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USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll

PSUChamps2001 said:
Let's see if I can help the little dog out here...
This is taking into consideration Toto's Top 5 and Plattsburgh/Oswego...

Seniors lost:
NORWICH 5
SNC 5
ADRIAN 5
PLATTS 5
UTICA 6
UWEC 11
OSU 14

Games Played Lost:
PLATTS 17.40812379
SNC 20.76788831
NORWICH 23
ADRIAN 25.18518519
UTICA 25.18656716
UWEC 47.45762712
OSU 66.31762653

Points Lost:
PLATTS 18.56060606
UTICA 21.03658537
SNC 31.76100629
ADRIAN 31.94444444
NORWICH 45
UWEC 50.5988024
OSU 81.21827411

GOALS Lost:
PLATTS 14.14141414
UTICA 18.85245902
SNC 36.13445378
ADRIAN 35.76642336
NORWICH 53
UWEC 58.4
OSU 78.62068966


GWG Lost:
UTICA 23.80952381
PLATTS 26.31578947
SNC 39.13043478
ADRIAN 52.17391304
UWEC 54.16666667
NORWICH 71
OSU 80

So even tho Plattsburgh lost the same number of Seniors as SNC, Adrian, and Norwich, they are last in 3 of the 4 major categories. Most by half of ToTo's power 5. WEC as he calls it not only lost over 50% of their offense, but lost arguably one of the best DIII goaltenders. Memory serving me correctly I think Plattsburgh still has a pretty good goalie back this year?

Plattsburgh also has one of the best incoming freshman class in DIII. They may not be NHL calibar, but I bet you see several All SUNYAC Team members from this class and potentially and probably ROTY and an All-American.
Click to expand...

Ok so this proves that Platty is very likely to do at least as well as they did last year. But it's no guarantee, and it doesn't mean that Platty will do better this year. Favorite to win the SUNYAC? Fair enough. But top 3? I dunno.

And keep in mind that Platty was not a primarily offensive team past year, so it stands to reason they wouldn't lose too many goals with seniors lost. They didn't have as many goals as powerhouses like Adrian, SNC, or Oswego last year. That's just their style of play. They're more defensive and it works for them. Unfortunately it's impossible to measure how many goals not-let-in they lost with their graduating class.

But none of this changes the fact that Plattsburgh didn't have a wildly successful year last year. If they made the frozen four I would easily put them as the #1 or 2 team this year. But they didn't. They not only have to improve, they have to improve significantly. And talent only gets you so far.
 
toto238 said:
Ok so this proves that Platty is very likely to do at least as well as they did last year. But it's no guarantee, and it doesn't mean that Platty will do better this year. Favorite to win the SUNYAC? Fair enough. But top 3? I dunno.

And keep in mind that Platty was not a primarily offensive team past year, so it stands to reason they wouldn't lose too many goals with seniors lost. They didn't have as many goals as powerhouses like Adrian, SNC, or Oswego last year. That's just their style of play. They're more defensive and it works for them. Unfortunately it's impossible to measure how many goals not-let-in they lost with their graduating class.

But none of this changes the fact that Plattsburgh didn't have a wildly successful year last year. If they made the frozen four I would easily put them as the #1 or 2 team this year. But they didn't. They not only have to improve, they have to improve significantly. And talent only gets you so far.
Click to expand...

You must be related to Fish
 
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll

toto238 said:
Ok so this proves that Platty is very likely to do at least as well as they did last year. But it's no guarantee, and it doesn't mean that Platty will do better this year. Favorite to win the SUNYAC? Fair enough. But top 3? I dunno.

And keep in mind that Platty was not a primarily offensive team past year, so it stands to reason they wouldn't lose too many goals with seniors lost. They didn't have as many goals as powerhouses like Adrian, SNC, or Oswego last year. That's just their style of play. They're more defensive and it works for them. Unfortunately it's impossible to measure how many goals not-let-in they lost with their graduating class.

But none of this changes the fact that Plattsburgh didn't have a wildly successful year last year. If they made the frozen four I would easily put them as the #1 or 2 team this year. But they didn't. They not only have to improve, they have to improve significantly. And talent only gets you so far.
Click to expand...

