UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

[JB]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

Really? The girls won the national title in '98. They've played in 2 Frozen Fours since the NCAA began sponsoring a championship, and in '08 they ran into an Olympic goalie on her A++ game. Also, in the pre-AWCHA tournament days, there were no western teams of note. The ECAC was the ONLY game in town. The girls won 5 ECAC tourney championships, which arguably was the de facto national championship in absence of a sponsored tourney.

99 - Lost AWCHA title game to Harvard (no shame Harvard lost 1 game that year)
00 - Didn't make national tournament - lost ECAC quarters
01 - Didn't make national tournament - lost ECAC quarters
02 - Didn't make national tournament - lost ECAC semi's
03 - Didn't make national tournament - lost HE Championship Game
04 - Didn't make national tournament - lost HE Championship Game
05 - Didn't make national tournament - lost HE semi-finals Game
06 - Lost NCAA semi-finals to Minn. (as higher seed Minn was 28-10-1 to UNH 33-2-1 going into that game)
07 - Lost NCAA Quarter Finals (at home as higher seed, 2-6)
08 - Lost NCAA semi-finals to UMD. (records nearly identical)
09 - Lost NCAA Quarter Finals to UMD. (as the higher seed at home, 1-4)
10 - Lost NCAA Quarter Finals to UMD. (Lower seed at UMD tight game)

It is clear to me that since they started going back to the NCAAs they have never under achieved (cough 06,07,09 cough).

Teams that close the deal don't make excuses.

 

[WildShawn]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

Or not.

Karen Kay thought the program would sell itself after the national title in '98. Recruits started going elsewhere, particularly to the Ivy schools.

When Coach Mac took over the team, they were not in a position talent-wise to challenge the top tier teams.

In 05-06 it was a young team which exceeded expectations. In the Frozen Four against Minny, although higher ranked, the Gophers had the more experienced squad. UNHs youth showed early in the game, as they fell into the trap of playing Minnesota's game, instead of imposing their game as they'd done all year. Even still, they came close to coming back, with the difference in the game being a BS penalty shot.

In 2008, calling it a "gaf" does a disservice to Kim Martin, who was THE difference in the game. UNH held Duluth without a shot on goal for more than a period of game time, and created dozens of high quality scoring chances. Martin, an Olympic goalie, stoned most of 'em.

The 2007 team was very flawed. And the 2009 team overachieved with a very short roster.

So where are these "gafs" you speak of?

They held UMD without a shot for over 30 minutes, including the entire second period in that game. http://www.uscho.com/box/?date=20080320&vis=unh&home=umd&gender=w

UNH was still a dominant team that year, and failed to close the deal, as they did in 06, and I'm afraid that they might see another chance like that in a while...
I hate to say it as I've enjoyed watching the program recover after Kay ran it (or watched it fall) into the ground, but they are being passed by new eastern powers Boston University and Cornell. Boston college has 2 olympians coming back and will be right back in the mix. This year was frustrating, and it looks like next year might take a step back...

 

[freak]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

00 - Didn't make national tournament - lost ECAC quarters
01 - Didn't make national tournament - lost ECAC quarters
02 - Didn't make national tournament - lost ECAC semi's
03 - Didn't make national tournament - lost HE Championship Game
04 - Didn't make national tournament - lost HE Championship Game
05 - Didn't make national tournament - lost HE semi-finals Game

All years when the talent level was declining and/or unable to compete with the Ivies or Western schools. You can't claim the team had a "gaf" when they were at a distinct talent disadvantage to their competition.

06 - Lost NCAA semi-finals to Minn. (as higher seed Minn was 28-10-1 to UNH 33-2-1 going into that game)

A more experienced, defending National Champion Minnesota on their home campus (not rink) in front of a basically home crowd.

Also, as dominant as that team was, one cannot forget that they played in Hockey East. Hockey East, in the womens game, has long been far weaker competition than the other conferences.

It was a young team with basically no big game experience, and that lack of experience showed in the early part of the game.

07 - Lost NCAA Quarter Finals (at home as higher seed, 2-6)

Clearly you didn't watch that team. It was flawed from the start. Relatively poor scoring and an inexperienced defense. Weak Hockey East schedule.

08 - Lost NCAA semi-finals to UMD. (records nearly identical)

This might be your only valid point. UNH absolutely dominated that game. But as I said, they ran into an Olympic goalie who played out of her mind. Still, UNH probably would have won it all that year if they'd been able to beat Martin.

09 - Lost NCAA Quarter Finals to UMD. (as the higher seed at home, 1-4)

You do realize UNH skated 15 players for most of that year, right? That was a very thin team that overachieved considering.

