Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012

But back to Utica. If they join SUNYAC, does it impact the Syracuse U diploma?

I must be missing something... I don't see how either would affect the other at all...

 

[norm1909]

Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012

I must be missing something... I don't see how either would affect the other at all...

I suspect joecct was joking, but for the record Utica College, now totally independent, will continue to offer Syracuse University degrees through May 2016, to students enrolled PRIOR to January 2011 meeting the degree requirements.

Utica's NCAA record.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012

The State University of New York (SUNY) system and the State University of New York Athletics Conference (SUNYAC) are two separate entities. The schools are funded and governed by the SUNY system... but the schools fund and govern the SUNYAC. The SUNYAC bylaws don't even require members to be a SUNY school, just that they be a 4-year degree-granting Collegiate Institution that is a full member of the NCAA Division III. (That is obviously why UC was able to apply)

So, just because it's a school within the SUNY system does not mean they are "birth-right members". In fact, as has been previously stated, SUNY Canton does NOT appear to be seeking full membership in the SUNYAC. If they did, certainly I believe they would be accepted. But more than likely they are joining another DIII athletics conference, and at most would seek SUNYAC affiliate membership for hockey (� la Morrisville, who is not a SUNYAC school). The question then becomes whether the schools would allow that to happen. They had to amend their bylaws in order to allow Morrisville to do it in the first place, so there is question as to how willing they would be to allow more affiliates.

For the record: That applies to both Canton AND Utica, and I honestly don't expect that either would be accepted as affiliate members.

Interesting stuff; thank you. (I'm like a babe in the woods in regards to how D-3 operates, clearly.)

Sure, I'm accustomed to the cynicism of D-1, where conference affiliations are plastic, and molded in whichever manner best fits the bottom-line... But D-3 hockey..? Seems to me, after watching so many UC road games in empty arenas, that such a money-losing endeavor as D-3 hockey (in general) would render such machinations ludicrous. Call me naive.

Back to UC hockey.

I'd be OK with a split this coming weekend, as in beating CS and giving Plattsburgh a game. A sweep would be huge, and going 0-fer would be a major disappointment, assuming Utica meets Bethel in the consolation game.

The typically brutal W is taking no prisoners again this season, so UC needs to at least hold its own in this very good OOC tournament. Should be a great litmus-test for all involved, I just hope that the officiating is not as embarrassingly bad as is it usually is at this level.

Anyhoo, Happy Holidays, D-3 mavens.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012

.....I had to chuckle at the so many "road games"......

And its Babson not Bethel....

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012

.....I had to chuckle at the so many "road games"......

Been going to UC road games for 10 years; there have been a few in that span. Chuckle away, already.

And Babson or Bethel..? Doesn't matter much, we're just talking Plattsburgh's sacrificial lamb of the tournament, anyway. (But thank you for the correction.)

 

[NUProf]

Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012

And Babson or Bethel..? Doesn't matter much, we're just talking Plattsburgh's sacrificial lamb of the tournament, anyway. (But thank you for the correction.)

It does matter - in the NCAA way of thinking - Bethel would be a non-game, since Bethel is a West team, and out of region games mean little for NCAA purposes. (Think tie-breaker)

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Been going to UC road games for 10 years; there have been a few in that span. Chuckle away, already.

And Babson or Bethel..? Doesn't matter much, we're just talking Plattsburgh's sacrificial lamb of the tournament, anyway. (But thank you for the correction.)

Its okay facts are facts....

And IF Utica plays Babson (not Bethel) I hope they dont have the "sacrificial lamb" state of mind. Ive seen Babson in down years too many times play spoiler. They will probably have the backing of the Cardinal faithful for their game....

 

[Hockeyfan2113]

Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012

I saw Babson at the Cape Cod when they played Hobart and Salem St. They had a chance against Hobart but gave them 6 power plays and Hobart scored on 3 and scored one a few seconds after one ended. Against Salem st they couldnt get past the goalie only scoring 3 on 42 shots while letting up 5 on 27. They played a good 1st in each but the 2nd is when they lose control of the game and go down and in the third is when they give up. I dont think Utica will have a problem with them.

 

[Birdwatcher]

Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012

Been going to UC road games for 10 years; there have been a few in that span. Chuckle away, already.

And Babson or Bethel..? Doesn't matter much, we're just talking Plattsburgh's sacrificial lamb of the tournament, anyway. (But thank you for the correction.)

Babson is normally a very strong "Contender". At the time the tourney was set up, I am sure they were not expected to have a season like this! They really can play the spoiler as they have several times in the past.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012

Don't sleep on Babson. They are notoriously slow starting team. This year might be a tad bit slower than expected especially after everything they returned from last year's team that was every bit as good as Norwich at the end of the season. That was a very good hockey team last year even with a 10-13-3 record or whatever it was.

Jamie Rice is one of the best in the business and anybody thinking they are going to grab two easy points against Babson in the second half needs some crazy pills because you're going to be in for a surprise with those kinds of expectations.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012

It does matter - in the NCAA way of thinking - Bethel would be a non-game, since Bethel is a West team, and out of region games mean little for NCAA purposes. (Think tie-breaker)

That's interesting, thanks...But it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I've proven myself dense on all matters D-3 time and time again, yes... But I would opine (perhaps ignorantly) that the rare cross-over game between East and West would serve to elucidate the relative balance of power, at least by some small increment.

