USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

[Eeyore]

Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

So California, Texas, Florida and Arizona should have more hockey players that MN. Really missing the point

Given that the original comment was regarding the population of those who play hockey, not so much. In the case of football in Europe, one can assume that the percentage of the population interested in the sport is close enough to a constant across countries that a rank of overall population can be assumed to function reasonably well as a ranking of population from which football players are drawn. Obviously, the same is not true for interest in hockey across states in the U.S., so you have to dig a bit to establish a ranking of states by the relevant measure of population, which is what the post that started this sub-thread did. While you have to make sure that you are using the proper definition of "population", once you do that, population is, as I said, probably the most important factor in determining how many high level players an area will produce.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

Good article about how the community-based model for youth hockey has served Minnesota well, drawing a contrast with MA which has gone in a different direction. Although the article's focus is more on the boys, the story is the same with the girls.

One thing overlooked is coaching, you cannot have top quality players without top quality coaching. The community model also is good training bed for coaching , giving opportunity to people to become good coaches. The best coaches rise to the top and get promoted just like the players do.

 

[Leather helmet]

Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

Good article about how the community-based model for youth hockey has served Minnesota well, drawing a contrast with MA which has gone in a different direction. Although the article's focus is more on the boys, the story is the same with the girls.

http://www.letsplayhockey.com/onlin...el-at-core-of-minnesota-hockey-s-mission.html

If Minnesota Hockey is unsuccessful in keeping Tier 1 programs at bay, I predict the same result for Minnesota HS hockey (both boy's and girl's) that the article describes for Massachusetts HS hockey.

<Sarcasm start>
My solution is simple: bring the fight to where the problem is. Identify the parents of the top players, and bring them all together, from all over the state. By 'them' I don't mean the players; leave them on their local teams where they will continue to develop. I mean bring their parents together. Buy them embroidered jackets and send them to out-of-town tournaments. Give them trophies and print up yearbooks.

It may cost a lot of money, but by distracting the parents of the top-level players, we can keep them from ruining a good thing by insisting on creating a few elite teams.
<Sarcasm end>

 

[Call It]

Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

Anyone here watching the games in St Cloud? Would love to see what people's opinion is of the talent level. From what I see, the bottom half are sub par.

 

[Call It]

Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

If Minnesota Hockey is unsuccessful in keeping Tier 1 programs at bay, I predict the same result for Minnesota HS hockey (both boy's and girl's) that the article describes for Massachusetts HS hockey.

<Sarcasm start>
My solution is simple: bring the fight to where the problem is. Identify the parents of the top players, and bring them all together, from all over the state. By 'them' I don't mean the players; leave them on their local teams where they will continue to develop. I mean bring their parents together. Buy them embroidered jackets and send them to out-of-town tournaments. Give them trophies and print up yearbooks.

It may cost a lot of money, but by distracting the parents of the top-level players, we can keep them from ruining a good thing by insisting on creating a few elite teams.
<Sarcasm end>

Funniest post of the year

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

If Minnesota Hockey is unsuccessful in keeping Tier 1 programs at bay, I predict the same result for Minnesota HS hockey (both boy's and girl's) that the article describes for Massachusetts HS hockey.

<Sarcasm start>
My solution is simple: bring the fight to where the problem is. Identify the parents of the top players, and bring them all together, from all over the state. By 'them' I don't mean the players; leave them on their local teams where they will continue to develop. I mean bring their parents together. Buy them embroidered jackets and send them to out-of-town tournaments. Give them trophies and print up yearbooks.

It may cost a lot of money, but by distracting the parents of the top-level players, we can keep them from ruining a good thing by insisting on creating a few elite teams.
<Sarcasm end>

Not so sure of this. The USHL has been there for quite a while now. And in fact, may be helping to reinforce Minnesota hockey. There are quite a few Minnesotans in the league and often they are the USHL's best. And still there is quality backfill. The big deal is that the region remains immune from the CHL.