You saw them play last year with that young group. If you just think about what you saw, in addition to one of the best goalies in the nation returning...you know they should be one of the best teams in nation this year
 
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll

toto238 said:
Ok so this proves that Platty is very likely to do at least as well as they did last year. But it's no guarantee, and it doesn't mean that Platty will do better this year. Favorite to win the SUNYAC? Fair enough. But top 3? I dunno.

And keep in mind that Platty was not a primarily offensive team past year, so it stands to reason they wouldn't lose too many goals with seniors lost. They didn't have as many goals as powerhouses like Adrian, SNC, or Oswego last year. That's just their style of play. They're more defensive and it works for them. Unfortunately it's impossible to measure how many goals not-let-in they lost with their graduating class.

But none of this changes the fact that Plattsburgh didn't have a wildly successful year last year. If they made the frozen four I would easily put them as the #1 or 2 team this year. But they didn't. They not only have to improve, they have to improve significantly. And talent only gets you so far.
Click to expand...

You saw them play last year with that young group. If you just think about what you saw, in addition to one of the best goalies in the nation returning...you know they should be one of the best teams in nation this year
 
PSUChamps2001 said:
You must be related to Fish
Click to expand...

Here's the difference. I sometimes root for Plattsburgh. I never root for Utica.

Yes, Plattsburgh is talented and played well last year. Their strong defensive game makes them a factor in every contest. But that doesn't convince me that they're top 3. I also saw a lot of other very talented teams play last year and unlike Plattsburgh they had a lot of post-season success last year.
I'm not pulling punches on Oswego either. They lost 3/4 of their team, they have a lot to prove too. But Plattsburgh didn't make the NCAAs, they too have a lot to prove. How often do we hear the story of a team loaded with talent that flops? It happens all the time. Plattsburgh hasn't won a game in the NCAA tournament since 2010. Yes, they have something to prove.
 
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll

toto238 said:
Here's the difference. I sometimes root for Plattsburgh. I never root for Utica.

Yes, Plattsburgh is talented and played well last year. Their strong defensive game makes them a factor in every contest. But that doesn't convince me that they're top 3. I also saw a lot of other very talented teams play last year and unlike Plattsburgh they had a lot of post-season success last year.
I'm not pulling punches on Oswego either. They lost 3/4 of their team, they have a lot to prove too. But Plattsburgh didn't make the NCAAs, they too have a lot to prove. How often do we hear the story of a team loaded with talent that flops? It happens all the time. Plattsburgh hasn't won a game in the NCAA tournament since 2010. Yes, they have something to prove.
Click to expand...

Sometime teams take time to develop - sometimes they gell right away. Plattsburgh has a boatload of talent and a year playing together. You can't measure a team's success in a one-and-done tournament either. One bad bounce, one bad day by a key player, and a team is out. I don't see Plattsburgh as being a flop last year. The Buffalo Bills were once a great football program. The fact they didn't ever win the Super Bowl doesn't detract from what they had in those years that they went to the Big Game every year. We are too quick to judge teams by how they do in a single game. DIII hockey is silly in that we build teams for the long run, and then test them in a one-at-a time matter. Championships are great, but its not always the greatest team that wins the Championship.
 
97osu said:
You saw them play last year with that young group. If you just think about what you saw, in addition to one of the best goalies in the nation returning...you know they should be one of the best teams in nation this year
Click to expand...

They could be. But so could Hobart. Explain to me why you think Plattsburgh should rank higher than Hobart? Both had great records last season, they both lost their conference and didn't make the NCAAs. Hobart only had 5 losses last season, Plattsburgh had 7. Hobart is returning 8 of their top 10 point-scorers. I view both Plattsburgh and Oswego this year as starting in a similar place as Hobart.
 
NUProf said:
Sometime teams take time to develop - sometimes they gell right away. Plattsburgh has a boatload of talent and a year playing together. You can't measure a team's success in a one-and-done tournament either. One bad bounce, one bad day by a key player, and a team is out. I don't see Plattsburgh as being a flop last year. The Buffalo Bills were once a great football program. The fact they didn't ever win the Super Bowl doesn't detract from what they had in those years that they went to the Big Game every year. We are too quick to judge teams by how they do in a single game. DIII hockey is silly in that we build teams for the long run, and then test them in a one-at-a time matter. Championships are great, but its not always the greatest team that wins the Championship.
Click to expand...