As it stands now there is nearly no fodder for comparison in determining relative cross-country strength, which appears to me to be an anti-tiebreaker situation.

For example, if Bethel is near the top of their western conference, and Norwich were to beat them, why wouldn't that bolster the latter's status, at least in terms of being awarded an at-large berth? (Big "if", I know, considering the preponderance of AQs in the D-3 post-season.)

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012

That's interesting, thanks...But it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I've proven myself dense on all matters D-3 time and time again, yes... But I would opine (perhaps ignorantly) that the rare cross-over game between East and West would serve to elucidate the relative balance of power, at least by some small increment.

As it stands now there is nearly no fodder for comparison in determining relative cross-country strength, which appears to me to be an anti-tiebreaker situation.

For example, if Bethel is near the top of their western conference, and Norwich were to beat them, why wouldn't that bolster the latter's status, at least in terms of being awarded an at-large berth? (Big "if", I know, considering the preponderance of AQs in the D-3 post-season.)

The out of region games rule stinks to end degree but its the way it is unfortunately.

Playing cross regions are big risk big reward situations though. If you win and are in Pool C contention, you do yourself and your region a big favor when it comes down to secondary criteria.

 

[UCBadger]

Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012

The out of region games rule stinks to end degree but its the way it is unfortunately.

Playing cross regions are big risk big reward situations though. If you win and are in Pool C contention, you do yourself and your region a big favor when it comes down to secondary criteria.

OK, I think I have heard it argued both ways, but is the rule to encourage out of region games (it won't really be held against you if you lose so why not go) or is the rule to discourage (the cost of) out of region games (it won't really help you if you win so why spend all that money traveling)?





Also, Prez...I believe the correct phrase is ...."to the nth degree." (as in .....2nd, 3rd, 4th,......(n-1)th, nth degree)
Hope Santa was good to you this year!

 

[norm1909]

Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012

...

Also, Prez...I believe the correct phrase is ...."to the nth degree." (as in .....2nd, 3rd, 4th,......(n-1)th, nth degree)
Hope Santa was good to you this year!

It is "to the nth degree", unless your spell checker says it is "end"

 

[NUProf]

Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012

OK, I think I have heard it argued both ways, but is the rule to encourage out of region games (it won't really be held against you if you lose so why not go) or is the rule to discourage (the cost of) out of region games (it won't really help you if you win so why spend all that money traveling)?

The intention was to discourage out of region games. There was a proposed rule to permit out of region games to count if they took place during a school vacation and both teams agreed that it would count. The NCAA sticking point is that schools that are better funded have an advantage in being able to afford to make those expensive trips. As a consequence, the proposed rule (which actually did pass) was never implemented.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012

The intention was to discourage out of region games. There was a proposed rule to permit out of region games to count if they took place during a school vacation and both teams agreed that it would count. The NCAA sticking point is that schools that are better funded have an advantage in being able to afford to make those expensive trips. As a consequence, the proposed rule (which actually did pass) was never implemented.

Thanks for the explanation; I would never have figured that one out on my own. (I am beholden to you guys who actually do the mind-numbing homework re: why D-3 operates as it does.)

Yet, that rule defies logic.

It appears that the D-3 decision-makers would like us all to think that their hockey played is just for good clean fun, and that it's dirty pool to schedule oneself in such a way as to conduct one's program in any other manner as would a 12-and-under basketball association... That notion is ridiculous, clearly.

Sure, it appears that the great majority of D-3 hockey programs operate at a financial deficit, but why stack the cards against the few among them that commit resources and (maybe) realize a small profit..? If sports are so trivial an undertaking on the D-3 level, it really shouldn't matter one way or the other to the small private schools' presidents which team winds up on top at the end of the season, right? (They're still going to get their $35,000/year in tuition for a liberal-arts degree anyway, and have half their graduates re-training for a marketable job within a year, but that's an an entirely new discussion.)

I love my D-3 hockey -make no mistake about that- but the more you guys enlighten me regarding the way the process unfolds, the more the inherent and glaring inconsistencies hammer away on my forehead. The Emperor is more naked than ever, while D-3 is so high in the Ivory Tower as to escape notice.Ironically, it seems that dirty, money-grubbing D-1 has a more fair and transparent way of going about things.

Go figger.

 

[NorthernLite]

Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012

Many here use the expression..."it is what it is"........to summarize or rationalize any inequities or unusual rules that often seem to make little or no sense at all. In time you will assimilate.

 

[Pioneers#1]

Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012

Just out of curiosity here, I noticed in the EcacWest Pick 'em thread that Most people have Utica beating Castleton in the Cardinal Classic this weekend.

Why is this?

Castleton is 3rd in the Country & 10-1-0 overall...

Have they played weak teams so far perhaps?

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Just out of curiosity here, I noticed in the EcacWest Pick 'em thread that Most people have Utica beating Castleton in the Cardinal Classic this weekend.

Why is this?

Castleton is 3rd in the Country & 10-1-0 overall...

Have they played weak teams so far perhaps?

Castleton has only really played Norwich....and they lost that game. Utica has certainly played a tougher schedule. I'm not saying its in the bag by any stretch. But I think that's a factor weighing on people's minds.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012

Castleton has only really played Norwich....and they lost that game. Utica has certainly played a tougher schedule. I'm not saying its in the bag by any stretch. But I think that's a factor weighing on people's minds.

+1