Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

[UnionHockeyManiac]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

Not happy either, but at this point I'm just happy there's another weekend of hockey (for us), two for you at least. If the regular season games were anything to go by, Friday's should be an intense battle. I'm excited!

Unfortunately, this is not guaranteed. While Union CAN still make the Nationally Tourney with a winless weekend in AC, there's a chance that they wouldn't make it with some upsets in the other conferences. Having said that, Union can be a #1 seed in the National Tournament if all of the highest seeds win and Colgate beats or ties Harvard in the consolation game. It's more likely that Union ends up as a #1 seed than it is that we end up out of the tournament, but anything can happen.

But yes, I'm definitely happy to be heading to Southern Jersey this weekend -- I rented a house last year, confident that Union would make it and then we all know what happened. I rented that same house this year and I'm glad I'll be able to see Union hockey this time!

Good luck to you guys...Colgate has proven that they cannot be taken lightly and I look forward to some close, hard-fought hockey.

 

[hockeyfreak88]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

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Apparently, you weren't watching the games this weekend. First off, one game was 3-2 and the other should have been 4-3 at minimum. Both contests were tied for a reasonable amount of time. I have Union fans in my extended family, and they (as well as other fans) agree that the disallowed RPI goal should have counted... especially since Union was awarded a similar goal the night before.

iagree with you that both games were hard fought. RPI did not give up and showed a lot of tenacity.but saturday shouldnt have been 4-3 at minimum. ff anything it should have been 4-1. the rpi goal on Saturday was not disallowed, it was never ruled as a goal in the first place (so it could never have even had the opportunity to be disallowed). the puck was covered and the whistle was blown. friday was a completely different story. merriam did NOT have the puck covered, the ruling on the ice was GOAL, and after video review they confirmed that it was in fact a goal. correct me if im wrong, but im pretty sure that no rulings on the ice were overturned. the RPI shot was never ruled a goal and it video confirmed it was not a goal, and the union goal was ruled a goal and video review confirmed it was a goal.

my saying that saturday should have been 4-1 is because on RPIs first goal, if you watched grosenick, he made the initial save, and the puck had an unlucky bounce over his pad. No RPI player hit the rebound, just an unlucky bounce for grosenick im pretty sure. also, i think it was 3 out of 4 RPI goals came off of bad union line changes or turnovers. Had they not messed those up, RPI could easily have only scored 1 or 2 goals on the weekend.

anyway, rpi definitely had much improved since the first 3 meetings this season, and IMO played 2 great games.

 

[ibanezist00]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

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iagree with you that both games were hard fought. RPI did not give up and showed a lot of tenacity.but saturday shouldnt have been 4-3 at minimum. ff anything it should have been 4-1. the rpi goal on Saturday was not disallowed, it was never ruled as a goal in the first place (so it could never have even had the opportunity to be disallowed). the puck was covered and the whistle was blown. friday was a completely different story. merriam did NOT have the puck covered, the ruling on the ice was GOAL, and after video review they confirmed that it was in fact a goal. correct me if im wrong, but im pretty sure that no rulings on the ice were overturned. the RPI shot was never ruled a goal and it video confirmed it was not a goal, and the union goal was ruled a goal and video review confirmed it was a goal.

my saying that saturday should have been 4-1 is because on RPIs first goal, if you watched grosenick, he made the initial save, and the puck had an unlucky bounce over his pad. No RPI player hit the rebound, just an unlucky bounce for grosenick im pretty sure. also, i think it was 3 out of 4 RPI goals came off of bad union line changes or turnovers. Had they not messed those up, RPI could easily have only scored 1 or 2 goals on the weekend.

anyway, rpi definitely had much improved since the first 3 meetings this season, and IMO played 2 great games.

The info from the TV commentator (according to my sources who watched it, since I was actually at the games) was that the RPI goal was disallowed (even though the puck was clearly over the goal line) because the referee had the "intent to blow the whistle" even though it crossed the line before it was actually blown. Pardon me if I'm incorrect, but the reason the whistle exists is to give a clear cutoff as to when the play is dead versus when it isn't. If the whistle was indeed not blown yet, it should have counted. I also heard from the same sources that the "similar" Union goal was scored the night before because Merriam had it covered with his pad, but yet they whacked a few times at it anyway and knocked it into the net, and because the whistle wasn't blown yet, it counted. Note that I'm just going off what I had heard.

