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Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season
- Thread starter jcase
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CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
Nate LePage, Siena '13
Not that I recall. The only other time I remember that the host team's rink was unavailable, they weere the "home" team at the other team's rink. Granted, that wasn't a scheduling problem, that one was a "we've already converted the facility to a basketball arena and can't put the ice back until fall" problem. So maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges...
But I doubt they'd go for an afternoon game anyway. Each team is supposed to be able to get an hour of on-ice practice time on gameday. The earlier the game, the less likely you are to be able to do that AND give both teams time to rest up and get into their pregame routines
But that said, I agree that it would suck if UC couldn't host. But they knew that when they agreed to rent out the Aud, and now it's a decision they have to live with.
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Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season
Thanks for the heads up...results of those two games could impact a number of teams (especially Hobart & Neumann).
Thanks for the heads up...results of those two games could impact a number of teams (especially Hobart & Neumann).
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season
Congrats to Utica for making the top of the first list, but be careful. The season isn't over and there's still games to play, and all the opponents Utica is facing will be more than capable of giving the boys a good challenge. Manhattanville, possibly Neumann and Hobart, are all capable of beating Utica and should not be looked past. If you're busy looking at the NCAA tournament, you might miss the games you have to play to get there. Honestly, if Utica does anything but win out, I wouldn't count on getting a bid.
Congrats to Utica for making the top of the first list, but be careful. The season isn't over and there's still games to play, and all the opponents Utica is facing will be more than capable of giving the boys a good challenge. Manhattanville, possibly Neumann and Hobart, are all capable of beating Utica and should not be looked past. If you're busy looking at the NCAA tournament, you might miss the games you have to play to get there. Honestly, if Utica does anything but win out, I wouldn't count on getting a bid.
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season
I can remember three cases off the top of my head.
1. Several years ago, Trinity played in a community rink that was converted to tennis courts for the summer (I think this is the case that you are talking about). They had to play a home game on the road.
2. The most outrageous case of this happened a few years ago (this one should show the inflexibility of the NCAA in these matters). UMass Dartmouth won the the ECAC Northeast, and put in a bid to host a first round game. The committee gave them a high enough ranking to give them a bye, and actually have a home quarterfinal game. Their bid was for a first round game, and since they hadn't put in a bid for a quarterfinal game, but their opponent (Middlebury) had, they had to go to Middlebury. (They did get to be the home team). The NCAA wouldn't allow them to "transfer" the bid to the quarterfinals, even though the facility that UMD rented from was willing to totally rearrange their schedule to allow UMD to host the game.
3. Most recently Hamline was the higher seed for a first round game, but the facility that they rent had melted the ice and shut down for the season. They asked if they could play at a different rink in the same area, The NCAA said no, ruling that the team hosting should have played a majority of its home games at the venue.
The NCAA follows its rules to the letter.
I can remember three cases off the top of my head.
1. Several years ago, Trinity played in a community rink that was converted to tennis courts for the summer (I think this is the case that you are talking about). They had to play a home game on the road.
2. The most outrageous case of this happened a few years ago (this one should show the inflexibility of the NCAA in these matters). UMass Dartmouth won the the ECAC Northeast, and put in a bid to host a first round game. The committee gave them a high enough ranking to give them a bye, and actually have a home quarterfinal game. Their bid was for a first round game, and since they hadn't put in a bid for a quarterfinal game, but their opponent (Middlebury) had, they had to go to Middlebury. (They did get to be the home team). The NCAA wouldn't allow them to "transfer" the bid to the quarterfinals, even though the facility that UMD rented from was willing to totally rearrange their schedule to allow UMD to host the game.
3. Most recently Hamline was the higher seed for a first round game, but the facility that they rent had melted the ice and shut down for the season. They asked if they could play at a different rink in the same area, The NCAA said no, ruling that the team hosting should have played a majority of its home games at the venue.
The NCAA follows its rules to the letter.
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season
Yes there are 3-4 games to be played for sure, but I don't necessarily agree that a single loss puts Utica's bid hopes on life support as all games going forward would likely be against NCAA ranked teams (unless Elmira or Naz somehow ended up at Utica in the W playoffs--M'ville is most likely). Bottom line if UC were to go 3-1, the .750 % vs. NCAA ranked teams barely dents their WIN or RNK.
Yes there are 3-4 games to be played for sure, but I don't necessarily agree that a single loss puts Utica's bid hopes on life support as all games going forward would likely be against NCAA ranked teams (unless Elmira or Naz somehow ended up at Utica in the W playoffs--M'ville is most likely). Bottom line if UC were to go 3-1, the .750 % vs. NCAA ranked teams barely dents their WIN or RNK.
