UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

[jcarter7669]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

I agree 100% with the innocent until proven guilty statement. And, while I think that the jury is still out on the assault part of this, I think it would be a stretch to believe a couple of police officers got together and concocted the resisting arrest part of it... especially considering it occurred in a public place where there were almost assuredly witnesses.

Of course its possible it is simply a frame up job concocted by Jerry York...

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

"Innocent until proven guilty" certainly applies to the criminal aspects of the alleged incident.

However, it does NOT necessarily apply to the determination as to whether the assailant should still be eligible to continue attending school, much less continue playing hockey under scholarship. There are disciplinary issues here ... alleged on-campus assault, likely domestic in nature, some evidence of physical abuse by the assailant towards the victim, incident occurring in the wee hours over the Labor Day weekend, and a very troubling resisting arrest aspect on top of it.

Circumstantially at the very least, there is every reason to believe some sort of substance abuse was in play as well. Let's face it, that is the "elephant in the room". We are all tippy-toeing around it so far, but it's out there.

If the school did not suspend the assailant at this time, it would have put Coach Umile in a very difficult position. Not that I doubt he would have handled things properly - but the incident did not occur on his "watch".

I'm not advocating for convicting the assailant at this time - there is a legal process in place for that - but let's make no mistake, the assailant's actions have put him AND the program in this position. Nothing else. Indefinite suspension is/was the correct call. And unless the ongoing investigation turns up the "other side of the story" being more accurate and credible, I suspect the assailant has played his last collegiate game.

Unfortunately we've had a lot of discussion over the last several months about alleged assaults arising from the UNH hockey programs, and I hope if nothing else, we now have a better handle on both ends of the spectrum - i.e the "constructive" assault allegations made against Coach McCloskey arising out of an in-game, profanity-fueled pull of a jersey/facemask, which now seems entirely motivated by future civil litigation ... as opposed to a "bare knuckles" domestic assault like this incident, with actual evidence of physical injuries (to both parties apparently, based on the assailant's mug shot), resulting in the immediate arrest of the assailant.

Maybe it's just me ... but it would be incongruous in my mind for the school that ditched and dumped on a respected long-time coach to then allow a student-athlete to continue in the school (much less the program) in light of transgressions far worse by comparison.

 

[Dutchman]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

+1. Not to countenance any of the alleged acts but, so far, we've heard only one side of the story.

We all remember the Duke University Lacrosse Team .... tried and convicted in the press and expelled .... season cancelled .... lives ruined .... until the facts came out.

 

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Anyone remember JeRome Wilkins? Anyone recall the legal verdict 16 months later?

Regarding Casey:

The incident did not occur on campus as Durham police responded(?).

The police report stated that DeSmith “appeared intoxicated” so that seems true. Also, "Once officers located DeSmith, he was taken to the hospital." It also seems true that this was not one sided, but c'mon Casey, even the NFL has figured out this type of conduct is illegal and bad.

Finally, "Once assessed, the officers attempted to handcuff DeSmith. He resisted and had to be wrestled to the ground...". If it wasn't already (it was); game, season and UNH education/career over.

 

[JB]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

We all remember the Duke University Lacrosse Team .... tried and convicted in the press and expelled .... season cancelled .... lives ruined .... until the facts came out.

This is my problem with the "current system" and not it isn't a UNH thing it is our current national direction. We convict in public opinion on limited information. In many cases it is a race by the press to release the most sensational information first and grab the headline and hence web traffic = $.

Admittedly I am stuck. Based on what has been reported I am not sure I want DeSmith playing as I don't condone the alleged behavior.

However we have a system that determines the "debt" that needs to be paid to society. So why if the legal system will determine that debt is there another one (suspension) to be paid and where is there any sort of due process in that action? Hasn't that punishment been handed out on a guilty until you prove in court you are innocent basis? The issue is time, it is fleeting. So while the legal action may or may not find truth down the road there is a "punishment" being handed out now that can never be taken back. If later, like Duke, there is some sort of explanation (that I can't possible imagine based on what little we know) the current "punishment" can never be undone, tempus fugit.

To be only slightly less abstract - I am still going to be vague. Back when I was an officer, I had a case of a person acting like a total idiot in the wee hours of the morning. In a short period of time - like 45 minutes - that person committed more than a few crimes, including assault, resisting arrest, assaulting an officer, etc. Turns out they were drugged by "friends". It took a while to figure out but in the end no charges proceeded. I am not saying that happened here but it is one of the millions of potentials which includes DeSmith did it and should sit in jail for at least a little bit.

I know the public eye is part of this equation. College hockey players live in the public eye and part of what the University is paying for in scholarship money is positive press. So you can see the University’s issue also in dealing with press. I don’t live in the public eye, but if I were to do something this stupid, should my job suspend me pending the results of the criminal investigation?

