Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

[uniontrack]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

I'll just let you know now, at least from my perspective, what you had posted on the RPI board didn't seem like "an olive branch" and more along the lines of woofing, hence why I didn't take too kindly to it (not to mention my quoting of the movie "Demolition Man", only because your closing remark was "Be well" ). I'm happy that we can look past any notions of a rivalry and talk about hockey as it pertains to the respective organizations (at least for 49-51 weeks out of the year; game weekends are open season ).

You are definitely right about my first post...It was in your face and I wrote it out of annoyance......

I did post later to responses that I had been wrong to act that way and just wanted a healthy conversation.....

I live in Southern Oregon, we have very little hockey here so I like these forums....

BTW, I had an apple tonight...Huge step......

I want to see more than one team get into the NCAA's, but if Union did win the ECAC Tourney, they might be the only one.....

If Union loses along the way like last year, it seems like we can have two teams in the bracket......

However, we have to get through this weekend with 4 points to hold serve and set up the big final weekend.....

Keith.

 

[ADK11]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

Yes, insular scheduling is always a problem, even for KRACH. If there were only the ECAC and the WCHA and the only non-conference game was Union beating Alaska-Anchorage, Brown would still be rated above Minnesota.

I agree that's a significant part of the problem (at least from my Union/ECAC jaded perspective). The Big 3 don't play as many OOC games as the non-Ivy ECAC teams and typically play 3-4 games each against league foes and play more regular season games overall than the ECAC. As a result, their strength of schedule ratings, which are big part of the RPI, are based almost entirely on their league games. Ferris State (currently #1 in PWR & KRACH) is a perfect example. They played 8 OOC games against mostly ECAC teams, only two of which were against a TUC (Colgate). However, they have played 18 games within their league against teams that are rated in the top 20 PWR. ECAC teams therefore can't play as many games against the big powers and typically have to fill in with games against Atlantic.. and since the RPI factors 54% based on the opponent's opponents SOS, these games just kill the ECAC's SOS. Of course, it also doesn't help that this season there are 6 ECAC teams with 10 wins or less too. Take a look at the KRACH ratings and you'll see how terrible the SOS ratings are for the ECAC teams compared to the Big 3. In fact, Alaska who has a losing record, is rated just below Cornell in the KRACH mainly because their SOS is twice as high as the Big Red's. There's also a handful of teams that are TUCs in the PWR with losing records.. and guess which leagues they come from.

I know this is all just pointless whining and I do understand that Union or Cornell or Colgate would not have as good records if they played in HE, but it kinda sucks that the ECAC could end up with only 1 or 2 teams in the NCAAs.. and probably isn't entirely fair to Atlantic either. And it irks me that Union went out and played a virtual murderers row of OOC road games against some of the top programs in the country and STILL have a lousy SOS rating.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

I agree that's a significant part of the problem (at least from my Union/ECAC jaded perspective). The Big 3 don't play as many OOC games as the non-Ivy ECAC teams and typically play 3-4 games each against league foes and play more regular season games overall than the ECAC. As a result, their strength of schedule ratings, which are big part of the RPI, are based almost entirely on their league games. Ferris State (currently #1 in PWR & KRACH) is a perfect example. They played 8 OOC games against mostly ECAC teams, only two of which were against a TUC (Colgate). However, they have played 18 games within their league against teams that are rated in the top 20 PWR. ECAC teams therefore can't play as many games against the big powers and typically have to fill in with games against Atlantic.. and since the RPI factors 54% based on the opponent's opponents SOS, these games just kill the ECAC's SOS. Of course, it also doesn't help that this season there are 6 ECAC teams with 10 wins or less too. Take a look at the KRACH ratings and you'll see how terrible the SOS ratings are for the ECAC teams compared to the Big 3. In fact, Alaska who has a losing record, is rated just below Cornell in the KRACH mainly because their SOS is twice as high as the Big Red's. There's also a handful of teams that are TUCs in the PWR with losing records.. and guess which leagues they come from.

I know this is all just pointless whining and I do understand that Union or Cornell or Colgate would not have as good records if they played in HE, but it kinda sucks that the ECAC could end up with only 1 or 2 teams in the NCAAs.. and probably isn't entirely fair to Atlantic either. And it irks me that Union went out and played a virtual murderers row of OOC road games against some of the top programs in the country and STILL have a lousy SOS rating.

This is probably one of the reasons why the TUC criteria was changed from Top 25 to >.5000 RPIndex.

 

[Wholin1]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

I know this is all just pointless whining and I do understand that Union or Cornell or Colgate would not have as good records if they played in HE, but it kinda sucks that the ECAC could end up with only 1 or 2 teams in the NCAAs.. and probably isn't entirely fair to Atlantic either. And it irks me that Union went out and played a virtual murderers row of OOC road games against some of the top programs in the country and STILL have a lousy SOS rating.

