US U18 Women's National Team 2013-2014

[Otto Bounds]

Re: US U18 Women's National Team 2013-2014

ARM: If you feel that someone who has never actually played hockey, who has had marginal success at best as a high school head coach (directly or indirectly "developed" four D1 goalies in 20+ years of coaching in various roles), who has never coached at the college level either, is best qualified to coach players competing at the international level, that's fine. I respectfully disagree 100% (to put it politely).

I actually think he is a good goalie coach, contrary to what you might believe, but at the high school level. In the college and/or international arenas, he is grossly out of his element. It's akin to sending a boy to do a man's job (or girl to do a woman's job). If he is/was anything near the coach you believe him to be, we wouldn't be having this 'discussion'.

I trust that USA Hockey is much better informed than either one of us, certainly me, so the fact that they chose (for whatever their reasons) to retain two of the three coaches, but not the highly experienced goalie coach that you defend by saying "he obviously had more coaching longevity at 20 years than either Kennedy or Lachapelle" says one of three things: (1) You are misinformed and/or in denial, (2) USA Hockey realized that tenure without accomplishment means little, (3) You are trying to defend yourself.

 

[YaMan1]

Re: US U18 Women's National Team 2013-2014

Sometimes it not just about coaching, it might me about character. Or how you do or don't treat people.

 

[ARM]

Re: US U18 Women's National Team 2013-2014

I trust that USA Hockey is much better informed than either one of us, certainly me...

Me as well.

... but not the highly experienced goalie coach that you defend by saying "he obviously had more coaching longevity at 20 years than either Kennedy or Lachapelle" ...

To clarify, I wasn't defending him. I was questioning your description of a lack of experience, because while I don't know him, I've known of him for a decade. I imagine he is an unknown quantity on the East Coast when compared to a couple of Boston-based coaches.

(1) You are misinformed and/or in denial...

Not sure what I've said that is untrue and makes me misinformed, but if I am, it wouldn't be a first. I'm not close enough to the situation or passionate enough to bother with denial, so I'll rule that one out.

(2) USA Hockey realized that tenure without accomplishment means little...

I don't think that is true, but if it is, then it begs your initial question of why he was hired in the first place without the "inexperienced" tag, which is what I questioned.

... (3) You are trying to defend yourself.

I must admit this one puzzles me ... why do I personally need defense here? Or is this a case of the common forum belief, "if one speaks positively about anyone, then one is either that person or that person's parent?"

I'll pick "(4) I didn't think he qualified as 'inexperienced'." I still don't. If you do, then we'll go with your earlier suggestion of agreeing to disagree. If the reason we had this discussion is because you meant he is a poor coach rather than an inexperienced one, then okay, although I haven't heard that before, and his results suggest otherwise. I don't know him personally, so I can't go beyond that.

Maybe "HS hockey coach" in your area of the country means something different than it does around here. Many HS teams are coached by very qualified individuals that enjoy working with young people, and I'd say that there are a number of them that could join a U-18 staff and be a huge asset. Perhaps the coach in question was not, but I have no way of knowing that, because as I said earlier, I have no inside knowledge of his tenure with USA Hockey.

 

[Otto Bounds]

Re: US U18 Women's National Team 2013-2014

ARM: First, I want to commend you on your quality posts. I actually happen to agree with a fair amount of your logic and rationale, so I will try to summarize my position a bit differently. In the end, we still very well may end up having to 'agree to disagree', but that's okay.

It starts with the opinion that the coach in question shouldn't have been selected in the first place. I'll define my 'experience' references as someone who has played hockey and coached at the college level. I agree that there are many quality, well-respected high school coaches worthy of consideration. I'm not opposed to a high school coach being on staff, just tend to believe that college level experiences trump high school level experiences when selecting coaches for USA Hockey National teams for International competition.

It ends with something that should have been included in my first post: Character. I have interacted with the coach in question on multiple occassions. I have nothing positive to say about him or his arrogance. More importantly, I have heard first hand many of the stories about the behavior and treatment of his high school players. If true, USA Hockey should have never considered him in the first place and losing his position on the U18 team may be the least of his worries.

 

[YaMan1]

Re: US U18 Women's National Team 2013-2014

ARM, I am new to this posting thing, something I would like to share, and does not really need a reply back. Otto Bounds, you seem to know what I'm talking about. I would like to share about the HS coach in question. I do know of many behavior issues of this person. How he treats the players and the parents. Things he has said and done. Their is no room for this behavioral activity in sports today. USA hockey is better for making the change. I will say, I feel sorry for any player that has to go through this is the future, sorry for those who have already gone through it. He should not be allowed to coach kids, and ecspecially girls.

