I think it was Lou Gorman at the time (if he was the GM) who said, "Who needs Willie McGee?"
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UNH Hockey 2023 Off Season Thread Turn and Face the Strange
- Thread starter HockeyRef
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I think it was Lou Gorman at the time (if he was the GM) who said, "Who needs Willie McGee?"
I think you are missing the 2 points Chuck is trying to (painfully) make.
Point #1 - Pick any good coach, Ben Barr is potentially a bad example, take Walshy, York, Parker, hell even Ned Harkness in their prime and give them the choice of:
- the 0th best (UNH) team's roster and recruits for 2023
- A random draw of 25 (22 skaters/3 goalies) from the other 10 HEA schools combined
The math tells anybody to pick #2. As you are statistically likely to get half your players from teams 1-5 in league and some of those might be stars on those teams plus there is a really good chance the 25th player on those teams my be better than all of the UNH players... save maybe (just maybe) the top 1 to 3.
His point is UNH is not good enough to NOT be looking for talent anywhere they can get it... as defined by being 10th in league and nobody on the UNH roster should feel safe even making the team.
His point is UNH is not good enough to NOT be looking for talent anywhere they can get it... as defined by being 10th in league and nobody on the UNH roster should feel safe even making the team.
Point #2 - related to point #1 with a baseball analogy on a hockey forum (NOTE: I am kinda done with old guy baseball talk too - boring, but it is the off season)
Chuck isn't saying "lets just blow up the roster completely" for some random people off the street. He is saying the 25th player on the 10th seed team is probably replaceable, really really replaceable. Hell there are probably players on the 11th seed team that could replace the 25th player on the 10th seeds roster. When you are the 10th seed ANY loss of talent is a big loss of talent, you aren't good enough by definition.
AND as a coaching staff over the last 8 years you don't have the credibility to say "trust me". I am not sure I can trust you to lace up your own skates.
That leads us back to nobody on the UNH roster should feel safe even making the team.
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Would be nice to get any info on somebody coming in from transfer portable rather than just 1A goalie going out and the captain (#2 scorer and #2 goal scorer) going out. Neither to the "pros" both to another Hockey East team. Another Hockey East team that mind you is further up the standings - so probably leaving for less playing time or less prominent playing time.
Darius
Go 'cats!
"Where would we play Willie McGee?" -- 1990, Red Sox GM Lou Gorman when asked why the Red Sox didn't complete a deal for outfielder Willie McGee
http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/2011/04/a_baseball_man.html
Darius
Go 'cats!
UNH isn’t cutting players or blowing up the roster. I’d like to think a few coach/player year end conversations included some limited ice time players being told their ice time would not be increasing and they might look elsewhere if playing in games is important to them.
To Chuck’s point, I used to amuse myself by hypothetically slotting our players into opposing teams’ rosters and vice versa on any given night. For instance, Lane Hutson would slot into our top defensive pairing. Duh, but where would Cy LeClerc slot into BU’s roster? 3rd line at best?
Points being we have plenty of room for player improvement, but limited roster space. UNH pretty much always honors roster and scholarship commitments. I am proud of that.
To Chuck’s point, I used to amuse myself by hypothetically slotting our players into opposing teams’ rosters and vice versa on any given night. For instance, Lane Hutson would slot into our top defensive pairing. Duh, but where would Cy LeClerc slot into BU’s roster? 3rd line at best?
Points being we have plenty of room for player improvement, but limited roster space. UNH pretty much always honors roster and scholarship commitments. I am proud of that.
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HockeyRef
Well-known member
My point entirely...not alot of room...not sure on the exact spaces that need to be filled? Anyone got a rough idea?
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Robert Balin
New member
Scholarships are given on a yearly basis so if players arent meeting expectations the College doesn't have to renew it. IMHO UNH didn't do enough to excell the rebuild.
deltabravo62
Active member
I can see why Fess liked the UMass offer and why UMass wanted him. They are bringing either the #1 or #2 goaltender available in the draft as a freshman this yesr so their junior starter from this season bailed. They saw that Fess is a serviceable option for a year if the new guy has a slow start (given his work this year with a struggling Muszelik). Obviously UNH was looking at Muszelik being the starter and if I'm Fess I would rather be the backup with a shot at the top spot in UMass vs UNH if I have any pro aspirations.