 

[Hockeyhub]

Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

Well, the MN "Community-based" model may have served some from MN well, but the organization MN Hockey has shackled many from seeking a transfer to another community hockey program. Without approval from both the outgoing and incoming community MN Hockey program, you cannot seek an alternative program under the MN Hockey umbrella. The article doesn't mention how several MN community-based, volunteer based, hockey organizations are run by people that do not know much about hockey, allow policy indiscretions with no accountability, and have a wide variety of coaching from good to very poor, among other weaknesses. Thank you Bernie for starting up Minnesota Made for those that cannot get approval to move to another, better hockey program to seek something better.

 

[Leather helmet]

Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

Well, the MN "Community-based" model may have served some from MN well, but the organization MN Hockey has shackled many from seeking a transfer to another community hockey program. Without approval from both the outgoing and incoming community MN Hockey program, you cannot seek an alternative program under the MN Hockey umbrella. The article doesn't mention how several MN community-based, volunteer based, hockey organizations are run by people that do not know much about hockey, allow policy indiscretions with no accountability, and have a wide variety of coaching from good to very poor, among other weaknesses. Thank you Bernie for starting up Minnesota Made for those that cannot get approval to move to another, better hockey program to seek something better.

There is no question that what you say is true. There will always be good and bad coaches, good and bad administrators, and good and bad boards. However, I don't believe that making it easier to move from one district to another will solve the problem without also creating a possibly worse problem.

If all that is required for a player to move to another association is the approval of the receiving association, then it is a short walk to see super teams being created by all of the top players from nearby associations gathering together to play with their friends. That depletes the sending associations of their best players and takes away opportunities for the local players pushed aside.

The community model does more than just develop the good players (in fact, it probably does a disservice to the best players). It creates interest in the game, and it provides a large base of competition that benefits all of the players. It gives a reason for marginal players to keep playing, which sometimes leads to late-bloomers having the option to play D1 hockey (or beyond).

Allowing the creation of super-teams will kill marginal programs and reduce opportunities for everybody. Have fun beating up on a bunch of B Teams on your way to winning the state title in front of an empty arena. I certainly wouldn't walk across the street to watch that.

 

[KTDC]

Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

There is no question that what you say is true. There will always be good and bad coaches, good and bad administrators, and good and bad boards. However, I don't believe that making it easier to move from one district to another will solve the problem without also creating a possibly worse problem.

If all that is required for a player to move to another association is the approval of the receiving association, then it is a short walk to see super teams being created by all of the top players from nearby associations gathering together to play with their friends. That depletes the sending associations of their best players and takes away opportunities for the local players pushed aside.

The community model does more than just develop the good players (in fact, it probably does a disservice to the best players). It creates interest in the game, and it provides a large base of competition that benefits all of the players. It gives a reason for marginal players to keep playing, which sometimes leads to late-bloomers having the option to play D1 hockey (or beyond).

Allowing the creation of super-teams will kill marginal programs and reduce opportunities for everybody. Have fun beating up on a bunch of B Teams on your way to winning the state title in front of an empty arena. I certainly wouldn't walk across the street to watch that.

I think this is a great post.

For my part, I am still in favor of hanging on to the community/great state tournament model as best we can rather than resigning ourselves to the modern model.

 

[D2D]

Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

I think this is a great post.

Seconded. I would also add that local associations do tend to weed out the "bad" coaches, and board members, over time as most want to do what's best for their association. Plus making it easier for players to transfer into other associations would be particularly damaging to those already facing challenges fielding teams due to changing demographics.

 

[DedicatedFan]

Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

I think this is a great post.

For my part, I am still in favor of hanging on to the community/great state tournament model as best we can rather than resigning ourselves to the modern model.

I also agree with the community model. It allows children to play with other children from their same area, which fosters a sense of community, which hopefully carries on to high school. It allows many children to play as there are opportunities at all levels from the beginner to the "A" skater. My daughter often played on teams where she was pushed by better skaters, which certainly helped her development. I don't think any of those better players suffered because of it; in fact, it probably made them better teammates as they had to step up and lead and take responsibility for the less experienced or talented players.

The time to play on "super" teams is in the summer. That is where like-talented skaters should get together and play. This way, a skater gets the best of both worlds -- community-based hockey in the winter and AAA hockey in the summer. They are allowed to retain their association friends while making new friends. Besides, when they reach 9th grade, they can go where they want without penalty. I'm pretty sure that if your skater is good enough, he or she will get noticed no matter where he or she plays.