10 - Lost NCAA Quarter Finals to UMD. (Lower seed at UMD tight game)

A game in which they were the clear underdogs. A season in which they were not nearly as dominant, and as those who actually watch the team regularly, home and on the road, were hoping for a win but expecting a loss.

It is clear to me that since they started going back to the NCAAs they have never under achieved (cough 06,07,09 cough).

It's clear to me that you don't watch the team regularly if you think 06, 07, and 09 are "underachieving" years. At most, 2008 is your best example, as they were better than UMD.

 

[JB]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

It's clear to me that you don't watch the team regularly if you think 06, 07, and 09 are "underachieving" years. At most, 2008 is your best example, as they were better than UMD.

I follow the team but try to be objective. One could make some of the same excuses for the men side for some years. At the end of the day I don't think it is acceptable to lay an egg on home ice or as the higher seed in the playoffs. Not winning doesn't bother me but not showing up does. (1-4 and 2-6 games is not showing up)

Great line from an OK movie: "Losers always wine about their best. Winners go home and $%^& the prom queen!"

 

[UNH8]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

It's clear to me that you don't watch the team regularly if you think 06, 07, and 09 are "underachieving" years. At most, 2008 is your best example, as they were better than UMD.[/QUOTE]

As if watching the women's team on a regular basis is something to brag about

Is this the men's playoff thread or the women's annual excuse thread?

 

[freak]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

UNH was still a dominant team that year, and failed to close the deal, as they did in 06, and I'm afraid that they might see another chance like that in a while...

Agreed on 08, but I don't consider 06 in the same light. Even in the Olympic year, UNH was not expected to be as good as they were. And even though they were ranked higher than Minnesota, the Gophers were a Top 4, defending National Championship team playing in front of a home crowd. A bit different.

I hate to say it as I've enjoyed watching the program recover after Kay ran it (or watched it fall) into the ground, but they are being passed by new eastern powers Boston University and Cornell. Boston college has 2 olympians coming back and will be right back in the mix. This year was frustrating, and it looks like next year might take a step back...

The team has talent coming in. I, too, worry about what appears to be sub par recruiting compared to teams like BU and Cornell. Especially as recruiting is Coach Mac's thing. The other teams seem to be scooping up all the national team players, and UNH doesn't seem to be stepping up.

Also, I think one has to look at how Coach Mac builds a team. It almost seems like he tries to build a team like the 01/03/04 Patriots...extremely deep across the board, even if they don't have a ton of "star" players. He also seems to have an aversion to the attitude that often travels with star players.

But for a guy like Coach Mac, and his reputation for recruiting, it seems odd that UNH isn't even in the running for some of the top players. There must be a reason.

I also think the girls are getting hit by the same admissions issues as the men.

I've heard that Florence Schelling was originally committed to UNH (makes sense with both Martys here at the time), but for some unannounced reason switched late in the game. This opened the spot for Minton. Agosta is famous for having been denied admission to several big programs before Mercyhurst took her, and UNH was among the names. UNH had been mentioned as an early interest for Poulin as well, but never scheduled an official visit. Some rumors suggest possible admissions issues with her.

So while no straight stories such as with the men have surfaced yet, UNH has missed out on some top players, all Olympians, with no apparent explanation. And during this same time, the Men's team has also missed on talented players for admissions reasons. I don't think it is a coincidence.

 

[RockTheWhit]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

Also, I think one has to look at how Coach Mac builds a team. It almost seems like he tries to build a team like the 01/03/04 Patriots...extremely deep across the board, even if they don't have a ton of "star" players. He also seems to have an aversion to the attitude that often travels with star players.

There's also the fact that the "star" players are leaving because they don't like him .

 

[UNH8]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

Agosta is famous for having been denied admission to several big programs before Mercyhurst took her, and UNH was among the names.

Are any of the girls on the team "famous?"

 

[JB]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

UNH8 -

You need to include the / in the close so [/QUOTE] at the end to get it to work correctly.

 

[freak]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

I follow the team but try to be objective. One could make some of the same excuses for the men side for some years.

And the difference with the men, is that their chokes have often been when they were either the higher seed by a wide margin, or were considered to be a vastly superior team in talent.

NONE of that applies to the women, even when they were the higher seed. Yes, they were a higher seed than Minnesota...as in #1 vs #4 overall. Yes they were higher than UMD in 09...as in #4 vs #5 overall. Yes, they were higher than SLU...as in #4 vs #5 overall.

