Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll
Or 46! My stomach hurts for some reason?
Or 46! My stomach hurts for some reason?
USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll
- Thread starter SB in the 'Seo
- Start date
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll
1. Plattsburgh's strong defensive game has worked pretty good since Emery has been there. That defensive game beat one of the best teams I've ever seen in Div III, the 2001 RIT team that nobody could ever beat. They haven't been an offensive powerhouse since Hoar and the admiral were playing there, and would flat out outscore people.
2. Plattsburgh did not have strong post season last year because there was a better team in their conference in Oswego, which was peaking at the end of the season.
3. You saw that young team play last year
1. Plattsburgh's strong defensive game has worked pretty good since Emery has been there. That defensive game beat one of the best teams I've ever seen in Div III, the 2001 RIT team that nobody could ever beat. They haven't been an offensive powerhouse since Hoar and the admiral were playing there, and would flat out outscore people.
2. Plattsburgh did not have strong post season last year because there was a better team in their conference in Oswego, which was peaking at the end of the season.
3. You saw that young team play last year
Last edited:
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll
Prof, we differ in opinion sometimes, but not on this topic.
There are a lot of people on here who hang their hats on a late-season weekend, as though it either negates or validates a 25-game body of work overnight.
It clearly doesn't; the weekend in question just provides a little more grist for the comparison-mill, period, in terms of a more reasonable perspective.
Yet, this is what we do: we stage "championships" that are generally decided by short tournaments that should reasonably carry no more weight than RS games between the contestants involved, and the AQ-conference tournaments are the most egregious examples of this wrong-headed approach to handing-out the hardware.
(Having said that, I'll still be thumping my chest in front of all my Yankee-fan friends when I get back to work on Monday.
)
Prof, we differ in opinion sometimes, but not on this topic.
There are a lot of people on here who hang their hats on a late-season weekend, as though it either negates or validates a 25-game body of work overnight.
It clearly doesn't; the weekend in question just provides a little more grist for the comparison-mill, period, in terms of a more reasonable perspective.
Yet, this is what we do: we stage "championships" that are generally decided by short tournaments that should reasonably carry no more weight than RS games between the contestants involved, and the AQ-conference tournaments are the most egregious examples of this wrong-headed approach to handing-out the hardware.
(Having said that, I'll still be thumping my chest in front of all my Yankee-fan friends when I get back to work on Monday.
)
Last edited:
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll
I think Hobart definitely leaves the gate with a leg up on Oswego, at least on paper.
(Platty, I know nothing about, and they really aren't in the mix anyway, as far as direct comparisons go.)
I think Hobart definitely leaves the gate with a leg up on Oswego, at least on paper.
(Platty, I know nothing about, and they really aren't in the mix anyway, as far as direct comparisons go.)
sticksnstones
Go Cards!
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll
Toto, your argument about last year's Plattsburgh and this year's Plattsburgh doesn't make too much sense. Prof touched on it a bit; I think you are forgetting how important it is for student-athletes to get that freshman year under their belt. Fortunately, most of Plattsburgh's freshmen received a good amount of playing time last year, which was by design because Emery knew he would have to rely on them this year. You did acknowledge that they are talented, but that was after watching them a year out of juniors. Imagine how much better they should be with a year of college hockey under their belt?
Of course, there are some players who don't reach their potential, but look at your beloved Lakers. Their group of seniors who graduated last year weren't as good their first year as they were their last year.
Toto, your argument about last year's Plattsburgh and this year's Plattsburgh doesn't make too much sense. Prof touched on it a bit; I think you are forgetting how important it is for student-athletes to get that freshman year under their belt. Fortunately, most of Plattsburgh's freshmen received a good amount of playing time last year, which was by design because Emery knew he would have to rely on them this year. You did acknowledge that they are talented, but that was after watching them a year out of juniors. Imagine how much better they should be with a year of college hockey under their belt?
Of course, there are some players who don't reach their potential, but look at your beloved Lakers. Their group of seniors who graduated last year weren't as good their first year as they were their last year.
LakerEagleLover
New member
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll
...and here I thought my friend Toto would fade away into the AZ sunset and somehow lose his edge...
Go Lakers!
...and here I thought my friend Toto would fade away into the AZ sunset and somehow lose his edge...
Go Lakers!
bakdraft21
Well-known member
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll
hes a pot stirrer for sure...and here I thought my friend Toto would fade away into the AZ sunset and somehow lose his edge...
Go Lakers!
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll
If, when the ECAC West gets an autobid, I would expect the league to give their tournament champion the autobid and not the regular season champ.Prof, we differ in opinion sometimes, but not on this topic.
There are a lot of people on here who hang their hats on a late-season weekend, as though it either negates or validates a 25-game body of work overnight.
It clearly doesn't; the weekend in question just provides a little more grist for the comparison-mill, period, in terms of a more reasonable perspective.