I hate to be the one to point out the obvious but with future considerations in mind for many players, a bottom tier team that doesn't have a track record of player development is not very attractive. As much as I hate to see players leave for better opportunities, I can't blame them for taking that step away from UNH. UNH is unsuccessful at the NCAA level and is not developing players for the next level. The last UNH player to make the NHL is Warren Foegele and its debatable where you can really call him a UNH product with his short time here.
HockeyRef
Well-known member
As per Warren wonder if Jack Edwards still calls him a "UNH" product...and...you are saying the quiet part out loud...
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There are about a dozen teams ranked below us with dinky rinks and fewer rabid fans that have multiple players in the portal (ex., Bentley has six, Brown has seven), so go get ‘em, MS7!
Edit: according to Robert Balin in the Maine thread, Bentley’s highest scorer this past year Nick Niemo is heading to Orono.
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See this is the heart of the problem. An excellent leader can inspire players and the goal is to inspire to come and to stay. Now we are back to the 8 years MS7 has been here, his words have stopped having the meaning because he has been around long enough that he needs to have results to point out.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
There is a somewhat viable alternative not too far removed from UNH ... when 'Watcher puts out his lists of top prospects and where they're going school-wise, UNH and UMass Lowell are usually at the kiddie pool end of the spectrum. And it's not like Coach Bazin has a lengthy history of placing his kids into the NHL (in fact, most prominent UML NHL alums predate the Hellebuyck/Bazin Era) - it's been almost as bare in terms of developmental stories in his program as it's been up here. But what they do is (1) recruit older players who (2) usually stay at least 3 years, if not the full four year hitch, and (3) run a tight systems-driven ship that makes them a competitive team, year in and year out. So with a little more maturity, a little more bulk, and a little bit of esprit de corps, Bazin churns out competitive teams that surprise every once in awhile.
That's their niche. At the outset of his stint in Lowell, he also had some high end talent, and Bazin took that as far as he could nationally. He's not getting that same level talent anymore, but apparently his ability to coach, build and communicate effectively keeps his program afloat and (usually) overperforming. Lowell fans may eventually tire of this repeated formula, but say what you will, he's accomplished more with less than his coaching counterparts on St. Botolph St. and Storrs CT, and (but for one magical moment) arguably Providence as well. He and his program are what Scotty Borek down the street aspires to be someday.
Given the history of the UNH program, and the more open style of hockey favored by Coaches Holt and Umile over the years, I'm not sure a Bazin-style coach would sell long-term in Durham. He'd be a HUGE and welcome upgrade right now, and that's not even a close call ... but as we found with Coach Herrion recently, even transformational coaches who get a program out of the dumps to a .500-type level eventually fall victim to their own limitations, and it's someone else who swoops in to either (1) push further up (2) maintain mediocrity OR (3) tank it again.
The current program's problem, as db62 points out, is that MS7 apparently isn't particularly good at any aspect of his job. The scary thing is that, arguably, his recruiting may actually be his strong suit? It's not that he hauls in lots of blue-chippers, but he lands a few really decent players who sneak through somehow. Very few develop, they don't win consistently, and I'm not sure the portal activity suggests there is an esprit de corps around the program to keep the kids attachd to each other. Not knowing the answer, I'd be interested to see UML's portal activity - especially outgoing. I'm guessing it's pretty tame? And above all else, if true, I think that speaks to the idea that most kids still want to be part of a winning program - especially if their "next level" outlook is sub-NHL. So go build a winner, and let nature take its course ...