I don't think they were a flop. But they didn't demonstrate top 3 viability last year in my opinion. I'd love to read that article on predicting factors if you know where it is. I can't find it.
 
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll

97osu said:
You saw them play last year with that young group. If you just think about what you saw, in addition to one of the best goalies in the nation returning...you know they should be one of the best teams in nation this year
Click to expand...
nailed it......GOALIE just about the best in the business in d3.....
 
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll

toto238 said:
They could be. But so could Hobart. Explain to me why you think Plattsburgh should rank higher than Hobart? Both had great records last season, they both lost their conference and didn't make the NCAAs. Hobart only had 5 losses last season, Plattsburgh had 7. Hobart is returning 8 of their top 10 point-scorers. I view both Plattsburgh and Oswego this year as starting in a similar place as Hobart.
Click to expand...
again Hobart has the same netminder situation as Oz........BIG DIFFERENCE how a team plays when they know they have an all-american behind them or a rookie/little experince which both Oz and hobart pretty much have
 
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll

toto238 said:
They could be. But so could Hobart. Explain to me why you think Plattsburgh should rank higher than Hobart? Both had great records last season, they both lost their conference and didn't make the NCAAs. Hobart only had 5 losses last season, Plattsburgh had 7. Hobart is returning 8 of their top 10 point-scorers. I view both Plattsburgh and Oswego this year as starting in a similar place as Hobart.
Click to expand...

Do you want to use offense? Defense? Or flip flop back and forth?

GPG 2012-2013
Hobart : 10th 3.85
Platts: 13th 3.67

GPG Returning for 2013-2014
Hobart: 2.42
Platts: 3.14

Difference Of
Hobart: 1.43 GPG
Platts: 0.52 GPG

So going into 2013-2014 season it would be "projected" that Plattsburgh should score almost .75 more goals per game then Hobart.

Goaltenders
Hobart: ???
Plattsburgh: All-American

Anything else?

And just for S+G
Projected Returning GPG
UTICA 3.535714286
PLATTS 3.148148148
ADRIAN 3.142857143
SNC 2.533333333
HOBART 2.423076923
NORWICH 1.862068966
UWEC 1.677419355
OSU 1.033333333

Projected GPG Differential from 12/13-13/14
PLATTS 0.521851852
UTICA 0.824285714
HOBART 1.426923077
SNC 1.436666667
ADRIAN 1.747142857
NORWICH 2.137931034
UWEC 2.352580645
OSU 3.796666667

So all this "Plattsburgh didn't show anything" is great and all, but its pretty clear that while they didn't show you a lot last year, those teams that did lost a TON more then Plattsburgh besides maybe Utica. And with no offence to Adrian, their offensive numbers will probably come down some as the NCHA gets better and now with SNC and CSS. Plattsburgh also played arguably one of the toughest schedules with one of the youngest teams out there.

I await your comeback....
 
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll

toto238 said:
I don't think they were a flop. But they didn't demonstrate top 3 viability last year in my opinion. I'd love to read that article on predicting factors if you know where it is. I can't find it.
Click to expand...
Try the "other" d3hockey web site. Reference is obscure but ...
 
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll

Toto in 05-06 a young Oswego team didn't make the NCAA's and lost to Platty in two straight games on home ice in the SUNYAC semi-finals. In 06-07 they won the National Championship and went the first 17 games without a loss. They did have the nations best power play in 05-06 and were one of the best offensive teams in the nation with Ryan Ellis and Ryan Woodward scoring over 40 points. Their defense and penalty kill were middle of the road. In 06-07 the offensive maintained it's prowess while the defense gave up around a goal a game less than the previous year. The power play dropped but the pk improved. What I am saying is a lot of folks around here felt they would win a title but not many thought it would come when it did.

You may be right, expectations might be too high for the Cards but I can certainly see the reasons why they are highly rated. They are looking similar to that 06-07 Oswego team only they look like they will try to win with dominant defense and timely scoring rather that blowing teams out of the water.
 
