis, or pay for the travel involved. To me, merging the East and West seems to make more sense as the East seems more similar to the West in terms of level of play, financial commitment to the programs, facilities, etc. etc.

edit: Especially with the end of the East's interlock with the NESCAC.

 

[ballgame]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Looks like SUNYAC meeting starts today and could have a Utica vote

Being a ACHA coach and helping design our league bylaws. Isn’t it an issue for a SUNYAC coach to tell another coach about the change? There will probably be a couple of schools that apply to join. If Utica gets approved wouldn’t that cause or be an issue?

I don’t see how Utica wouldn’t be accepted. Except for the bottom tier teams would object to adding a top tier program. But the facility and fan support are added bonuses. Anyone know how many votes is needed to approve a team in SUNYAC? Assuming its ¾.

Being a former EC player I’ve always been proud of playing in the ECAC West.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

From what I know the ECAC East teams have no interest in adding five more competitive teams into the mix that will make it even harder for middle tier teams to be able to ursurp Norwich, NEC, Babson etc from receiving the autobid.

The problem lies in that every other conference has what they need in order to get an NCAA qualifier so why would they want to add more teams into the mix to make it harder. Plus, travel is also a big concern for the ECAC East schools. Elmira, Hobart, Neumann would be very long hauls for many of the teams. It takes me 6 hours to get from Northfield to my house in Big Flats and that would roughly be what it takes for Norwich to get to the Domes. I don't even want to know what the travel would be like for USM and UNE to those locations. If the ECAC going to fly teams like the NCAA for over 500 mile bus trips?

With no conference having the power to force realignment, the ECAC West is plain and simply screwed unless some major strings can be pulled to figure out a way to get every team as an adjunct member into the SUNYAC and create two auto-bids from it with seven teams in each league. I'd put the possibilities of that happening on slim to none.

The old NYCHA makes a ton of sense geographically, but what do the SUNYAC schools get out of it if there aren't two auto bids?

 

[altazo]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

I don’t see how Utica wouldn’t be accepted.

Yup, I don't see how you turn down a team that averages 3,000+ per home contest. Especially if you are seeking a 10th team for scheduling purposes, and geographically they make sense.

 

[altazo]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

. Plus, travel is also a big concern for the ECAC East schools. Elmira, Hobart, Neumann would be very long hauls for many of the teams. It takes me 6 hours to get from Northfield to my house in Big Flats and that would roughly be what it takes for Norwich to get to the Domes.

Child's play compared to what the Western region teams are doing.

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

From the article, it sounds like their hands are tied. Which brings into question what good the ECAC is really doing for the West teams. I believe Scott wrote more an opinion piece last year or maybe it was another poster on here which said "What good is the ECAC if they are nothing more than responsible for assigning officials and giving out weekly awards each week."

What I'm more intrigued about is who the two New York schools are that the ECAC has talked to that expessed interest in a team.

The only ones I can think of are Alfred, St. John Fisher, Houghton, Hartwick, Ithaca, University of Rochester, Nazareth, and SUNY Canton.

Do any of them even have club teams?

I know Ithaca has a decent club team, Prez. I do know Stevens in the Empire 8 has a club team as well as Fisher and Nazareth.

If you look in the comments below Biggar's Column, you'll that somone threw out an unsubstantiated rumor that NYU may have been one of the schools in contact. And you'll also see my comment that NYU's ACHA D2 team is at best a joke right now (Siena's in the same conference as them, we'll be playing a home-and-home with them this weekend. perhaps I can try to find more information.).