UNH Off Season Thread 2011

[Nifty16]

Re: UNH Off Season Thread 2011

Kessel is not signing with the Islanders. He will be a free agent.

I was just about to ask that, that is what I thought. Chances Toronto makes a run at him to play with Phil?

 

[pinch]

Re: UNH Off Season Thread 2011

I was just about to ask that, that is what I thought. Chances Toronto makes a run at him to play with Phil?

Phil won't be playing for the Marlies

 

[JB]

Re: UNH Off Season Thread 2011

Seriously though, I always thought he was a bit overrated (though still good).

I actually agree with Nick that he was a bit overrated. Shot from the point was off net far to often and defensively he would show flashes but not the consistency.

However, always a bummer for any team to have a player leave early. He will be difficult to replace on the back end even if overrated he was still very good and a top end college player.

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Off Season Thread 2011

I actually agree with Nick that he was a bit overrated.

That is a complete shock! JVR, Kessel, Thompson and many more dating back years now - UNH's best players are never good enough for your standards...

Miss the net a few times, inconsistent defensively, blah blah blah. Already a two-time All-American, if he came back next year he probably would have lived just shy of this neighborhood...

http://www.uscho.com/stats/player/mid,16969/justin-schultz/#20102011

Not that it would have been enough for most UNH fans. He's a glider!!! OMG!!!

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Off Season Thread 2011

I actually agree with Nick that he was a bit overrated. Shot from the point was off net far to often and defensively he would show flashes but not the consistency.

It seemed to me and many others that Kessel played hurt most of his junior year. I think that he will be greatly missed next season, as the Cats will be challenged to score goals so will need to play stellar defense.

 

[C-H-C]

Re: UNH Off Season Thread 2011

It seemed to me and many others that Kessel played hurt most of his junior year. I think that he will be greatly missed next season, as the Cats will be challenged to score goals so will need to play stellar defense.

Based on what I observed during pregame warmups and games, I agree that Blake Kessel was playing through a right-leg injury (perhaps hamstring) during much of the season. As the playoffs rolled around, he seemed to be recovering somewhat because he was more mobile. No one close to the team either confirmed or denied that Kessel was injured, so I'm only guessing. If he was, it might account for why his numbers were not higher. He had a first-team All-American season but was not on the Hobey Baker ballot (he was on the ballot as a sophomore). An injury might also help explain why his stock apparently decreased in the eyes of the Islanders' management. Needless to say, if someone like Eric Knodel or Trevor van Riemsdyk steps up and has a career at UNH like Kessel, most UNH fans will be very pleased.

 

[JB]

Re: UNH Off Season Thread 2011

That is a complete shock! JVR, Kessel, Thompson and many more dating back years now - UNH's best players are never good enough for your standards...

Miss the net a few times, inconsistent defensively, blah blah blah. Already a two-time All-American, if he came back next year he probably would have lived just shy of this neighborhood...

http://www.uscho.com/stats/player/mid,16969/justin-schultz/#20102011

Not that it would have been enough for most UNH fans. He's a glider!!! OMG!!!

Not good enough? I didn't say not good enough. Just because I choose not to spend my life with blue and white glasses on. I did agree overrated. You can be an absolutely fantastic player and overrated.

Hot button example: I think Gretzky is overrated as the best player ever, I would take Orr, he completely changed the game. Additionally look at Lemieux’s numbers other than cancer shortening his career the numbers are not that different (per game basis), actually Lemieux was the better goal scorer. (That paragraph has the potential to make the summer more interesting.)

Kessel was rightfully in the All American discussion two years ago. This year I think he got a little boost based on his play two years ago, I also think he was hurt a chunk of this year. I am not sure he was the best all-around d-man on the UNH team, he was the best offensively and that gets votes.

At the end yes I am critical of players. I pay for and watch a lot of UNH hockey. If I see a player loafing on the ice I am going to note it. I have watched many I didn't find issues on their game and not just the give it all hustle guys: Saviano, Krog, Mowers, Gare, off the top without looking at a roster.

 

[i'zonprize]

Re: UNH Off Season Thread 2011

JB- I can see your point. IMO, Kessel's biggest attribute was his play in key game situations- and he was good at that in all 3yrs at UNH.

I guess Kessel hadd to do what he had to do, but for UNH- this isn't all that bad- other guys will step up, like Hardowa & Kip- will be interesting to see Knodel lace them up as well. He'll bring a physical pressence that Kessel just didn't have.

