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USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

FiveHoleFrenzy said:
I have questions...

Who determines the numbering order for Minnesota? So for example who is selection 23, 24, and so on?

Is number 23 the point where Minnesota has received too many selections or is it a bit before or after that? This part wasn't entirely clear to me with the phrase "numerous of the selections".

How do you do it? I mean, to have such a grasp of the talent level of the Minnesota kids is very impressive.
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I have gone to the last 4 hockey nationals and attended numerous NDCs and many many other tournaments. I have a good idea on the overall talent gap between Minnesota and the rest of the country. It's not no great that the rest of the country should get only a little more than half of the slots. Also Minnesota posted 22 player originally. I profess to not know the difference between 22 and 28, but while Minnesota is by far the best producer of women's players, 28 of 66 is insane. At least based on my eyes.
 
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Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

BCAlum said:
but while Minnesota is by far the best producer of women's players, 28 of 66 is insane.
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28 of 66 is 42%
FWIW
According to the D1 commitment threads here
2014-15 D1 commitments-36% were from MN
2013-14-35% were from MN
2015-16 as of Jan 6-28% were from MN
 
Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

BCAlum said:
I have gone to the last 4 hockey nationals and attended numerous NDCs and many many other tournaments. I have a good idea on the overall talent gap between Minnesota and the rest of the country. It's not no great that the rest of the country should get only a little more than half of the slots. Also Minnesota posted 22 player originally. I profess to not know the difference between 22 and 28, but while Minnesota is by far the best producer of women's players, 28 of 66 is insane. At least based on my eyes.
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Given that, which MN players would you have replaced with which non-MN players? Specifics about why would make the discussion more interesting.
 
Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

ne7minder said:
Given that, which MN players would you have replaced with which non-MN players? Specifics about why would make the discussion more interesting.
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Hopefully, this will go unanswered. Do we really need to detract from the accomplishments of people who are still in high school? It is one thing to do so as part of a discussion to benefit the USA Hockey process; however, this doesn't seem like the place nor audience.
 
Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

ARM said:
Hopefully, this will go unanswered. Do we really need to detract from the accomplishments of people who are still in high school? It is one thing to do so as part of a discussion to benefit the USA Hockey process; however, this doesn't seem like the place nor audience.
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Understood but more it was calling him out. Since he has been to at least 4 nationals and some number of NDCs I thought it would be simple for him to detail why A was better than B and A obviously got the short end of the stick. the difference between the 50th person picked and the first 10 that didn't make it would be so miniscule as to be a matter of subjective judgement. Having watched hockey at every level for more than 50 years, played the game and even studied it a bit I know I am not qualified to make that judgment so I wanted to hear what 4 whole nationals might have taught me.
 
Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

BCAlum said:
I have gone to the last 4 hockey nationals and attended numerous NDCs and many many other tournaments. I have a good idea on the overall talent gap between Minnesota and the rest of the country. It's not no great that the rest of the country should get only a little more than half of the slots. Also Minnesota posted 22 player originally. I profess to not know the difference between 22 and 28, but while Minnesota is by far the best producer of women's players, 28 of 66 is insane. At least based on my eyes.
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I appreciate that you took the time to answer the questions.:cool:
 
ne7minder said:
Understood but more it was calling him out. Since he has been to at least 4 nationals and some number of NDCs I thought it would be simple for him to detail why A was better than B and A obviously got the short end of the stick. the difference between the 50th person picked and the first 10 that didn't make it would be so miniscule as to be a matter of subjective judgement. Having watched hockey at every level for more than 50 years, played the game an
d even studied it a bit I know I am not qualified to make that judgment so I wanted to hear what 4 whole nationals might have taught me.
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The difference between my daughter's teammates (who were among the best in her team) and a number of the Minnesota girls who made the u66 camp was non-existent. I'm not naming names. But there is a Minnesota bias that cannot be ignored. Again I readily admit Minnesota produces the most talented women's hockey players by a not insignificant margin. But USA hockey takes it to an extreme with this election process IMHO.
 
BCAlum said:
The difference between my daughter's teammates (who were among the best in her team) and a number of the Minnesota girls who made the u66 camp was non-existent. I'm not naming names. But there is a Minnesota bias that cannot be ignored. Again I readily admit Minnesota produces the most talented women's hockey players by a not insignificant margin. But USA hockey takes it to an extreme with this election process IMHO.
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I think what you say makes sense, but I don't see how it could shake out any other way. If the differences between bubble players and ones who get in are subtle, or even impossible to quantify, how would the benefit of the doubt not be given to the player that has a chance to play against the best collection of highly rated talent?