 

[kinger89]

Re: US U18 Women's National Team 2013-2014

I'm unaware as to what happened with the HS coach and his arrogance/behavioral issues. Can anyone fill me in?

 

[Hockey it's only a Game]

Re: US U18 Women's National Team 2013-2014

Guys, Lets not beat yourselves up here.. Its Women's International U18 Hockey. No where near the level of the
men's game. If not for the USA and Canada it would not even be competitive. Maybe equal to Boy's Bantam Major AAA ?
USA Hockey has to recognize the women's game and those tournaments only feel international due to were they are played.
Look at the paid attendance for the final games?

 

[OneTimer]

Re: US U18 Women's National Team 2013-2014

In March 2014 I would like to see the Arbitron ratings of every Olympic sport and its' time slot competitive rankings. This will have a lot to say about the direction of the sport.

 

[Hux]

No reason to be a D*ck.

I was thinking more along the lines of ******. (That would be doush)

 

[Otto Bounds]

Guys, Lets not beat yourselves up here.. Its Women's International U18 Hockey. No where near the level of the
men's game. If not for the USA and Canada it would not even be competitive. Maybe equal to Boy's Bantam Major AAA ?
USA Hockey has to recognize the women's game and those tournaments only feel international due to were they are played.
Look at the paid attendance for the final games?

Hockey it's only a Game: Ironically, your attitude mirror's that of the coach being discussed, so enough said on that topic.

In terms of the women's game, be a good dog and go back to laying by your dish. If anyone wants your opinion, we will whistle.

 

[UCONN FAN]

Re: US U18 Women's National Team 2013-2014

Guys, Lets not beat yourselves up here.. Its Women's International U18 Hockey. No where near the level of the
men's game. If not for the USA and Canada it would not even be competitive. Maybe equal to Boy's Bantam Major AAA ?
USA Hockey has to recognize the women's game and those tournaments only feel international due to were they are played.
Look at the paid attendance for the final games?

So paid attendance is the barometer? USA hockey held the world juniors in Buffalo and if not the Canadians the crowds would have been less than 25%. So does this diminish the level play because of the lack of interest in a junior tournament here in the USA? Would USA hockey ever bid for the Worlds and then move them to Florida like the NCAA did last year? Heck would they even move them into Boston when the Celtics and Bruins are in the middle of their seasons? Your point is stupid and short sighted. BTW here are the stats from the 2013 Worlds Junior Tournament. So I guess based on your paid attendance theory the World Juniors is on par with Batam Major AAA!

Host country Russia
Dates December 26 – January 5
Teams 10
Venue(s) Ufa Arena and Ice Palace Salavat Yulaev[1] (in 1 host city)
Final positions
Champions United States (3rd title)
Runner-up Sweden
Third place Russia
Fourth place Canada
Tournament statistics
Matches played 31
Goals scored 220 (7.1 per match)
Attendance 110,175 (3,554 per match)
Scoring leader(s) Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (15 points)
MVP John Gibson
Website http://www.worldjunior2013.com

 

[CYAMom]

Re: US U18 Women's National Team 2013-2014

After the closing of the U18 Development camp, are there any ideas as to who may be front runners to get a shot at the U18 National team? I did not get a chance to go to St. Cloud to see it for myself, and I was wondering who looked good.

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: US U18 Women's National Team 2013-2014

After the closing of the U18 Development camp, are there any ideas as to who may be front runners to get a shot at the U18 National team? I did not get a chance to go to St. Cloud to see it for myself, and I was wondering who looked good.

Wasn't there so I'm afraid that I can't provide first hand insight but I was definitely surprised by a few inclusions and omissions in the All Star game.

 

[Hux]

Guess the list is being finalized. So know already.

Have heard that players are being notified, and we should know by early next week via official announcement. I believe the US - Canada series will be in Lake Placid the third week of August.

 

[CLUBTEAMS]

Re: US U18 Women's National Team 2013-2014

Interesting - first time they've had a repeat as coach. Don't know if that is a good or a bad thing.....

These coaches are using this as a recruitment vehicle to their NCAA school. I know cuz my D is being recruited by them.
Other NCAA schools are livid. USA Hockey is showing favoritism to certain Coaches and NCAA schools.