Looks like Bazin is losing four senior forwards and one junior goalie to portal:
Brian Chambers, 28 gm, 8+11=19 pts, to AZ State
Ryan Brushett, 24 gm, 1+9=10 pts, to RPI
Blake Wells, 22 gm, 2+1= 3 pts
Nik Armstrong-Kingcade, 10 gm, 0 pts
Edvard Nordland, 1 period, 2 goals, 6.00 gaa, 0.667 Sv%
Incoming to UML from portal:
Luke Pavicich, sophomore goalie from UMass-Flagship, 8-10-4, 2,75 gaa, 9.20 Sv%
Alex Peterson, senior forward from Holy Cross, 38 gm, 5+14= 19 pts
With David Fessenden going to UMass-Flagship and Pavicich going from Flagship to UML, maybe Edvard Nordland should come to UNH from UML to complete three-team goalie portal exchange?
Darius
Go 'cats!
Lots of winners in proposed state budget. That could change Thursday:
https://newhampshirebulletin.com/20...osed-state-budget-that-could-change-thursday/
“The University of New Hampshire would lose $2 million of the $8 million the governor proposed for a new hockey arena, but University System of New Hampshire would get $2 million for general support in fiscal year 2025.”
https://newhampshirebulletin.com/20...osed-state-budget-that-could-change-thursday/
“The University of New Hampshire would lose $2 million of the $8 million the governor proposed for a new hockey arena, but University System of New Hampshire would get $2 million for general support in fiscal year 2025.”
Darius
Go 'cats!
NH Numbers Bonus Challenge: the first 1,000 donors who give online today (April 5) and haven't already during this year's #UNH603 Challenge, in a total amount containing the numerals 6, 0, and 3 will receive a $50 bonus added to their gift! https://unh.me/42Cz6mt:
https://twitter.com/unhalumni/status/1643571099525951497?s=61&t=SD8SPvNAozVVNdZeXfluiw
https://twitter.com/unhalumni/status/1643571099525951497?s=61&t=SD8SPvNAozVVNdZeXfluiw
Interesting portal entry today - defenseman Ryan Siedem of Harvard has posted his name as a graduate transfer, who does not wish to be contacted by schools. That usually means (as was the case with Fessenden) that the player has already selected his preferred destination. UNH would be factor for Siedem's immediate consideration as he is the older brother of forward Jason Siedem who is expected to arrive at UNH this fall. If I recall correctly, both originally committed to BC expecting to eventually play together before following different and separate paths...
Ryan played three seasons at Harvard, plus a sophomore season in the USHL when the Ivy's did not compete due to COVID. He posted four goals and 37 points in 68 games over the past two seasons. Ivy players CANNOT use their graduate seasons in the Ivy league, which is why so many Ivy players enter the portal with their single season of eligibility remaining. He'd upgrade the UNH defense, undoubtedly, though that is certainly not the Wildcat's largest need...
https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/445603/ryan-siedem
Ryan played three seasons at Harvard, plus a sophomore season in the USHL when the Ivy's did not compete due to COVID. He posted four goals and 37 points in 68 games over the past two seasons. Ivy players CANNOT use their graduate seasons in the Ivy league, which is why so many Ivy players enter the portal with their single season of eligibility remaining. He'd upgrade the UNH defense, undoubtedly, though that is certainly not the Wildcat's largest need...
https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/445603/ryan-siedem
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Lol Snively65 that's what UNH needs a goalie with Nordlands stats
Intereesting...even Normie loses a decent forward..hasnt UML benefitted from getting a UMass goalie in the not so recent past...? DB62 we talked about that?
These players have the chance to do something different (or are politely nudged out of the nest) and I cant blame them...
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Funny you bring this player up as I just read about his brother (2023 UNH commit) and his playoff goals from a Twitter post reported by CHC. Interesting...maybe we get lucky here tho I echo your sentiment regarding our needs..
Would have to look. Not sure if Kalle E is returning for example for a 5th year. Since UNH doesn't or hasn't put out a "who's returning" tweet / article hard to say? But yeah...sounds like a decent player.
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At tis point to get back does UNH need to go through the system phase, get back to something respectable, so able to draw the talent to play more of an open style?
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