I disagree on the 4-1 points and others you make in your second paragraph, but that's probably because we saw things differently due to fan biases

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

The info from the TV commentator (according to my sources who watched it, since I was actually at the games) was that the RPI goal was disallowed (even though the puck was clearly over the goal line) because the referee had the "intent to blow the whistle" even though it crossed the line before it was actually blown. Pardon me if I'm incorrect, but the reason the whistle exists is to give a clear cutoff as to when the play is dead versus when it isn't. If the whistle was indeed not blown yet, it should have counted. I also heard from the same sources that the "similar" Union goal was scored the night before because Merriam had it covered with his pad, but yet they whacked a few times at it anyway and knocked it into the net, and because the whistle wasn't blown yet, it counted. Note that I'm just going off what I had heard.

I disagree on the 4-1 points and others you make in your second paragraph, but that's probably because we saw things differently due to fan biases

I heard a clear whistle on the Friday goal in question.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

You are incorrect (ibanezist00). "Intent to blow the whistle" is a valid standard. The ref cannot be expected to skate for the full 60 minutes with the whistle in his mouth ready to blow. The ref knows at which point he lost sight of the puck, and that is when the play is dead, whistle or no.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

You are incorrect (ibanezist00). "Intent to blow the whistle" is a valid standard. The ref cannot be expected to skate for the full 60 minutes with the whistle in his mouth ready to blow. The ref knows at which point he lost sight of the puck, and that is when the play is dead, whistle or no.

I can hear all of the squeakball fans stating their objections. But you're absolutely right that intent is a rule, and has been cited (sometimes controversially) many times.

 

[uniontrack]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

I disagree on the 4-1 points and others you make in your second paragraph, but that's probably because we saw things differently due to fan biases

I really appreciate your comment here. I read your initial post and found what I thought to be a few inaccuracies in your descriptions. However, I can easily see how we would see things differently based on our allegiances.

There are times when fans from other teams come here to cause trouble, make excuses or just to argue semantics or small points. I normally will rise up and challenge these folks, just like there are fans on your thread that defend the honor of RPI through thick and thin. I appreciate your thoughts and your fan support of your team.

BTW, Union hasn't been an 11th or 12th seed since 2007 (12th). We have more often been in the 5-9 seeds, so its been a while since we were "in the basement". However, there seems to be a strong sentiment from RPI folks that Union only emerged from the primeval ooze two years ago. Whatever soothes the wounds, so be it

Have a good day.

Keith.

 

[ibanezist00]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

I can hear all of the squeakball fans stating their objections. But you're absolutely right that intent is a rule, and has been cited (sometimes controversially) many times.

I'll be honest when I say I've never heard of that before, and that I also agree that it is for sure very controversial. So what this means is that if the ref has the whistle in his mouth at any point, that can be considered, in effect, intent to blow it? What if they carry it around with it in their mouth the whole game, can the intent rule then be cited at any point? I'm asking more for purely academic reasons at this point.

 

[DavidSec17]

The info from the TV commentator (according to my sources who watched it, since I was actually at the games) was that the RPI goal was disallowed (even though the puck was clearly over the goal line) because the referee had the "intent to blow the whistle" even though it crossed the line before it was actually blown. Pardon me if I'm incorrect, but the reason the whistle exists is to give a clear cutoff as to when the play is dead versus when it isn't. If the whistle was indeed not blown yet, it should have counted. I also heard ofrom the same sources that the "similar" Union goal was scored the night before because Merriam had it covered with his pad, but yet they whacked a few times at it anyway and knocked it into the net, and because the whistle wasn't blown yet, it counted. Note that I'm just going off what I had heard.

I disagree on the 4-1 points and others you make in your second paragraph, but that's probably because we saw things differently due to fan biases

True enough but on the replay of the Union goal that Merriam had against his pad the replay shows the referee bringing the whistle up to his mouth as the Union player was whaching away ,before the puck went in . He had intent to blow the whistle IMO. However the announcer that was in desperate need of some water all weekend and Fridge didn't seem to see that, but they did mention the intent "ruling" when it would have resulted in an RPI goal. Either way it is history now.

 

[GRussinko]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

I'll be honest when I say I've never heard of that before, and that I also agree that it is for sure very controversial. So what this means is that if the ref has the whistle in his mouth at any point, that can be considered, in effect, intent to blow it? What if they carry it around with it in their mouth the whole game, can the intent rule then be cited at any point? I'm asking more for purely academic reasons at this point.