As much as I hate comparisons to pro sports...a lot of Canadian junior players get drafted higher than guys from lesser circuits who possess similar skills. And NFL teams reach on players from the SEC when they can often nab a better prospect from a school that isn't known to be a football powerhouse. It is what it is, man.
 
charlieconway said:
I think what you say makes sense, but I don't see how it could shake out any other way. If the differences between bubble players and ones who get in are subtle, or even impossible to quantify, how would the benefit of the doubt not be given to the player that has a chance to play against the best collection of highly rated talent?
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The arrogance. Are you saying that highly ranked Canadian AA and USA AAA teams that play at high profile tournaments/showcases are a lesser collection of talent? I beg to differ and frankly how would you know? If you are from MN beyond the NIT or USA Canada Cup, when are YOU really exposed to making an educated judgement on national talent. My kids started their hockey careers in MN and the gap is closing quickly
 
Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

HappyGilmourCaddy said:
The arrogance. Are you saying that highly ranked Canadian AA and USA AAA teams that play at high profile tournaments/showcases are a lesser collection of talent? I beg to differ and frankly how would you know? If you are from MN beyond the NIT or USA Canada Cup, when are YOU really exposed to making an educated judgement on national talent. My kids started their hockey careers in MN and the gap is closing quickly
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I can't say for sure what charlieconway meant but he did say "it is what it is" which seemed like some Midwest Elitism to me. :)
 
Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

BCAlum said:
The difference between my daughter's teammates (who were among the best in her team) and a number of the Minnesota girls who made the u66 camp was non-existent. I'm not naming names. But there is a Minnesota bias that cannot be ignored. Again I readily admit Minnesota produces the most talented women's hockey players by a not insignificant margin. But USA hockey takes it to an extreme with this election process IMHO.
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yes, in your opinion. I have no idea but also don't pretend to have one. But I also don't pretend to be so sure either.
 
HappyGilmourCaddy said:
The arrogance. Are you saying that highly ranked Canadian AA and USA AAA teams that play at high profile tournaments/showcases are a lesser collection of talent? I beg to differ and frankly how would you know? If you are from MN beyond the NIT or USA Canada Cup, when are YOU really exposed to making an educated judgement on national talent. My kids started their hockey careers in MN and the gap is closing quickly
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I'm not pretending to know anything, but rather aiming to try and speculate as to why things are the way they are.

Unlike seemingly everyone here I know my place as a forum troll whose opinion doesn't much matter. I love the emotional response though -- complete with shouting in the form of caps lock. Nice.
 
charlieconway said:
I think what you say makes sense, but I don't see how it could shake out any other way. If the differences between bubble players and ones who get in are subtle, or even impossible to quantify, how would the benefit of the doubt not be given to the player that has a chance to play against the best collection of highly rated talent?
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I was just trying to place emphasis not yelling. Bold doesn't work on my cell phone in this format. You did call MN hockey "the best collection of highly rated talent". And charlieconway, I shouldn't have singled you out as others have made similar comments that rub many of us Non Minnesota residents the wrong way.
The underlying angst for many of us who's kids have been through the NDC evaluation process this year is that it is so inconsistent across the country. Some regions had tryouts in March and April, while others waited until June and charged players $650 to tryout which prolonged the goalie selections. The at-large goalie selection process needs a complete overhaul. Probably not the most appropriate forum to discuss, but I know of no other option.
 
Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

charlieconway said:
I think what you say makes sense, but I don't see how it could shake out any other way. If the differences between bubble players and ones who get in are subtle, or even impossible to quantify, how would the benefit of the doubt not be given to the player that has a chance to play against the best collection of highly rated talent?

As much as I hate comparisons to pro sports...a lot of Canadian junior players get drafted higher than guys from lesser circuits who possess similar skills. And NFL teams reach on players from the SEC when they can often nab a better prospect from a school that isn't known to be a football powerhouse. It is what it is, man.
Click to expand...

I get this, perhaps some truth to this.
 
Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

Ciscokid said:
Anybody hear how the first round of game went?
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Hard to say how teams are doing - most likely not relevant since this focused more on individual development and assessment. I know that the goalies are rotating between teams and have heard at least one of the teams has significant number of players from previous year U18 team.
 
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