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US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais

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Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais

joecct said:
The right to a speedy execution will be observed.
Click to expand...

And not just for coup plotters. Military, journalists, politicians, citizens...anyone with the slightest tie to anyone who has ever said anything critical of Erdogan will be eliminated.
 
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais

ticapnews said:
And not just for coup plotters. Military, journalists, politicians, citizens...anyone with the slightest tie to anyone who has ever said anything critical of Erdogan will be eliminated.
Click to expand...

His growing authoritarian grip just got tighter.
 
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais

Hearing Rubio interview on CNN just ****es me off that he's not an option in November, and instead we have dickwad Trump and ********* Killery.
 
bigblue_dl said:
Hearing Rubio interview on CNN just ****es me off that he's not an option in November, and instead we have dickwad Trump and ********* Killery.
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He just regurgitates what his handlers feed him. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't ("let's dispel the notion that Barak Obama doesn't know what he is doing").
 
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais

Did I hear this right? The military had bombed Erdogan's vacation place but after he had already left?

I must have heard that wrong or heard it out of context.
 
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais

Foreign policy?!? How about Stauber1 policy?

I have a 9 hour layover in Istanbul on Aug. 2nd, and am then set to bookend my trip by spending the last few days of August in Istanbul.
Starting to wish I had payed the extra money for that flight change/cancellation insurance.

On a less self-centered note, I can understand the sentiments some have expressed about the desire to see a more secular gov't take hold there, but I'm not sure a successful military coup is really what we would want to see. There is a lot at play, and a lot of high stakes in Turkey right now. There's no guarantee what a new gov't might look like.

Beside that, I tend to think it's pretty problematic when a democratically elected government is overthrown by force.
 
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais

Stauber1 said:
Foreign policy?!? How about Stauber1 policy?

I have a 9 hour layover in Istanbul on Aug. 2nd, and am then set to bookend my trip by spending the last few days of August in Istanbul.
Starting to wish I had payed the extra money for that flight change/cancellation insurance.

On a less self-centered note, I can understand the sentiments some have expressed about the desire to see a more secular gov't take hold there, but I'm not sure a successful military coup is really what we would want to see. There is a lot at play, and a lot of high stakes in Turkey right now. There's no guarantee what a new gov't might look like.

Beside that, I tend to think it's pretty problematic when a democratically elected government is overthrown by force.
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Oh I agree completely. While a more secular government may be preferred, overthrowing a democracy is not the right way to do it.

Hope the whole area settles down a bit for your travel. I have wanted to visit Istanbul for a while, and while the trip has never been more than a pipe dream, this just makes me more cautious about any kind of international travel.
 
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais

As a big history nut I've always wanted to visit Istanbul as well. I'd also like to get out to Jerusalem. Damascus would be sweet, but that just ain't gonna happen. I'm awfully swarthy for a Swede, but... no. Besides if Israel is stamped on the passport I probably wouldn't get into the country.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
Did I hear this right? The military had bombed Erdogan's vacation place but after he had already left?

I must have heard that wrong or heard it out of context.
Click to expand...
You heard correctly.

What I want to know is if Erdogan think the USA is behind the coup. Sky News was re-airing his speech and then cut away for breaking footage of police in Ankara. Before they left, the translation was "I tell all my general's the men around you may seen loyal but they are taking their orders from Pennsylvania...."

Either he thinks the governor in Pennsylvania is up to something or he is colloquially referring to the White House.
 
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais

ticapnews said:
You heard correctly.

What I want to know is if Erdogan think the USA is behind the coup. Sky News was re-airing his speech and then cut away for breaking footage of police in Ankara. Before they left, the translation was "I tell all my general's the men around you may seen loyal but they are taking their orders from Pennsylvania...."

Either he thinks the governor in Pennsylvania is up to something or he is colloquially referring to the White House.
Click to expand...

There was apparently some suggestion by Erdogan's gov't that an islamist cleric based in the US was behind it, which would be odd, given that it's the secularists who are most opposed to Erdogan's increasingly islamic bent.

Arab Spring, Brexit, tDonald, now Turkey. Interesting times. A real shot in the arm for masters and phd candidates looking for fresh fodder for theses and dissertations. Who else is getting a woodie over this--CIA geeks? Political correspondents and bloggers? (forget about fear mongers looking for power or wealth for a moment). I mean, it is extremely interesting, but there are always groups who benefit from a new or expanded food supply.
 
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Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais

ticapnews said:
What I want to know is if Erdogan think the USA is behind the coup. Before they left, the translation was "I tell all my general's the men around you may seen loyal but they are taking their orders from Pennsylvania...."