Best of luck to Phil..

 

[JB]

Re: UNH Off Season Thread 2011

JB- I can see your point. IMO, Kessel's biggest attribute was his play in key game situations- and he was good at that in all 3yrs at UNH.

I guess Kessel hadd to do what he had to do, but for UNH- this isn't all that bad- other guys will step up, like Hardowa & Kip- will be interesting to see Knodel lace them up as well. He'll bring a physical pressence that Kessel just didn't have.

Best of luck to Phil..

Best of luck Phil?...? He certainly needs more luck, untalented under paid...

In life we all have warts, I don't know why people here get so touchy about it, one trick is to know your own and work on them. Me I spend too much time doing this crap and I am a terrible procrastinator and... let’s just say the list is long…

I liked Blake as a college player and think it would be nice for UNH to have him back next year. I know Blake has been a excellent ambassidor for UNH hockey, extremely good with the fans - particularly the kids, and that too will be missed. I also can understand why he wants/needs to leave. Figure this is why he wasn't made one of the C's, I bet his teammates knew it was better than 50/50 he was gone. Based on who Blake practices with all summer (not just his brother but several other NHLers) I would guess he is making an informed decision.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: UNH Off Season Thread 2011

You can be an absolutely fantastic player and overrated.

Hot button example: I think Gretzky is overrated as the best player ever, I would take Orr, he completely changed the game. Additionally look at Lemieux’s numbers other than cancer shortening his career the numbers are not that different (per game basis), actually Lemieux was the better goal scorer. (That paragraph has the potential to make the summer more interesting.)

Fast Fact, Lemieux averaged 1.88 ppg, Gretzky averaged 1.92ppg. Lemieux scored MORE goals, I don't know if I would say he was better. One could argue he was more selfish, more of a puck hog, and that he played beside Jagr in his prime. Frankly, I think you are spending way to much time with Hokeydope in his mom's basement if you truly believe Gretzky is over rated? Lemieux had a shorter career, that's the way it is, Gretzky was a smaller then half the Maine Women's hockey team and he still did it. The adversity you overcame isn't a factor, everyone has their own.

Regardless I don't see Kessel as over-rated. Phil maybe, but not Blake.

 

[JB]

Re: UNH Off Season Thread 2011

Fast Fact, Lemieux averaged 1.88 ppg, Gretzky averaged 1.92ppg. Lemieux scored MORE goals, I don't know if I would say he was better. One could argue he was more selfish, more of a puck hog, and that he played beside Jagr in his prime. Frankly, I think you are spending way to much time with Hokeydope in his mom's basement if you truly believe Gretzky is over rated? Lemieux had a shorter career, that's the way it is, Gretzky was a smaller then half the Maine Women's hockey team and he still did it. The adversity you overcame isn't a factor, everyone has their own.

The overrated part for me with Gretzky is "greatest ever". I would put him as #1 on the list of forwards, but I don't think he is light years ahead of all forwards. For Lemieux I didn't know his stats I just tried to think of a Gretzky contemporary who might have similar numbers then looked Mario up.

As for greatest ever I have Orr #1 by a large margin (maybe I overrate Orr) - mostly based on how he completely changed the game. I would also put Patrick Roy way up high; he was the butterfly goalie that seemed to lead a revolution in goaltending. As great as Gretzky was I didn't see his play fundamentally changing the way the game was/is played (he was sure fun to watch).

I lean heavily on the game changers as "greatest ever" not necessarily the numbers guys.

Do you think Gretzky has the numbers if his career was in his prime today? I think he ends up lower (how much? don't know) because the game isn't as wide open.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: UNH Off Season Thread 2011

As great as Gretzky was I didn't see his play fundamentally changing the way the game was/is played (he was sure fun to watch).

I lean heavily on the game changers as "greatest ever" not necessarily the numbers guys.

Umm, maybe not how the game is played but certainly where. Before Gretzky moved to LA, there was no way hockey would have gone to Phoniex, Tampa Bay, or anywhere else within the sunbelt. He also took a sport that had little recognition and made it popular, or at least as popular as it ever was. Gretzky changed the game more then any other player in history.

As for today versus when he played? Tough call, he would have had a lot more open ice, more room, but more goalie blocking the net. I say it wouldn't haven't made a huge difference either way. And given him a stamkos, Ovenchin, or Crosby to line up with and you likely would have had more points.

