US Foreign Policy 3.0: We're The Mets of International Diplomacy

[dxmnkd316]

You really think the Chinese want a radical fundamentalist Islamic state on their border with the Uighurs? You really think the Russians want a radical fundamentalist Islamic state on the border with their Near Abroad client states?

Uh huh, sure.

Didn't Moscow host a Taliban delegation in Moscow recently? And I'm pretty sure they did just say that they'll be meeting at the Russian embassy this week. Ditto with China at their embassy.

No, I think you're wrong on this Kep. Unlike us, China and Russia won't have any problem just carpet bombing them into submission. We use targeted strikes and at least try to avoid civilian casualties. Russia doesn't give a single fuck. They were openly using barrel bombs (or whatever they were called) in Syria and do you remember any repercussions? Remember the sanctions on China for their genocide of the Uighurs? Me neither.



China and Russia are going to absolutely partner with the Taliban and they won't care one bit about human rights violations. They'll let the Taliban do whatever they damn please in exchange for resources. Both sides get exactly what they want.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Every non-Han in China is looking for a liberation movement.

And even if China winds up with a stable Silk Road commercial relationship with whatever is left of Afghanistan as it crumbles, fine by me. We don't own Central Asia. We don't own their wealth. And we haven't done a lick of good with our imperialism.

Imperialism isn't about "good". It's about resources and power. When you start adding "good" to the equation is when you lose your power.

Kinda sucks when you can't buy batteries because China has decided to fuck with you.

 

[Handyman]

I haven't heard Guam or the Virgin Islands screaming for their freedom lately.

That is cause they are territories. We were an occupying force in Afghanistan.

 

[Handyman]

Didn't Moscow host a Taliban delegation in Moscow recently? And I'm pretty sure they did just say that they'll be meeting at the Russian embassy this week. Ditto with China at their embassy.

No, I think you're wrong on this Kep. Unlike us, China and Russia won't have any problem just carpet bombing them into submission. We use targeted strikes and at least try to avoid civilian casualties. Russia doesn't give a single fuck. They were openly using barrel bombs (or whatever they were called) in Syria and do you remember any repercussions? Remember the sanctions on China for their genocide of the Uighurs? Me neither.



China and Russia are going to absolutely partner with the Taliban and they won't care one bit about human rights violations. They'll let the Taliban do whatever they damn please in exchange for resources. Both sides get exactly what they want.

It depends...it is never that simplistic for very long. And we are talking about Big Egos that sooner or later will need a war to justify certain actions. Putin might carpet bomb them but he will need more than that if the Taliban turns on him. (which they will) He will put boots on the ground...

China is such an odd duck I am not sure what they will do.

The US is not the only actor watching this either...who knows how this plays out.

 

[dxmnkd316]

It depends...it is never that simplistic for very long. And we are talking about Big Egos that sooner or later will need a war to justify certain actions. Putin might carpet bomb them but he will need more than that if the Taliban turns on him. (which they will) He will put boots on the ground...

China is such an odd duck I am not sure what they will do.

The US is not the only actor watching this either...who knows how this plays out.

China will do whatever the spreadsheets tell them to do.

 

[dxmnkd316]

I've seen a couple photos floating around about how we left with empty planes and just cargo.

Link

JUST IN: "The Crew made the decision to go" Inside RCH 871, which saved 640 from the Taliban ... from
@TaraCopp
and me https://defenseone.com/policy/2021/08/inside-reach-871-us-c-17-packed-640-people-trying-escape-taliban/184563/â?¦

 

[rufus]

Pretty sure Vlad will be quite happy with the Taliban as long as they use their "resources" to make life miserable for the western powers, and leave Russia alone. Pretty sure that will be the deal.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Jeebus.

640. "That’s believed to be among the most people ever flown in the C-17, a massive military cargo plane that has been operated by the U.S. and its allies for nearly three decades."

 

[Kepler]

I haven't heard Guam or the Virgin Islands screaming for their freedom lately.

The Guamanians hate us. The corrupt family that runs the show just keeps the lid on.

(Fun stuff you learn having a wife who worked with dozens of Pacific Islanders.)

 

[Kepler]

No, I think you're wrong on this Kep. Unlike us, China and Russia won't have any problem just carpet bombing them into submission.

You think we did?

Even after all this time the We're the Moral Empire myths persist.

American Exceptionalism, insofar as it used to be real at all (as a nation of laws) stops at the border. One foot on the other side we're every commercial empire with military hardware to convince that has ever existed.

We are gunboat diplomacy with missiles and drones. In foreign policy, we are Russia. China if anything has historically been way better (as long as you aren't part of what they think is their homeland but hey ask the Native Americans about us in that score).