LakerEagleLover
Well-known member
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season
Agreed...without putting a jinx on, I hope the President and Trustees are engaging in "creative conversations" with the Aud and the NYSPHSAA to enable a home game for the Pioneers...
Bennycheck
Registered User
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season
That will be hard to do. The 1st high school game starts at 10:am and the last at 5:45pm The games usually take about an hour and a half to 2 hours. The rule for ties is 4 five minuet overtimes followed by a shoot out. That would put even a 9:00pm start time in question. Add to that the hour each team is required to have for pratice, and I just don't see them pulling it off. I sure hope I'm wrong.
That will be hard to do. The 1st high school game starts at 10:am and the last at 5:45pm The games usually take about an hour and a half to 2 hours. The rule for ties is 4 five minuet overtimes followed by a shoot out. That would put even a 9:00pm start time in question. Add to that the hour each team is required to have for pratice, and I just don't see them pulling it off. I sure hope I'm wrong.
LakerEagleLover
Well-known member
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season
...a loooong shot, but one worth taking, obviously...
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season
I'm sure the players won't put the cart before the horse but probably some UC fan will.
I'm sure the players won't put the cart before the horse but probably some UC fan will.
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norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season
Humm, guess not.
I'm sure the players won't put the cart before the horse but probably some UC fan will.
Humm, guess not.
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season
Interesting stuff. Thanks.
I agree that the NCAA appears to be more inflexible at the D-3 level than they do at the D-1 level, and so the examples you cite seem to point towards the inevitability of UC playing any prospective quarterfinal game on the road.
I don't really feel sorry for Utica's athletic department; they've been happy enough to take the $ first- and deal with The Aud's scheduling conflicts later- all along... And the possibility of scheduling an NCAA game hasn't been a factor until this year, anyway. (I do feel bad for the boys and the fans, but thus are the sins of our fathers visited upon us.)
Tell you what, though: if I was UMass-Dartmouth, I'd still be apoplectic about getting screwed over a meaningless oversight, and ditto re: Hamline/Trinity, but in a different vein. (To wit: it pretty-much goes without saying that any D-3 team would host on its home-ice, if at all possible, or at least play at whatever alternative venue that was closest to home and available... So, was the NCAA worried that Hamline or Trinity was gonna rent-out the Madison Square, and bring in 18,000 fans to gain an unfair advantage, FCS?)
"Consistency" doesn't always equate to "fairness", and I'm certainly of the opinion that D-3 needs to pick fewer nits, and aim to be more egalitarian, as it apparently desires to be viewed. (Again, I'm not saying that Utica deserves the latitude to force a change in the possible game date this year, because I don't think that it does... The examples you cite, on the other hand, come off as petty and overly-officious administration, to me.)
Interesting stuff. Thanks.
I agree that the NCAA appears to be more inflexible at the D-3 level than they do at the D-1 level, and so the examples you cite seem to point towards the inevitability of UC playing any prospective quarterfinal game on the road.
I don't really feel sorry for Utica's athletic department; they've been happy enough to take the $ first- and deal with The Aud's scheduling conflicts later- all along... And the possibility of scheduling an NCAA game hasn't been a factor until this year, anyway. (I do feel bad for the boys and the fans, but thus are the sins of our fathers visited upon us.
)Tell you what, though: if I was UMass-Dartmouth, I'd still be apoplectic about getting screwed over a meaningless oversight, and ditto re: Hamline/Trinity, but in a different vein. (To wit: it pretty-much goes without saying that any D-3 team would host on its home-ice, if at all possible, or at least play at whatever alternative venue that was closest to home and available... So, was the NCAA worried that Hamline or Trinity was gonna rent-out the Madison Square, and bring in 18,000 fans to gain an unfair advantage, FCS?)
"Consistency" doesn't always equate to "fairness", and I'm certainly of the opinion that D-3 needs to pick fewer nits, and aim to be more egalitarian, as it apparently desires to be viewed. (Again, I'm not saying that Utica deserves the latitude to force a change in the possible game date this year, because I don't think that it does... The examples you cite, on the other hand, come off as petty and overly-officious administration, to me.)
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norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season
OMG, what is going on here, fishman did you trade yesterday's catch to these guys?
Interesting stuff. Thanks.
I agree that the NCAA appears to be more inflexible at the D-3 level than they do at the D-1 level, and so the examples you cite seem to point towards the inevitability of UC playing any prospective quarterfinal game on the road.
I don't really feel sorry for Utica's athletic department; they've been happy enough to take the $ first- and deal with The Aud's scheduling conflicts later- all along... And the possibility of scheduling an NCAA game hasn't been a factor until this year, anyway. (I do feel bad for the boys and the fans, but thus are the sins of our fathers visited upon us.