Yet, this is what we do: we stage "championships" that are generally decided by short tournaments that should reasonably carry no more weight than RS games between the contestants involved, and the AQ-conference tournaments are the most egregious examples of this wrong-headed approach to handing-out the hardware.
(Having said that, I'll still be thumping my chest in front of all my Yankee-fan friends when I get back to work on Monday.
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll
You are right, my friend. I do lurk on the D-I threads to see what is up at in Badger Land. They have a larger tourney field and with it more at large bids. While we in D-III land have the mantra: "Just keep winning!", it seems that many D-I fans (the group Fishman has his roots) see winning the conference tournament the "cheap" way into the tournament. They seem to think the "noble" way or the most deserving way is the at large bid based on year long performance. Perphaps this is due to all the minor conference bids which end up being fodder for the big dogs in the first round of that NCAA tournament played with a bouncy ball and squeaky shoes. Just saying what I have observed on the D-I tournament threads.
Last edited:
...and here I thought my friend Toto would fade away into the AZ sunset and somehow lose his edge...
Go Lakers!
Not gonna get rid of me that easy. This pot-stirrer will be here for at least a little while longer.
It's valid to say that they SHOULD improve, but it's by no means a guarantee. Look at Gustavus Adolphus last year. They lost only one senior after a season that brought them to the second round of the NCAAs. They were widely seen as a powerhouse coming into last year that would make the MIAC into a formidable conference. But they failed. They lost 8 games, lost their conference championship, and didn't make the NCAAs.
I simply don't put teams in the top 3 unless they have both a proven body of work and are returning the majority of their team. Since there are at least 5 teams by my count that could fit that description, I wouldn't put Plattsburgh in the top 5, let alone the top 3.
It should be noted that in the second semester Utica may lose some of their Canadians that transfer due to their lost scholarships. If that occurs I would no longer consider them a top 5 team.
PSUChamps2001
Member of the REAL Zoo Crew
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll
They were a .672 playing a weak SOS compared to a .722 team with one of the best SOS's, beat powerhouse MSOE non the less and getting blown out by SNC where they were outshot 14-39.
What little bird told you this?
You're really going to compare Gustavus to Plattsburgh? Now you're stretching for dear life.
They were a .672 playing a weak SOS compared to a .722 team with one of the best SOS's, beat powerhouse MSOE non the less and getting blown out by SNC where they were outshot 14-39.
By who? That's why they were picked to finish second? Which losing in the conference championship would mean you finished in......? They didn't even win their league in 2012.
For a team that was picked to finish 2nd in a mediocre league, wasn't even ranked much of the year, was barely picked in the top 10 at the start of last year (by the more common sense poll people), they also lost to St.Johns who the following week was leading UWEC at the half way point of the game and minus a 3 minute span in the second played UWEC just as tough as a lot of teams.
Well what is it? Because I've shown you SEVERAL ways of how SEVERAL of your teams lost a TON coming into 2013-2014 except maybe Utica and SNC. You wanted GPG, and you were shown how that is gone. You wanted goaltending, that's gone too. Powerplay? Yup Plattsburgh moves up in that too. Penalty kill? I guess when you were number 1 already kind of hard to move up.
See above....
What little bird told you this?
I just wanna see Plattsburgh win a couple games before I'm convinced. As of yet, they haven't convinced me.
As for Utica, it's common sense that at least a couple Canadians will put their feelers out there now that Utica was forced to take away their scholarships. It happened pretty closely to the beginning of the school year so they didn't really have time before the semester started to look for other options. But you can bet your bottom dollar that schools with competitive tuition and/or fin aid packages have reached out to some Utica players. They may all stay due to loyalty. Most of them are seniors and probably figure it's not worth transferring.
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll
It is not permitted to contact players on other teams during the season in that way. If there were "reach out" in that way, the schools in question would be in a lot of hot water. Players can contact other schools, but schools cannot initiate such contacts. Just tap your ruby slippers for your owner
It is not permitted to contact players on other teams during the season in that way. If there were "reach out" in that way, the schools in question would be in a lot of hot water. Players can contact other schools, but schools cannot initiate such contacts. Just tap your ruby slippers for your owner
And D3 schools NEVER do anything that's in the gray area of NCAA rules. ;-)
norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll
Toto you really need to come back to this side of the rainbow - and provide your top 5 list and the rational reasons why they make more sense.
Toto you really need to come back to this side of the rainbow - and provide your top 5 list and the rational reasons why they make more sense.