Did I mention I am admittedly stuck on this issue.

 

[zoofer]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

On the money Chuck....quote MS, "we at UNH take protecting the student-athlete a priority", to paraphrase....interesting to see how this whole issue is handled after the gag order MS put over the McCloskey issue.

 

[Dutchman]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

"The 23-year-old DeSmith was charged with one count of simple assault ..... "

http://www.nhcriminallawyer.com/areas-of-practice/assault

"In New Hampshire, assault is any sort of unprivileged physical contact against another person. The seriousness of the charge is determined by the defendant's intent, and/or by the degree of injury to the alleged victim.

First Degree Assault; Second Degree Assault

An assault that results in bodily injury can be charged as second degree assault, a felony. If the injury is serious, it may be first degree assault, which is also a felony. Additionally, if a deadly weapon is involved in the assault, the assault is a felony. A felony level assault is very serious because, if found guilty, the defendant can be sentenced to state prison.

Simple Assault

Simple Assault is a misdemeanor. Many people think that to be guilty of assault, they must hit or use force against another person. However, to be found guilty of simple assault, all that the State needs to prove is that there was some form of touching or contact, however minimal, and that the defendant did not have permission or consent to touch the other person.Simple Assault"

Not condoning any of his behavior and resisting arrest may get him rightfully expelled, but he was being charged with a misdemeanor ..... what is UNH's policy with regards to students who have been arrested and charged with a misdemeanor?

 

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Not condoning any of his behavior and resisting arrest may get him rightfully expelled, but he was being charged with a misdemeanor .....

perhaps x2?

Resisting Arrest or Detention. – A person is guilty of a misdemeanor when the person knowingly or purposely physically interferes with a person recognized to be a law enforcement official, including a probation or parole officer, seeking to effect an arrest or detention of the person or another regardless of whether there is a legal basis for the arrest. A person is guilty of a class B felony if the act of resisting arrest or detention causes serious bodily injury...

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/lxii/642/642-2.htm

 

[Dutchman]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

So we are looking at the possibility that he was only charged with two misdemeanors?

 

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

The Student Code of Conduct and Judicial Process:

http://www.unh.edu/ocs/student-code-conduct-and-judicial-process

Article III B.
1. University disciplinary proceedings may be instituted against a student charged with violation of a law which is also a violation of this Student Code of Conduct; for example, if both violations result from the same factual situation, without regard to pending civil litigation in court or criminal arrest and prosecution. Proceedings under this Student Code of Conduct may be carried out prior to, simultaneously with, or following civil or criminal proceedings off-campus.

Article IV D.
1. The following sanctions may be imposed upon any student found to have violated the Student Code of Conduct:
k. University Suspension—Separation of the student from the University for a definite period of time, after which the student is eligible to return. Conditions for readmission may be specified. Students are banned from campus for the duration of their suspension. Readmission to the University requires application and acceptance through the Office of Admissions. A student ineligible to register for or attend classes at any one USNH institution because of suspension entered upon a finding(s) of responsibility for violation(s) of the institution’s Student Code of Conduct shall be ineligible to register for or attend classes at any other USNH institution during the entire period of suspension.

l. University Dismissal—Permanent separation of the student from the University. Students may conduct administrative business on campus with prior notice to University Police. A student ineligible to register for or attend classes at any one USNH institution because of permanent dismissal entered upon a finding(s) of responsibility for violation(s) of the institution’s student code of conduct shall be ineligible to register for or attend classes at any other USNH institution for a period of two years following the date on which the student was permanently dismissed.

My daughter and I read The Code prior to her freshman year. She is a good kid, so we had a "friends, places, situations" conversation because the U is basically judge, jury and executioner if they want to be. Having said that, we were chatting last night and she said she witnessed numerous occasions where Durham or UNH police let kids slide in situations, none involving violence or assault, sexual or otherwise, that would likely have resulted in arrest in a community less tolerant of college behavior and pranks. We determined that the line between college pranks and criminal activity has moved significantly towards criminal activity since my time at UNH.

 

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

So we are looking at the possibility that he was only charged with two misdemeanors?

It seems so, but semantics don't enter into it when determining his UNH fate. Unless this somehow becomes a huge misunderstanding and all charges are dismissed, I suspect he is finished at UNH. Plus he'd still have to deal with Coach Umile who once suspended players for being where they were not supposed to be.

He seems fortunate to not have been charged with felony first or second degree assault although misdemeanor simple assault seems easier to prove. The felony/misdemeanor distinction plays out in where trials are held and if sentenced to time whether it is served in jail or prison.

Note: I am not a lawyer, don't play one on TV, but can Google with the best of them.

 

[Snively65]

It seems so, but semantics don't enter into it when determining his UNH fate. Unless this somehow becomes a huge misunderstanding and all charges are dismissed, I suspect he is finished at UNH. Plus he'd still have to deal with Coach Umile who once suspended players for being where they were not supposed to be.