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll

Laker28 said:
Toto in 05-06 a young Oswego team didn't make the NCAA's and lost to Platty in two straight games on home ice in the SUNYAC semi-finals. In 06-07 they won the National Championship and went the first 17 games without a loss. They did have the nations best power play in 05-06 and were one of the best offensive teams in the nation with Ryan Ellis and Ryan Woodward scoring over 40 points. Their defense and penalty kill were middle of the road. In 06-07 the offensive maintained it's prowess while the defense gave up around a goal a game less than the previous year. The power play dropped but the pk improved. What I am saying is a lot of folks around here felt they would win a title but not many thought it would come when it did.

You may be right, expectations might be too high for the Cards but I can certainly see the reasons why they are highly rated. They are looking similar to that 06-07 Oswego team only they look like they will try to win with dominant defense and timely scoring rather that blowing teams out of the water.
Click to expand...

The biggest thing to remember too is NOT what Plattsburgh is returning but more so what the other teams are NOT. We are talking 4-6 graduates, but over 30%-50%+ of the offense. If teams like SNC, UWEC, Norwich, and Adrian only lost the 18% like Plattsburgh lost, I'd have no issues putting ALL of them ahead of Plattsburgh. With Jacobson still at SNC and Utica still loaded, I can see 3rd. Norwich, UWEC and Adrian have too many questions coming into 2013-2014. If Oswego gets off to a good start they could be a spoiler, but not a favorite. Hobart will depend on goaltending and replacing 10 seniors.
 
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll

Laker28 said:
Toto in 05-06 a young Oswego team didn't make the NCAA's and lost to Platty in two straight games on home ice in the SUNYAC semi-finals. In 06-07 they won the National Championship and went the first 17 games without a loss. They did have the nations best power play in 05-06 and were one of the best offensive teams in the nation with Ryan Ellis and Ryan Woodward scoring over 40 points. Their defense and penalty kill were middle of the road. In 06-07 the offensive maintained it's prowess while the defense gave up around a goal a game less than the previous year. The power play dropped but the pk improved. What I am saying is a lot of folks around here felt they would win a title but not many thought it would come when it did.

You may be right, expectations might be too high for the Cards but I can certainly see the reasons why they are highly rated. They are looking similar to that 06-07 Oswego team only they look like they will try to win with dominant defense and timely scoring rather that blowing teams out of the water.
Click to expand...
and a top goalie :eek:...BIG KEY...ps i just finished making a mean lazagna for the family:p:D off topic I know:D
 
Re: USCHO.com Men's Division III pre-season poll

PSUChamps2001 said:
Do you want to use offense? Defense? Or flip flop back and forth?

GPG 2012-2013
Hobart : 10th 3.85
Platts: 13th 3.67

GPG Returning for 2013-2014
Hobart: 2.42
Platts: 3.14

Difference Of
Hobart: 1.43 GPG
Platts: 0.52 GPG

So going into 2013-2014 season it would be "projected" that Plattsburgh should score almost .75 more goals per game then Hobart.

Goaltenders
Hobart: ???
Plattsburgh: All-American

Anything else?

And just for S+G
Projected Returning GPG
UTICA 3.535714286
PLATTS 3.148148148
ADRIAN 3.142857143
SNC 2.533333333
HOBART 2.423076923
NORWICH 1.862068966
UWEC 1.677419355
OSU 1.033333333

Projected GPG Differential from 12/13-13/14
PLATTS 0.521851852
UTICA 0.824285714
HOBART 1.426923077
SNC 1.436666667
ADRIAN 1.747142857
NORWICH 2.137931034
UWEC 2.352580645
OSU 3.796666667

So all this "Plattsburgh didn't show anything" is great and all, but its pretty clear that while they didn't show you a lot last year, those teams that did lost a TON more then Plattsburgh besides maybe Utica. And with no offence to Adrian, their offensive numbers will probably come down some as the NCHA gets better and now with SNC and CSS. Plattsburgh also played arguably one of the toughest schedules with one of the youngest teams out there.

I await your comeback....
Click to expand...

We lost one of our top players to SNC this season. And I know they got another D3 transfer who put up some points. Where would your numbers be for SNC if you figured in the points of their two D3 transfers? One forward who had 24 points in 20 games last season and one d-man who had 17 in 28 games. Both should improve on those numbers with the stronger supporting cast.
 
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