I would like to see USA Hockey select the roster. And only USA hockey officials. Not the paid NCAA coaches who run the USA hockey camps every summer. This is not the Miracle on ice. The Head Coaches "Herb" of these U18 teams, should only be allowed to coach the selected roster organized by USA Hockey. This would cut down on the staff ultimately using their position as leverage to filter the players to their NCAA team.

This shows their willingness to cheat at all cost to land a recruit.

 

[DC78-82]

Re: US U18 Women's National Team 2013-2014

These coaches are using this as a recruitment vehicle to their NCAA school. I know cuz my D is being recruited by them.
Other NCAA schools are livid. USA Hockey is showing favoritism to certain Coaches and NCAA schools.

I would like to see USA Hockey select the roster. And only USA hockey officials. Not the paid NCAA coaches who run the USA hockey camps every summer. This is not the Miracle on ice. The Head Coaches "Herb" of these U18 teams, should only be allowed to coach the selected roster organized by USA Hockey. This would cut down on the staff ultimately using their position as leverage to filter the players to their NCAA team.

This shows their willingness to cheat at all cost to land a recruit.

I have always maintained the opinion that having D-1 coaches take the helm of our National Teams (or Select, depending on the timing) is a huge conflict of interest, especially at the "U-" levels. There are dozens of highly qualified coaches at D-2 and D-3 schools who would bring neutrality to the bench along with good coaching. The process as it stands now is clearly beneficial to the coach/school getting either the top picks at the younger levels to seriously consider, if not commit early to their school, or at the older level, getting student-athletes from their school on to a National Team roster.

 

[jumbodaddy77]

Re: US U18 Women's National Team 2013-2014

Yes most have, reaching as far as the 98 birth year.

I'm new here and am only looking for information (really, I'm not trying to stir the pot, just wondering). How is it possible for a 98 to make the U18 team? She would not have even played in the US Development Camp against the U18 caliber players. Does USA Hockey scout U16 players during the year? If so, where and when do they watch? Are these younger players so good that they cannot be denied? Or, is there some new unofficial USA Hockey goal to give the best younger players a chance to develop with the big girls? There does seems to be a pattern here after all. Thanks.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: US U18 Women's National Team 2013-2014

I'm new here and am only looking for information (really, I'm not trying to stir the pot, just wondering). How is it possible for a 98 to make the U18 team? She would not have even played in the US Development Camp against the U18 caliber players. Does USA Hockey scout U16 players during the year? If so, where and when do they watch? Are these younger players so good that they cannot be denied? Or, is there some new unofficial USA Hockey goal to give the best younger players a chance to develop with the big girls? There does seems to be a pattern here after all. Thanks.

If my math is correct, a '98 is 15 and a first year Midget (U16) player. There have been a few past cases of 15 year olds making the U18 squad. Most moved on to star in College and be part of the National team program. I'm sure the selection brass is well aware of the top end 14 and 15 years old's through the various NDC and Regional/National Championship events.

The real phenoms are tracked at an early age. Some don't pan out, but many do. Poulin for example was tracked by Hockey Canada as early as age 13. She ended up scoring both goals in the Olympic Final in 2010 as a 19 year old. She was called the future of Canadian hockey as early as age 16.

 

[Hux]

Re: US U18 Women's National Team 2013-2014

If my math is correct, a '98 is 15 and a first year Midget (U16) player. There have been a few past cases of 15 year olds making the U18 squad. Most moved on to star in College and be part of the National team program. I'm sure the selection brass is well aware of the top end 14 and 15 years old's through the various NDC and Regional/National Championship events.

The real phenoms are tracked at an early age. Some don't pan out, but many do. Poulin for example was tracked by Hockey Canada as early as age 13. She ended up scoring both goals in the Olympic Final in 2010 as a 19 year old. She was called the future of Canadian hockey as early as age 16.

2008
Kendall Coyne
Liz Turgeon
Megan Mangene

2009
Amanda Pelkey

2010
Alex Carpenter
Haley Skarupa

2011
Sydney Daniels

2013
Jincy Dunne

 

[OnMAA]

Re: US U18 Women's National Team 2013-2014

2008
Kendall Coyne
Liz Turgeon
Megan Mangene

2009
Amanda Pelkey

2010
Alex Carpenter
Haley Skarupa

2011
Sydney Daniels

2013
Jincy Dunne

Thanks for digging that up Hux. I knew of a few of these of the top of my head, but did not name any for fear of missing someone. Clear example of early identified talent that went on to bigger and better things. Many of these ladies will be heard from for years to come.