Let's also keep in mind that with the exception of the WMU series, all of the tougher OOC games were on the road. I don't think that enters any of the power equations, does it?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

Let's also keep in mind that with the exception of the WMU series, all of the tougher OOC games were on the road. I don't think that enters any of the power equations, does it?

It might have an effect on who wins the game (especially with the way western reffing is), but it doesn't give any final consideration to home/away alone. The only thing that changes the numbers in RPIndex, PWR comparisons, or anything like that, is W/L/T. It doesn't matter how, or even a difference in how many. Just which goal number is higher at 65:00.

 

[rdf8585]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

Quinnipiac will be without Russell Goodman (7 points, 70 PIM) on Saturday night.

http://www.ecachockey.com/men/2011-12/News/20121602_League_Suspension

 

[rdf8585]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

Schott on the radio - Grosenick still a question for the weekend.

 

[ADK11]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

This is probably one of the reasons why the TUC criteria was changed from Top 25 to >.5000 RPIndex.

Yes, that is a good point.. U probably would not have made the tourney last season without that change.

Let's also keep in mind that with the exception of the WMU series, all of the tougher OOC games were on the road. I don't think that enters any of the power equations, does it?

Correct, as FlagDUDE said it is just wins & losses with no accounting for margin of victory or home/away. Apparently NCAA bouncyball does use some of these factors in picking their tournament, with the aim of having the better mid-majors in at the expense of mid-level teams from the top conferences. My feeling is that will never happen in hockey given that the big conferences/programs rule the roost..

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

Yes, that is a good point.. U probably would not have made the tourney last season without that change.

Correct, as FlagDUDE said it is just wins & losses with no accounting for margin of victory or home/away. Apparently NCAA bouncyball does use some of these factors in picking their tournament, with the aim of having the better mid-majors in at the expense of mid-level teams from the top conferences. My feeling is that will never happen in hockey given that the big conferences/programs rule the roost..

The reason we'll never have (again) what squeakball has is because our system of who makes the tournament is COMPLETELY objective. There is absolutely no committee hanky-panky. You know the formula going in, and what you have to do to get to the top.

Did Union lose that many comparisons last year? Obviously they were high on the RPIndex ranking, but I didn't think they lost a lot of comparisons. Did they have difficulty reaching the minimum 10 games to achieve a possibility at that comparison (how well you did vs. TUCs)?

 

[ADK11]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

The reason we'll never have (again) what squeakball has is because our system of who makes the tournament is COMPLETELY objective. There is absolutely no committee hanky-panky. You know the formula going in, and what you have to do to get to the top.

Did Union lose that many comparisons last year? Obviously they were high on the RPIndex ranking, but I didn't think they lost a lot of comparisons. Did they have difficulty reaching the minimum 10 games to achieve a possibility at that comparison (how well you did vs. TUCs)?

Yup, they wouldn't have had the 10 TUC games.. and (though mostly irrelevant) they didn't do so well in those games either. The change added 3-4 teams to U's TUC list including a couple that they swept in league play.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

Yup, they wouldn't have had the 10 TUC games.. and (though mostly irrelevant) they didn't do so well in those games either. The change added 3-4 teams to U's TUC list including a couple that they swept in league play.

It could be relevant, as a wash vs. a point could mean the difference between you winning and losing that comparison.

 

[uniontrack]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

And it irks me that Union went out and played a virtual murderers row of OOC road games against some of the top programs in the country and STILL have a lousy SOS rating.

I mentioned the concept of quality schedule a few posts back and this is kind of what I meant. Union used to schedule a lot of patsies for non-league games. And we got a lot of flak for it in the past.(always a mention about us playing the bedridden ladies of the poor or some silliness as that). I think that scheduling a lot of tough OOC games obviously helps the SOS, but its also a token of being just as good or relevant as any other program in the league, or the nation. Don't get me wrong, we still schedule Army and AIC every year and its been that way since I went to Union. Those games have their place in the schedule. I just believe that in terms of acceptance, that it's a little easier to be given respect by the other OOC teams if you're willing to leave the comfort level of the ECAC, for better or worse, and venture into some harsh barns to take on good programs.....

Question: did Union sign the contract for CC and DU for a home and home or was it just a one time deal? The same goes for Michigan. I won't be there if it does happen, but it would be cool to host these great programs in Achilles (oops, I mean Messa. It was called Achilles in my day)......Merrimack has been in the building that I know....One year, Maine came down to play us and we scored first early on and the place went nuts and the Maine players looked visibly unnerved by the atmosphere in the place....Of course, they went into intermission, fixed that flaw, and blew our doors off to win the game......It gets old having the same Liberty League foes on campus year after year.....

Keith.

 

[FieldHouseFaithful]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

Question: did Union sign the contract for CC and DU for a home and home or was it just a one time deal? The same goes for Michigan. I won't be there if it does happen, but it would be cool to host these great programs in Achilles (oops, I mean Messa. It was called Achilles in my day)......Merrimack has been in the building that I know....One year, Maine came down to play us and we scored first early on and the place went nuts and the Maine players looked visibly unnerved by the atmosphere in the place....Of course, they went into intermission, fixed that flaw, and blew our doors off to win the game......It gets old having the same Liberty League foes on campus year after year.....