I was involved as a parent volunteer and/or board member in two different associations, one inner-city and the other suburban, both of which were run by competent and knowledgeable people. I can tell you that an association is only as good as its volunteers. As with any volunteer organization, most of the work is done by a few dedicated people -- the rest just sit back and complain. My suggestion to Hockeyhub is if you don't like how things are being run, volunteer and make some changes!

 

[icehawk]

If Minnesota Hockey is unsuccessful in keeping Tier 1 programs at bay, I predict the same result for Minnesota HS hockey (both boy's and girl's) that the article describes for Massachusetts HS hockey.

<Sarcasm start>
My solution is simple: bring the fight to where the problem is. Identify the parents of the top players, and bring them all together, from all over the state. By 'them' I don't mean the players; leave them on their local teams where they will continue to develop. I mean bring their parents together. Buy them embroidered jackets and send them to out-of-town tournaments. Give them trophies and print up yearbooks.

It may cost a lot of money, but by distracting the parents of the top-level players, we can keep them from ruining a good thing by insisting on creating a few elite teams.
<Sarcasm end>

This is golden. Well done.

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

There is no question that what you say is true. There will always be good and bad coaches, good and bad administrators, and good and bad boards. However, I don't believe that making it easier to move from one district to another will solve the problem without also creating a possibly worse problem.

So you don't believe in capitalism and free markets - got it, you reject in some of our fundamental American beliefs. Because choice and pursuing the best is what this country is founded on. You believe in preventing/limiting choice. You should join the NCAA.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

So you don't believe in capitalism and free markets - got it, you reject in some of our fundamental American beliefs. Because choice and pursuing the best is what this country is founded on. You believe in preventing/limiting choice. You should join the NCAA.

or maybe Leather Helmet is speaking from observation of what has happened on the educational side in Mn, it has only widened the gap between have and have nots,
but what should have we expected given it was passed by a Utopian house & Senate, signed by a Utopian Goovenor.
sort of like Obama Care

won't it be nice when the season is underway and people can get back to arguing about what would be a better ranking system and which team plays the most cupcakes?

 

[Leather helmet]

Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

So you don't believe in capitalism and free markets - got it, you reject in some of our fundamental American beliefs. Because choice and pursuing the best is what this country is founded on. You believe in preventing/limiting choice. You should join the NCAA.

Yes, you have it. I am at heart against the American Flag and apple pie. I thought I was being too cryptic, but you must have noticed the message I sent with my punctuation.

Or, maybe I am saying that we limit choices all the time against the few, in favor of the many. That is why there are drug laws, seat belt laws, motorcycle helmet laws, automobile insurance laws, and on and on. Limiting the choices of the best players will ensure in the long run that there is a viable competitive base, which is in the best interests of everyone, including the best players.

If you don't think that creating elite teams ends up degrading the quality of all levels, even the elite teams themselves, take a look at the experience in MA. If this makes me a socialist, I say 'Workers Unite!'.

 

[FiveHoleFrenzy]

Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

With a record of 182-14-8 over the last 5 years which averages out to 36.4 wins per year and 2.8 losses per year, I don't think there is much argument about which team plays the most cupcakes. That hand painted "Free Skates" on the side of the van roaming around a certain flyover state has certainly had a good ROI.

 

[Eeyore]

Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

Or, maybe I am saying that we limit choices all the time against the few, in favor of the many. That is why there are drug laws, seat belt laws, motorcycle helmet laws, automobile insurance laws, and on and on. Limiting the choices of the best players will ensure in the long run that there is a viable competitive base, which is in the best interests of everyone, including the best players.

It's almost like the tragedy of the commons is a real thing.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

Least. Interesting. Epistemology. Debate. Ever.

.

 

[Leather helmet]

Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

.

If only there was a way for a person to not participate in a debate he's not interested in...

 

[Eeyore]

Re: USA Hockey Womens U18 Select 66 Camp Invites

.

This is really more a discussion of ethics.