Tell you what, though: if I was UMass-Dartmouth, I'd still be apoplectic about getting screwed over a meaningless oversight, and ditto re: Hamline/Trinity, but in a different vein. (To wit: it pretty-much goes without saying that any D-3 team would host on its home-ice, if at all possible, or at least play at whatever alternative venue that was closest to home and available... So, was the NCAA worried that Hamline or Trinity was gonna rent-out the Madison Square, and bring in 18,000 fans to gain an unfair advantage, FCS?)
"Consistency" doesn't always equate to "fairness", and I'm certainly of the opinion that D-3 needs to pick fewer nits, and aim to be more egalitarian, as it apparently desires to be viewed. (Again, I'm not saying that Utica deserves the latitude to force a change in the possible game date this year, because I don't think that it does... The examples you cite, on the other hand, come off as petty and overly-officious administration, to me.)
OMG, what is going on here, fishman did you trade yesterday's catch to these guys?
LakerFan99
New member
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season
But while you call it a meaningless oversight (and I agree...UMASS-Dartmouth got hosed), it's an NCAA regulation that the school missed. Utica is kind of in the same boat this year. The athletics dept never thought about what happens if their hockey teams gets into the NCAA tournament? They should be talking to the folks at the Aud as soon as the dates for next year's tourney are released.
It reminds me a little of what's going on with a local HS hockey team here in Syracuse. The state says HS teams can only play 20 regular season games. This team played 21. They got caught and the state ended their season. The AD says one game was a scrimmage. That other team says it wasn't.
My point is that while you feel bad for the team and the kids, you have to follow the guidelines. Even ridiculous ones the NCAA mandates.
Interesting stuff. Thanks.
I agree that the NCAA appears to be more inflexible at the D-3 level than they do at the D-1 level, and so the examples you cite seem to point towards the inevitability of UC playing any prospective quarterfinal game on the road.
I don't really feel sorry for Utica's athletic department; they've been happy enough to take the $ first- and deal with The Aud's scheduling conflicts later- all along... And the possibility of scheduling an NCAA game hasn't been a factor until this year, anyway. (I do feel bad for the boys and the fans, but thus are the sins of our fathers visited upon us.
Tell you what, though: if I was UMass-Dartmouth, I'd still be apoplectic about getting screwed over a meaningless oversight, and ditto re: Hamline/Trinity, but in a different vein. (To wit: it pretty-much goes without saying that any D-3 team would host on its home-ice, if at all possible, or at least play at whatever alternative venue that was closest to home and available... So, was the NCAA worried that Hamline or Trinity was gonna rent-out the Madison Square, and bring in 18,000 fans to gain an unfair advantage, FCS?)
"Consistency" doesn't always equate to "fairness", and I'm certainly of the opinion that D-3 needs to pick fewer nits, and aim to be more egalitarian, as it apparently desires to be viewed. (Again, I'm not saying that Utica deserves the latitude to force a change in the possible game date this year, because I don't think that it does... The examples you cite, on the other hand, come off as petty and overly-officious administration, to me.)
But while you call it a meaningless oversight (and I agree...UMASS-Dartmouth got hosed), it's an NCAA regulation that the school missed. Utica is kind of in the same boat this year. The athletics dept never thought about what happens if their hockey teams gets into the NCAA tournament? They should be talking to the folks at the Aud as soon as the dates for next year's tourney are released.
It reminds me a little of what's going on with a local HS hockey team here in Syracuse. The state says HS teams can only play 20 regular season games. This team played 21. They got caught and the state ended their season. The AD says one game was a scrimmage. That other team says it wasn't.
My point is that while you feel bad for the team and the kids, you have to follow the guidelines. Even ridiculous ones the NCAA mandates.
CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
Nate LePage, Siena '13
I'll agree that the UMass-D situation was ridiculous at best, but in both the Hamline and Trinity situations, and you acknowledge that it's the same in Utica, they knew the rule going in. With Hamline, it does get more ridiculous when you consider that the alternative that they proposed was certainly no Madison Square Garden... It was the ri k that they'd used as their home rink for YEARS, but had been undergoing renovations that year. (Think if Potsdam were to offer to host Maxcy Hall this year, dspite having played their whole home scheedule in Massena).
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season
I can't confirm this yet but I heard today that STHs have until COB Wed, Feb 20th to redeem their vouchers and buy their seat(s) for the 2 potential W playoff games at $8 per seat per game.
I assume that all seats not purchased by STHs by deadline would go on sale Thurs.
I can't confirm this yet but I heard today that STHs have until COB Wed, Feb 20th to redeem their vouchers and buy their seat(s) for the 2 potential W playoff games at $8 per seat per game.
I assume that all seats not purchased by STHs by deadline would go on sale Thurs.
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