To compare the women's losses to the men tells me that you DON'T follow the team. You're not being objective just because you refuse to acknowledge anything other than W/L.

At the end of the day I don't think it is acceptable to lay an egg on home ice or as the higher seed in the playoffs.

Not winning doesn't bother me but not showing up does. (1-4 and 2-6 games is not showing up)

As I said, 07 was a flawed team from the start, but I'll grant you that they didn't show up vs SLU.

But if you think the loss to UMD in 09 was "not showing up," then you clearly didn't watch the game. That score was not indicative of how the game was played, and that UNH team with a VERY short bench absolutely came to play. PERIOD.

 

[WILD E WOLVERINE]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

And the difference with the men, is that their chokes have often been when they were either the higher seed by a wide margin, or were considered to be a vastly superior team in talent.

NONE of that applies to the women, even when they were the higher seed. Yes, they were a higher seed than Minnesota...as in #1 vs #4 overall. Yes they were higher than UMD in 09...as in #4 vs #5 overall. Yes, they were higher than SLU...as in #4 vs #5 overall.

To compare the women's losses to the men tells me that you DON'T follow the team. You're not being objective just because you refuse to acknowledge anything other than W/L.



As I said, 07 was a flawed team from the start, but I'll grant you that they didn't show up vs SLU.

But if you think the loss to UMD in 09 was "not showing up," then you clearly didn't watch the game. That score was not indicative of how the game was played, and that UNH team with a VERY short bench absolutely came to play. PERIOD.

How did you hijack this thread and turn it into a discussion on biggest chokes, and then bring in the women's team. Please make it stop

 

[Lake Whitt]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

As if watching the women's team on a regular basis is something to brag about

You're entitled to your opinion, no matter how ignorant it may be. UNH has arguably one of the most storied programs in women's hockey with more wins than any other DI program.

 

[freak]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

There's also the fact that the "star" players are leaving because they don't like him .

Actually, that seems to be happening across the board in women's hockey (Wakefield, Thibeault, Lam twins...and these are just some stars). And it's not just because these star players simply "don't like" their coach.

Part of it is because there is no "sit" rule in women's hockey, except within the WCHA. So there is less incentive do one's homework when choosing a school if there is no penalty of having to sit out a year if transferring.

As for the specifics of players not liking Coach Mac....he's a tough coach, and he makes no attempt to hide that. This is Division 1 hockey, and if these girls can't take some shouting, perhaps they shouldn't be playing at this level. Perhaps they should do their homework before committing.

Sometimes players (in general, no specific player) have an inflated view of their talent. Some have always been stars and assume they'll always be stars, and then get p*ssed if they're skating 3rd or 4th line as a frosh.

 

[UNH8]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

UNH has arguably one of the most storied programs in women's hockey with more wins than any other DI program.

Is that like being the tallest midget?

 

[freak]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

How did you hijack this thread and turn it into a discussion on biggest chokes, and then bring in the women's team. Please make it stop

Excuse me, I said nothing about chokes, and I did NOT bring up the women's team. JB brought up both.

 

[UNH8]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

Excuse me, I said nothing about chokes, and I did NOT bring up the women's team. JB brought up both.

Dude, JB made one tiny comment in which he simply mentioned the women's team along with the other UNH sports that have failed to get it done in meaningful postseasons. Then the conversation moved on to a discussion about past UNH men's teams because this the men's forum. Like 15 posts later, you start going off about the women's teams. How is that not a hijack?

 

[Lake Whitt]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

Is that like being the tallest midget?

It's like watching our men's team, only they win things.

 

[UNH8]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

It's like watching our men's team, only they win things.

It's like watching the men's team, only nobody watches.

 

[freak]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

Dude, JB made one tiny comment in which he simply mentioned the women's team along with the other UNH sports that have failed to get it done in meaningful postseasons. Then the conversation moved on to a discussion about past UNH men's teams because this the men's forum. Like 15 posts later, you start going off about the women's teams. How is that not a hijack?

Some of us don't live on these boards. I was reading the thread from the point where I last stopped, and as I have my settings set so posts go from oldest- newest, and not the reverse, I hit his post before those which came later.

Second, I don't need your permission to respond to what I consider a false assertion. I take no issues with his take on the men's team, as most would not, or the football team. But lumping the women in showed an ignorance of the team and the women's game.

 

[freak]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

It's like watching the men's team, only fewer people watch.

FYP.

Pretty much. Oh, and they win consistently, and you almost never question their effort unlike the men of the past few years.

5000 fans are great when they don't make a peep, right? I bet you're one of the hand sitters too.