PSUChamps2001
Member of the REAL Zoo Crew
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll
You and me both, but you are contradicting your own points. Most of your "Top 5" lost at least 30% of their offense in just 5 guys, 50% and a goalie, and 40%. Yet Plattsburgh, while yes did not have the gawdy offensive numbers (which they haven't in years), lost only half of what your "Top 5" did, and this was with a group of freshman accounting for 40% of games played and playing one of the toughest schedules in all of DIII. All 5 our of the 7 Plattsburgh loses were by 1 goal. (Castleton and Oswego). 3 of those 7 loses were in part due to a freshman mistake. Plattsburgh was 3 points from being in the NCAA's whether they lost to Oswego or not in the SUNYAC Finals. If Plattsburgh was that horrid I guess they shouldn't have taken two from the senior filled superior Oswego team during the regular season?? Taking two games from (IMO) the best DIII team there was last year, with such a young team and taking Norwich to the brink is pretty impressive with what they had last year alone. And what's tried to been explained to you, with what everyone else lost AND with all that Plattsburgh returns there is little to no reason as to why Plattsburgh SHOULDN'T be considered a Top 3 team, let alone Top 5.
As far as Utica goes, just like the majority of the teams that have sanctions put on them, they know about this before its released. I believe Utica stopped their FA program last year. Hense why you don't see any Canadian recruits this year. Keep in mind two things 1) adding an extra $2,000-$4,000 for your final year to have a shot at a National Title with the group of guys you've been with for 3 years is a lot less to ask then a new player needing $8k-$16k for an incoming Canadian freshman would have to add. In short, while the rest of DIII would say thank you, I don't see it happening. Which again leads us to the other off season debate of "cheating" to win......
You and me both, but you are contradicting your own points. Most of your "Top 5" lost at least 30% of their offense in just 5 guys, 50% and a goalie, and 40%. Yet Plattsburgh, while yes did not have the gawdy offensive numbers (which they haven't in years), lost only half of what your "Top 5" did, and this was with a group of freshman accounting for 40% of games played and playing one of the toughest schedules in all of DIII. All 5 our of the 7 Plattsburgh loses were by 1 goal. (Castleton and Oswego). 3 of those 7 loses were in part due to a freshman mistake. Plattsburgh was 3 points from being in the NCAA's whether they lost to Oswego or not in the SUNYAC Finals. If Plattsburgh was that horrid I guess they shouldn't have taken two from the senior filled superior Oswego team during the regular season?? Taking two games from (IMO) the best DIII team there was last year, with such a young team and taking Norwich to the brink is pretty impressive with what they had last year alone. And what's tried to been explained to you, with what everyone else lost AND with all that Plattsburgh returns there is little to no reason as to why Plattsburgh SHOULDN'T be considered a Top 3 team, let alone Top 5.
As far as Utica goes, just like the majority of the teams that have sanctions put on them, they know about this before its released. I believe Utica stopped their FA program last year. Hense why you don't see any Canadian recruits this year. Keep in mind two things 1) adding an extra $2,000-$4,000 for your final year to have a shot at a National Title with the group of guys you've been with for 3 years is a lot less to ask then a new player needing $8k-$16k for an incoming Canadian freshman would have to add. In short, while the rest of DIII would say thank you, I don't see it happening. Which again leads us to the other off season debate of "cheating" to win......
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll
Plattsburgh will get into the NCAA's this year, thats my prediction. they have by far the best recruiting class of any team(in the east) this year. That being said Gustavus is a bad example, St. Thomas on the other hand everyone had picked out to do great things last year(myself included), they ended up being relatively flat. But Plattsburgh was a great team last year. Of the 7 games they lost, only 2 were by more than 1 goal. of those 7 games they lost they outshot their opponents in 5 of them. By no means was Plattsburgh mediocre last year, the only mediocre team they lost to was Fredonia who they outshot by a margin of 2:1, sometimes you run into a hot goalie not much you can do about it. I watched the Plattsburgh/Norwich game, that could have gone either way, remember this is a team that beat Oswego twice.
Plattsburgh will get into the NCAA's this year, thats my prediction. they have by far the best recruiting class of any team(in the east) this year. That being said Gustavus is a bad example, St. Thomas on the other hand everyone had picked out to do great things last year(myself included), they ended up being relatively flat. But Plattsburgh was a great team last year. Of the 7 games they lost, only 2 were by more than 1 goal. of those 7 games they lost they outshot their opponents in 5 of them. By no means was Plattsburgh mediocre last year, the only mediocre team they lost to was Fredonia who they outshot by a margin of 2:1, sometimes you run into a hot goalie not much you can do about it. I watched the Plattsburgh/Norwich game, that could have gone either way, remember this is a team that beat Oswego twice.
You make some solid pints that I don't disagree with. I guess I just place more weight on last years performance than you do. You can look at GPG and all the other stats you want but what counts in the end is winning. Whether it's by 1 goal or 7, you just gotta win. And last year Plattsburgh wasn't able to get the win when it counted the most. And they've got a lot of young untested guys. I hope they do well this year and I suspect they will. But they're not in my top 3 yet. They likely will be. But not yet.
PSUChamps2001
Member of the REAL Zoo Crew
And when in average 47% have left from those teams last year compared to less then 20% on plattsburgh its more of a question