Either he thinks the governor in Pennsylvania is up to something or he is colloquially referring to the White House.
Click to expand...

My guess is that he doesn't believe the US is behind it. I think we came out early enough in the process to be seen as supporting the government, and in general we have been very supportive of Turkey in its relations with Europe and Russia. But the statement could be construed either way and that could be on purpose. Finding an enemy elsewhere (whether it be Gulan or the US) for Turks can help bolster support for him at home. I am less concerned about what Erdogan thinks and more so about how it plays out in the middle east in terms of bad PR of us hosting said 'bad, potentially anti-Islamic actor'.

Having said that, I'm also concerned about Turkey sliding further into a Putin style dictatorship. This will help reinforce Putin and other dictatorships around the world. And democracy vs. dictatorship blanketed in nationality seems to be the recipe of war over the last hundred years.

Stauber1 said:
I have a 9 hour layover in Istanbul on Aug. 2nd, and am then set to bookend my trip by spending the last few days of August in Istanbul.
Starting to wish I had payed the extra money for that flight change/cancellation insurance.
Click to expand...

I can imagine. I've told my story of Istanbul on USCHO before, ending up in a very dangerous situation. Long story short, I met a guy who invited me to a bar a mile outside of the main areas, was overcharged hundreds at local bar, and told I needed to work out the details in the back room. I managed to get (or rather run) my way out of it.

The key I believe will be to stay right in the middle of the tourist areas (Hagia Sophia, Blue Mosque neighborhood, maybe including a visit to the grand bazaar). And keep by the police. I decided not to get into what happened with them, but the police were very concerned with my welfare and ensuring that I would enjoy my time in Istanbul. Taking care of tourists and Americans in particular seemed to be a high priority on their list.
 
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Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais

That Reichstag fire analogy looks pretty good

@BBCBreaking: 2,745 judges and 5 members of High Judiciary Court Board removed following #TurkeyCoupAttempt, Turkish media reports
http://bbc.in/29Ks0ns
 
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais

joecct said:
That Reichstag fire analogy looks pretty good

@BBCBreaking: 2,745 judges and 5 members of High Judiciary Court Board removed following #TurkeyCoupAttempt, Turkish media reports
http://bbc.in/29Ks0ns
Click to expand...

Erdogan has already used terrorist threats as a means to stifle speech and consolidate power. This failed coup will put his power grab into overdrive.

In many ways he is playing the Turkish people just as far right pols play the game here. He appeals to the "how it used to be when we were great" sentiment, reminding Turks how great things were during the Ottoman reign and how they need to be true to their religious roots. Nearly the opposite of their founding father, Ataturk. I think a large number of people in Turkey probably wanted this coup to succeed.
 
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais

ticapnews said:
You heard correctly.

What I want to know is if Erdogan think the USA is behind the coup. Sky News was re-airing his speech and then cut away for breaking footage of police in Ankara. Before they left, the translation was "I tell all my general's the men around you may seen loyal but they are taking their orders from Pennsylvania...."

Either he thinks the governor in Pennsylvania is up to something or he is colloquially referring to the White House.
Click to expand...

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/0...lvania-for-turkish-military-coup-attempt.html

Fethullah Gulen and his supporters have long been accused of attempting to overthrow the government and it came to a tipping point late Friday when a pro-coup group within the Turkish military began its assault on the capital, Ankara, and Istanbul.

Gulen lives in exile in eastern Pennsylvania (the Poconos) and promotes a philosophy that blends a mystical form of Islam staunch advocacy of democracy, education, science and interfaith dialogue. He left Turkey in 1999 and had a massive falling out with his former ally Erdogan about three years ago.
Click to expand...
 
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais

5mn_Major said:
The key I believe will be to stay right in the middle of the tourist areas (Hagia Sophia, Blue Mosque neighborhood, maybe including a visit to the grand bazaar). And keep by the police. I decided not to get into what happened with them, but the police were very concerned with my welfare and ensuring that I would enjoy my time in Istanbul. Taking care of tourists and Americans in particular seemed to be a high priority on their list.
Click to expand...

My wife and I were in Istanbul and Ephesus for a day each as part of a cruise. These parts never left the tourist areas, so it's hard to speak for what it is like outside of them, but the touristy areas always felt safe. On both tours, the guides were very proud of their country's secular nature and put a lot of emphasis on it. I guess that wouldn't be surprising though, as they work in the tourist industry and having the country be more international and secular is frankly good for business for them. (I also wonder if there is a large coastal vs interior divide for the country along those lines.) I'm glad we want when we did (3 years ago); not that I don't think it will be safe again soon, but still this will hang over people's heads for a few years.
 
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