 

[JB]

Re: UNH Off Season Thread 2011

Umm, maybe not how the game is played but certainly where. Before Gretzky moved to LA, there was no way hockey would have gone to Phoniex, Tampa Bay, or anywhere else within the sunbelt. He also took a sport that had little recognition and made it popular, or at least as popular as it ever was. Gretzky changed the game more then any other player in history.

I think you knew what I was talking about. Greatest players ever changed how the game was played forever between the lines.

As for Hockey in the south I am actually not sure it is good for the sport. It is sort of how Jordan changed basketball, the result of his greatness actually made the game worse, less team more me. Look at those teams, Atlanta is talking about moving (again - hello flames), there has been thoughts of moving Phoenix. It is nice that those southern teams are finally creating a new sources of players but I still wonder if it is sustainable.

There is no denying how much fun Gretzky was to watch, the puck on his stick was magic. Business wise he put people in the seats.

As for today versus when he played? Tough call, he would have had a lot more open ice, more room, but more goalie blocking the net. I say it wouldn't haven't made a huge difference either way. And given him a stamkos, Ovenchin, or Crosby to line up with and you likely would have had more points.

I am not sure he would have more open ice. All players (in all sports) are faster now, would his speed still be the tremendous advantage. Gretzky played in the NHL 1980 to 1999 doing most of his point damage 1980 to 1987 and really tailed of (for his standards) after 1995. The 80's were wide open hockey. From 1980 to 1993 the league essentially averaged 7+ goals per game per season (91 & 92 just below). The tight game I believe you are referring to with the open ice comment (I blame NJ) was really 1997 to 2004 where scoring was under 5.5 goals per game. Today the game is hanging between 5.5 and 6 goals per game. That is still a 25% drop in scoring. I think Gretzky in his prime today is easily the best player on the ice but doesn't produce anywhere near the points he did and because he didn't fundamentally change the game is not even in the greatest of all time discussion. He would be just another forward in the crowded discussion of best forward with Howe probably still leading the way.

 

[SkinsFan09]

Re: UNH Off Season Thread 2011

I think you knew what I was talking about. Greatest players ever changed how the game was played forever between the lines.

As for Hockey in the south I am actually not sure it is good for the sport. It is sort of how Jordan changed basketball, the result of his greatness actually made the game worse, less team more me. Look at those teams, Atlanta is talking about moving (again - hello flames), there has been thoughts of moving Phoenix. It is nice that those southern teams are finally creating a new sources of players but I still wonder if it is sustainable.

There is no denying how much fun Gretzky was to watch, the puck on his stick was magic. Business wise he put people in the seats.



I am not sure he would have more open ice. All players (in all sports) are faster now, would his speed still be the tremendous advantage. Gretzky played in the NHL 1980 to 1999 doing most of his point damage 1980 to 1987 and really tailed of (for his standards) after 1995. The 80's were wide open hockey. From 1980 to 1993 the league essentially averaged 7+ goals per game per season (91 & 92 just below). The tight game I believe you are referring to with the open ice comment (I blame NJ) was really 1997 to 2004 where scoring was under 5.5 goals per game. Today the game is hanging between 5.5 and 6 goals per game. That is still a 25% drop in scoring. I think Gretzky in his prime today is easily the best player on the ice but doesn't produce anywhere near the points he did and because he didn't fundamentally change the game is not even in the greatest of all time discussion. He would be just another forward in the crowded discussion of best forward with Howe probably still leading the way.

If he was trained to play in today's game he'd still blow out the league just with totals of 140 some points instead of 180-200. Also, give him today's training, skates and fiber sticks.

 

[Catnip]

Re: UNH Off Season Thread 2011

I am not sure what any of this chat about Gretzky or Lemieux etc has to do with UNH. It is for a different thread, in my opinion. Back to our team and I do feel that Kessel will be missed next season, especially on the offensive side of things. However, when we look at the close of last year and the playoffs, regionals etc, our PP was awful and the change may be good. I agree with L'zonprize and this will give a chance for both Kipp and Hardowa to contribute. They both showed they can do this in the Junior careers and at the start of last season were paired together on the 2nd team PP, if memory serves me right. In fact, Hardowa had 5 points in 7 games (I think) and for some reason, didn't get many chances to be on the PP anymore. I would love to see Kostolansky and Hardowa together on the PP and as they appeared to have good chemistry when they were paired a few times last year. The D is the big question for next season having to replace half of the starters and it will be interesting to see how they come together. Last year's defense was one of the best in the league in my opinion and helped to contribute to the good GAA . I hope this year's group can be as effective. Go Cats.