More than once, I think. This kind of discipline is one area where Umile has been consistent over the years, and I respect him for that.

 

[Split-N]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

This is my problem with the "current system" and not it isn't a UNH thing it is our current national direction. We convict in public opinion on limited information. In many cases it is a race by the press to release the most sensational information first and grab the headline and hence web traffic = $...

...and a large chunk of it fueled by social media. Remember that in the immediate aftermath of the marathon bombing, the twitterverse had actually fingered someone else as the perpetrator. Again, not to countenance any of the alleged acts but I'm deeply troubled by the race to justice at so many "liberal" universities, which summarily convict and execute, then offer a half-hearted apology if the facts finally exonerate.

 

[Miami Ice]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Had DeSmith been at Hobart where you can rape a student, remain in school, and still play, this would have been a non-event.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

...and a large chunk of it fueled by social media. Remember that in the immediate aftermath of the marathon bombing, the twitterverse had actually fingered someone else as the perpetrator. Again, not to countenance any of the alleged acts but I'm deeply troubled by the race to justice at so many "liberal" universities, which summarily convict and execute, then offer a half-hearted apology if the facts finally exonerate.

And FWIW dept, the story regarding the "police report" has been updated by the New Hampshire (UNH student news paper):

EDITOR’S NOTE: Due to a reporting error, the original version of this story incorrectly stated that information about details of the alleged assault came from a police report. The information was in fact provided to The New Hampshire through a verbal statement from Durham Police Deputy Chief Renee Kelley.

Regardless, not a good situation, nope. But despite this, I pulled the trigger today and bought season tix anyway. That was the plan...going through with it. Interesting (and probably expected/not surprising) that the UNH Twitter feeds I get about athletics are talking up the men's basketball season opener, etc...not a word about hockey. Keepin' things on the low down? Drop the puck.

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Just got this link to UNH men's hockey video clip in my inbox.

http://unhwildcats.com/video/mice/MHOC_TIX_2014-15

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Just got this link to UNH men's hockey video clip in my inbox.

http://unhwildcats.com/video/mice/MHOC_TIX_2014-15

Funny you post that because I was sitting at my computer after school and saw it too and thought, what the heck...buy the tickets! **** the torpedoes!

 

[Ryan422]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014 Post-Season Thread: "Maybe Dick" Hunts the Great White Whale

However we have a system that determines the "debt" that needs to be paid to society. So why if the legal system will determine that debt is there another one (suspension) to be paid and where is there any sort of due process in that action? Hasn't that punishment been handed out on a guilty until you prove in court you are innocent basis? The issue is time, it is fleeting. So while the legal action may or may not find truth down the road there is a "punishment" being handed out now that can never be taken back.

So we are looking at the possibility that he was only charged with two misdemeanors?

Completely agree. He has been charged with two MISDEMEANORS. Obviously not good ones but he has not been charged with felonies. Why is he suspended from school? I know plenty of people from when I went there who were charged with MISDEMEANORS (simple assault and resisting arrest included) and never got suspended/expelled. Absurd. This happened off campus. Not the school's business (athletic department not included) IMO. As for the hockey team, if they want to revoke his athletic eligibility/scholarship I'm sure they have the right. Otherwise why throw him out of school? He will pay the legal consequences in court if found guilty. Why is that not enough? Let's not deny a kid who made a mistake (and it looks like a good one) an education. How will that help him down the road?

 

[Hokydad]

Completely agree. He has been charged with two MISDEMEANORS. Obviously not good ones but he has not been charged with felonies. Why is he suspended from school? I know plenty of people from when I went there who were charged with MISDEMEANORS (simple assault and resisting arrest included) and never got suspended/expelled. Absurd. This happened off campus. Not the school's business (athletic department not included) IMO. As for the hockey team, if they want to revoke his athletic eligibility/scholarship I'm sure they have the right. Otherwise why throw him out of school? He will pay the legal consequences in court if found guilty. Why is that not enough? Let's not deny a kid who made a mistake (and it looks like a good one) an education. How will that help him down the road?

punching a female student, spitting on her than haing to be wresteled to the ground during arrest??
absurd to think he should be walking around campus when she is a student there. If cleared he can go back and get degree.
He is in this mess because of his actions and a semester off while cleaning it up wont kill him. She is the concern and focus, not him.

 

[wildcatdc]

punching a female student, spitting on her than haing to be wresteled to the ground during arrest??
absurd to think he should be walking around campus when she is a student there. If cleared he can go back and get degree.
He is in this mess because of his actions and a semester off while cleaning it up wont kill him. She is the concern and focus, not him.

Had to pick myself up off the floor when I realized that I am in complete agreement.