IMO, theres a chance CC will head to Schenectady as they returned a trip to HFH this year,i would be shocked if you saw Michigan, i think i heard their gonna play Cornell at lynah (dont hold me to that) and doubt they will give up the home gate for 2 ECAC trips and DU wouldn't head to HFH a few years ago after RPI played out there for 2 games and our coach was an assistant there for years. JMO

 

[ForgsUhockey]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

Coburn is out tomorrow against Princeton and most likely will be against Qpac as well. Forgaard is back healthy for the first week in just over a month and will play tomorrow. Thats all I have for tomorrows game on injuries

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

IMO, theres a chance CC will head to Schenectady as they returned a trip to HFH this year,i would be shocked if you saw Michigan, i think i heard their gonna play Cornell at lynah (dont hold me to that) and doubt they will give up the home gate for 2 ECAC trips and DU wouldn't head to HFH a few years ago after RPI played out there for 2 games and our coach was an assistant there for years. JMO

I highly doubt CC will go out to Schenectady. Remember that not only did RPI go out to Colorado Springs for a weekend last year, but their athletic director used to work for the 'tute. As for the Denver "return", RPI was invited to their tournament, and the host school pays that fare.

Union might have better luck bringing in NC opponents if they moved the games to the Pepsi Center (or whatever the heck they call it now).

 

[uniondutch21]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

Times Union Center/ Pepsi for an OOC home game...interesting.

I'd go...but nothing against the rest of us Union fans, we're not as strong as RPI or Cornell. I think the place would be crickets.

We went to the tournament two years ago against cornell and it was 75/25 cornell/union fans. I just don't think the fan base is there to sell tickets. I'll mention it to the GM of the TUC though. I'd bring the wife.

See everyone Saturday!

Lets go U

 

[rdf8585]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

I'm starting to think Stevens will be playing both games this weekend. I don't think they'll chance throwing Grosenick out there at less than 100% and risk him re-aggravating things... not with Cornell and Colgate on tap next weekend and the postseason not long after that. I'm starting to think the goal is for Grosenick to be ready to go next weekend. On Grosenick, Bennett was quoted in Schott's game advance that it's fair to say he'll play this weekend and fair to say he won't. I could be wrong, but I'd bet on the latter. Based on the article, it seems like Grosenick has made strides but isn't all the way there.

We'll find out soon enough.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

Times Union Center/ Pepsi for an OOC home game...interesting.

I'd go...but nothing against the rest of us Union fans, we're not as strong as RPI or Cornell. I think the place would be crickets.

We went to the tournament two years ago against cornell and it was 75/25 cornell/union fans. I just don't think the fan base is there to sell tickets. I'll mention it to the GM of the TUC though. I'd bring the wife.

See everyone Saturday!

Lets go U

To be fair, if Cornell hosted a regular season game at TUC, there would be more crickets than fans, too. The only reason our large neutral site regular season games have been selling out is because they're against a big name opponent (BU) in MSG. Move them to pretty much any other arena in the country, even ones closer to Ithaca (possible exception of Fleet Center?) and the place would be less than half full.

 

[Wholin1]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

I'm starting to think Stevens will be playing both games this weekend. I don't think they'll chance throwing Grosenick out there at less than 100% and risk him re-aggravating things... not with Cornell and Colgate on tap next weekend and the postseason not long after that. I'm starting to think the goal is for Grosenick to be ready to go next weekend. On Grosenick, Bennett was quoted in Schott's game advance that it's fair to say he'll play this weekend and fair to say he won't. I could be wrong, but I'd bet on the latter. Based on the article, it seems like Grosenick has made strides but isn't all the way there.

We'll find out soon enough.

Rick Bennett was on the local College Hockey show last night on Time Warner and said Grosenick was about 90%, other than that he was noncommittal. He was also asked if he felt pressure to play all the seniors on Senior Night Saturday. He equivocated a bit and said his first priority is to win the game but he acknowledged the desire to let the seniors play. He mentioned one in particular, not by name, who had been in and out of the lineup and he seemed to be on the fence about his playing (Yanovitch perhaps?).

 

[rdf8585]

Re: Union Hockey 2011-2012 Season Thread "We Can See Cleary Now"

Rick Bennett was on the local College Hockey show last night on Time Warner and said Grosenick was about 90%, other than that he was noncommittal. He was also asked if he felt pressure to play all the seniors on Senior Night Saturday. He equivocated a bit and said his first priority is to win the game but he acknowledged the desire to let the seniors play. He mentioned one in particular, not by name, who had been in and out of the lineup and he seemed to be on the fence about his playing (Yanovitch perhaps?).

Ah, I have Verizon Fios, so I didn't see that. We'll see.