 

[C-H-C]

Re: UNH Off Season Thread 2011

I do feel that Kessel will be missed next season, especially on the offensive side of things. However, when we look at the close of last year and the playoffs, regionals etc, our PP was awful and the change may be good. I agree with L'zonprize and this will give a chance for both Kipp and Hardowa to contribute. They both showed they can do this in the Junior careers and at the start of last season were paired together on the 2nd team PP, if memory serves me right. In fact, Hardowa had 5 points in 7 games (I think) and for some reason, didn't get many chances to be on the PP anymore. I would love to see Kostolansky and Hardowa together on the PP and as they appeared to have good chemistry when they were paired a few times last year. .

In Hardowa's final season in the Alberta Junior Hockey League, he scored 70 points in 74 games, including 23 goals, and was named the AJHL's Most Valuable Player:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=99672

 

[UNHfansince1971]

Re: UNH Off Season Thread 2011

I am not sure what any of this chat about Gretzky or Lemieux etc has to do with UNH. It is for a different thread, in my opinion. Back to our team and I do feel that Kessel will be missed next season, especially on the offensive side of things. However, when we look at the close of last year and the playoffs, regionals etc, our PP was awful and the change may be good. I agree with L'zonprize and this will give a chance for both Kipp and Hardowa to contribute. They both showed they can do this in the Junior careers and at the start of last season were paired together on the 2nd team PP, if memory serves me right. In fact, Hardowa had 5 points in 7 games (I think) and for some reason, didn't get many chances to be on the PP anymore. I would love to see Kostolansky and Hardowa together on the PP and as they appeared to have good chemistry when they were paired a few times last year. The D is the big question for next season having to replace half of the starters and it will be interesting to see how they come together. Last year's defense was one of the best in the league in my opinion and helped to contribute to the good GAA . I hope this year's group can be as effective. Go Cats.

Personally, I would love to see Umilie approach the powerplay with Knodel in front of the goal, the way the Bruins have done with Chara and York did with Boyle... blocking the goalies vision and keeping the defense busy TRYING to move him out of the way. I think it would work, Lord knows the powerplay wasn't very good last year or two... time to try a fresh approach.

 

[carltonbarrett]

Re: UNH Off Season Thread 2011

Fast Fact, Lemieux averaged 1.88 ppg, Gretzky averaged 1.92ppg. Lemieux scored MORE goals, I don't know if I would say he was better. One could argue he was more selfish, more of a puck hog, and that he played beside Jagr in his prime.

If you're going to minimize Lemieux's accomplishments because of the fact that he played alongside Jagr (and Stevens for that matter), then you should also factor in that in his prime Gretzky played with Kurri, Messier, Anderson and Coffey. Not saying one is better than the other, but it wasn't like Gretzky was playing with a bunch of chumps.

 

[WIrinkrat]

Re: UNH Off Season Thread 2011

Personally, I would love to see Umilie approach the powerplay with Knodel in front of the goal, the way the Bruins have done with Chara and York did with Boyle... blocking the goalies vision and keeping the defense busy TRYING to move him out of the way. I think it would work, Lord knows the powerplay wasn't very good last year or two... time to try a fresh approach.

Great idea given how productive the bruins power play has been

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: UNH Off Season Thread 2011

If you're going to minimize Lemieux's accomplishments because of the fact that he played alongside Jagr (and Stevens for that matter), then you should also factor in that in his prime Gretzky played with Kurri, Messier, Anderson and Coffey. Not saying one is better than the other, but it wasn't like Gretzky was playing with a bunch of chumps.

No doubt, Gretzky had a great supporting cast, but none were the offensive sidekick Jagr was. And let's be clear, I'm not minimizing Mario's accomplishments, I am pointing out that there are other factors that need to be considered when looking at stats. Gretzky put more points the Mario, and he did it with less offensive help. Mario put up great numbers and was certainly a more prolific goal scorer, he also missed some primer years. Although Gretzky's time in LA could also count as missing primer years. But regardless, there are a number of factors, and at least IMO, there isn't a comparison. Wayne is a clear #1. Mario a clear #2 and you can debate the rest.