America has, er, had many fine things to recommend us, but we are the British Empire or the Akkadian Empire. We do what we want.

 

[Kepler]

Imperialism isn't about "good". It's about resources and power. When you start adding "good" to the equation is when you lose your power.

Kinda sucks when you can't buy batteries because China has decided to fuck with you.

Then just nuke them and take the lithium. You are arguing two different things simultaneously: that Russia and China will behave differently, and that this is pure power and all foreign policy is smash and grab.

Insofar as you are arguing the former, that's false.

Insofar as you are arguing the latter, the only reason we're leaving is in Afghanistan we determined it's a mug's game. You'll notice we're still propping up the Saudis. There, the equations of imperialism still show a profit.

And here's the thing, we're still the hugest, and always will be, for the products made with all those tasty minerals. We'll just buy them on the market and let the new occupiers absorb all the other costs.

 

[aparch]

Thank you Handyman, French Rage, and Swansong. I appreciate the quick Cliff Notes.

 

[mookie1995]

You think we did?

Even after all this time the We're the Moral Empire myths persist.

Mookie blames this all on lance corporal Dawson nearly crying when he explained he was supposed to protect Willie!!

all downhill from there…..

 

[dxmnkd316]

I just noticed the Mandalorian looking symbol in that picture. Kinda interesting given the storyline in the series.

 

[dxmnkd316]

You think we did?

Even after all this time the We're the Moral Empire myths persist.

American Exceptionalism, insofar as it used to be real at all (as a nation of laws) stops at the border. One foot on the other side we're every commercial empire with military hardware to convince that has ever existed.

We are gunboat diplomacy with missiles and drones. In foreign policy, we are Russia. China if anything has historically been way better (as long as you aren't part of what they think is their homeland but hey ask the Native Americans about us in that score).

America has, er, had many fine things to recommend us, but we are the British Empire or the Akkadian Empire. We do what we want.

In comparison to Russia and China? Absolutely.

We're by no means innocent. And certainly in a historical perspective.

 

[Handyman]

China will do whatever the spreadsheets tell them to do.

That is probably the best way to put it!

Don't make the same mistake we all did when we entered this stupid war...dont assume you can find logic in any action in that part of the world or out of the actors involved. Just because they are all authoritarian criminals doesn't mean they will get along and wont stab each other in the back the second they can. (China will be more calculated) The hatred from the Taliban to Russia (and KGB punks like Putin who probably murdered their parents) didn't just go away and sooner or later they will push back. The Taliban isn't Crimea...

 

[dxmnkd316]

Then just nuke them and take the lithium. You are arguing two different things simultaneously: that Russia and China will behave differently, and that this is pure power and all foreign policy is smash and grab.

Insofar as you are arguing the former, that's false.

No, I'm not. They're going to take the path of least resistance. That means exchanging cash and power for resources. Nuking them is not the path of least resistance. Yet. I'm not sure why this is confusing you.

Insofar as you are arguing the latter, the only reason we're leaving is in Afghanistan we determined it's a mug's game. You'll notice we're still propping up the Saudis. There, the equations of imperialism still show a profit.

I don't disagree with that. Of course we got out because the costs of staying were more than the benefits. I'm not sure why you think I'm arguing anything but that.

And here's the thing, we're still the hugest, and always will be, for the products made with all those tasty minerals. We'll just buy them on the market and let the new occupiers absorb all the other costs.

This is funny coming from the guy who seems to always get in a quarterly blurb about empires always ending.

 

[dxmnkd316]

That is probably the best way to put it!

Don't make the same mistake we all did when we entered this stupid war...dont assume you can find logic in any action in that part of the world or out of the actors involved. Just because they are all authoritarian criminals doesn't mean they will get along and wont stab each other in the back the second they can. (China will be more calculated) The hatred from the Taliban to Russia (and KGB punks like Putin who probably murdered their parents) didn't just go away and sooner or later they will push back. The Taliban isn't Crimea...

Yeah, I'm not saying this a situation where both sides found their soul mate and they'll love each other for ever and ever and ever. I'm saying, for now, they are in a relationship of convenience. Every side gets what they want. Until someone's wants change. Then the inevitable messy breakup will come.

None of my posts have ever implied (or rather, intended to) anything but a temporary relationship between Russia, China, and the Taliban. It might work for a month, it might work for 100 years. But right now, they're absolutely trying to find something that works.

 

[Handyman]

No I know you are smarter than that it was more for Scooby!

I wonder how Trixie is reacting...

 

[rufus]

I've seen a couple photos floating around about how we left with empty planes and just cargo.

Link

Next, the Right will be whining about the Covid superspreader.