The whistle is attached to the ref's hand. While watching a play, the goalie gets a hand on the puck and the ref thinks "I need to blow the whistle". He starts moving his hand to his mouth to blow the whistle, but someone whacks the goalie's glove, dislodges the puck, and scores. The goal does not count because the official was in the act of blowing the whistle even if he had not yet successfully done so. That is the spirit of the rule. Once the ref decides the play is dead, it is dead; not when sound actually comes out of the whistle.

Sorry for the threadjack, just hoping to clear things up a bit.

 

[rdf8585]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

As exciting as it is that Union could do some special things over the next few weeks... it is kind of depressing that there's no more games at Messa for another 7 months. It seems like yesterday was WMU in October.

As tempting as it is to go down to AC, I'm probably sitting this one out since RPI-TV is supposedly behind the video next weekend. That should mean high quality streams, unlike the typically inconsistent (and usually subpar) streams offered by most schools.

 

[ibanezist00]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

The whistle is attached to the ref's hand. While watching a play, the goalie gets a hand on the puck and the ref thinks "I need to blow the whistle". He starts moving his hand to his mouth to blow the whistle, but someone whacks the goalie's glove, dislodges the puck, and scores. The goal does not count because the official was in the act of blowing the whistle even if he had not yet successfully done so. That is the spirit of the rule. Once the ref decides the play is dead, it is dead; not when sound actually comes out of the whistle.

Sorry for the threadjack, just hoping to clear things up a bit.

Thank you for the clarification. I guess in that case I take back some of the less-than-nice things I said about the refs/reffing.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

BTW, Union hasn't been an 11th or 12th seed since 2007 (12th). We have more often been in the 5-9 seeds, so its been a while since we were "in the basement". However, there seems to be a strong sentiment from RPI folks that Union only emerged from the primeval ooze two years ago. Whatever soothes the wounds, so be it

I'd actually take the average, and say you guys emerged from the primeval ooze in the 2008-09 season when Clarkson (SUCKS!) became the first team to blow a playoff series to you guys, in fact they were swept (that's one reason why I took our series from this past weekend so hard, as it seemed like we stooped to their level, and yes they're still our rival, although I observe the Union rivalry when it comes to football), and the ensuing confidence your team has enjoyed would explain to me, at least in part, your recent success.

 

[UnionHockeyManiac]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

Tied for #6 in the PWR.
Up to #6 in the USCHO Poll.
Still at #2 in the INCH Power Rankings - "After suffering a first-round upset as the top seed in the quarterfinal round last year, the Dutchmen left little doubt this time around. Union trailed for less than six minutes the entire weekend and swept RPI."

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

The whistle is attached to the ref's hand. While watching a play, the goalie gets a hand on the puck and the ref thinks "I need to blow the whistle". He starts moving his hand to his mouth to blow the whistle, but someone whacks the goalie's glove, dislodges the puck, and scores. The goal does not count because the official was in the act of blowing the whistle even if he had not yet successfully done so. That is the spirit of the rule. Once the ref decides the play is dead, it is dead; not when sound actually comes out of the whistle.

Sorry for the threadjack, just hoping to clear things up a bit.

Exactly. What if the ref fumbled and dropped the whistle just as the goalie covered up, so the offense kept whacking away for 10 seconds and put the puck over the line while the ref retrieved his whistle? That's clearly not a goal, though I could see an argument that there should be no penalties for hitting after the whistle in that case since the players' responsibility is to stop upon the actual blowing of the whistle - they shouldn't have the burden to attempt to guess the ref's intent in real time.

 

[Wholin1]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

Shameless Plug Department: Anyone holding tickets for last night's not necessary game can donate the value to the Garnet Blades by contacting the ticket office. Thanks.

 

[UnionHockeyManiac]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

Shameless Plug Department: Anyone holding tickets for last night's not necessary game can donate the value to the Garnet Blades by contacting the ticket office. Thanks.

Done.

 

[Wholin1]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

Done.

Great, thanks.

 

[uniontrack]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

I'd actually take the average, and say you guys emerged from the primeval ooze in the 2008-09 season when Clarkson (SUCKS!) became the first team to blow a playoff series to you guys, in fact they were swept (that's one reason why I took our series from this past weekend so hard, as it seemed like we stooped to their level, and yes they're still our rival, although I observe the Union rivalry when it comes to football), and the ensuing confidence your team has enjoyed would explain to me, at least in part, your recent success.

You make a good point. I still disagree, but that's not too unusual......

Keith.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

You make a good point. I still disagree, but that's not too unusual......

Keith.

To be fair, 2007-08 is the first year you obtained the bye, but you still got swept by Cornell, and had only 2 playoff wins to your name.