UNH Hockey 2023-2024 Season Thread - End Of The Cellar-Dweller Era??

[HockeyRef]

JB, excellent post, and, perhaps those who have been with the program and understand the dynamics of recruiting will chime in. I think, tho, in my limited way
of understanding how this all goes down (and I'm getting better at it) you've pretty much answered your own question...the recruiting has definitely improved and with
the success of the team more of the same 'should' show up in a perfect world. Not sure who does the bulk of the recruiting and I'd think all 3 have an impact in this,
but obviously there seems to be a 'point man' in the mix like McCloskey was to Umile, as you say. Borek came after, if I have that right, and, he brought in some
significant talent.

On another note, I think part of this is that Mike Souza has embraced the concept (and this is hugggeee speculation on my part) that this is HIS team and its time for HIM
to get this show on the road. I think he's held onto DU's coattails and has finally let those go. Sounds kind of childish doesn't it but you can see a difference in the way he
carries himself, does interviews. Of course, what do I know but, you can see a difference and that has translated all the way down the line. Too bad we can't see what
March 2024 looks like, because, by then, we'd have a more definitive look at how it all panned out. I just think, maybe the HC has turned a corner...if anything. And it helps as a
motivator as he is very well aware of what the outcome for his future (at UNH) will be if the team doesn't produce decent results this season.

And then, there's buy in from the team itself. They are the ones doing the heavy lifting and I'd think, they just want to be a better team. Their compete level has been a
vast improvement from game to game, as has been noted they seem to play a full 60 of intensity you didn't often see in past seasons. I said this earlier and it was scoffed at
that UNH could play with 'anyone' and I still think that right now.

Looking forward to more from those with a deeper understanding- I wish CHC would post on this as his view of recruiting is always spot on...I think of one of
his early season Twitter posts when he said "No matter how UNH does this season they will do it with the best roster they've had in many years" or something
to that effect. I do believe, he's right.

 

[JB]

On another note, I think part of this is that Mike Souza has embraced the concept (and this is hugggeee speculation on my part) that this is HIS team and its time for HIM

I don't subscribe to this line of thinking. Partly because I think the product on the ice is really driven by the talent and culture. I can't see an existing coach driving a culture change in one year. Yes if a new coach and doing a big roster turnover (see UMass, Carvel). Wanting it more to save your job, probably doesn't help.

I think coaches can screw it up easier than anything else. See 2 guys below the goal line on a 5x3. See Umile's teams playing super tight in big moments because he was clearly super tight.

And then, there's buy in from the team itself. They are the ones doing the heavy lifting and I'd think, they just want to be a better team. Their compete level has been a vast improvement from game to game, as has been noted they seem to play a full 60 of intensity you didn't often see in past seasons.

This I might put a little weight into. The team choosing to work harder in the off season to make sure they could compete for the full 60 minutes.

Ultimately it is all about putting the puck in the net. Everything gets a little easier when you score more. Margins for error are bigger confidence you can score a goal and get back in a game gets bigger. Putting the puck in the net is about the talent.

It is why turn arounds like the afore mentioned UMass all start with upgrading talent.

 

[Darius]

I don't subscribe to this line of thinking. Partly because I think the product on the ice is really driven by the talent and culture. I can't see an existing coach driving a culture change in one year. Yes if a new coach and doing a big roster turnover (see UMass, Carvel). Wanting it more to save your job, probably doesn't help.

I think coaches can screw it up easier than anything else. See 2 guys below the goal line on a 5x3. See Umile's teams playing super tight in big moments because he was clearly super tight.



This I might put a little weight into. The team choosing to work harder in the off season to make sure they could compete for the full 60 minutes.

Ultimately it is all about putting the puck in the net. Everything gets a little easier when you score more. Margins for error are bigger confidence you can score a goal and get back in a game gets bigger. Putting the puck in the net is about the talent.

It is why turn arounds like the afore mentioned UMass all start with upgrading talent.

Agreed, but also with 'ref that "Mike Souza has embraced the concept (and this is hugggeee speculation on my part) that this is HIS team and its time for HIM to get this show on the road". It does appear that he is treating Freshman and upper classmen differently than he was and Coach Umile did. "Ryan, you may be a Freshman, but you are also as talented as any Freshman in the country. Show it."

Totally agree on the second bold. One gets the feeling that LeClerc, Gagne and maybe some others vocalized that this is not the UNH team they grew up watching or want to be a part of and it's time do do something about it.

100% speculation.

 

[phb]

It has been interesting watching from afar. This is the first time in years I really wish I could catch a game at the Whit. Would it be fair to say one of the differences so far is that the team overall is more assertive versus tentative in recent years……Too bad they don’t play at Arizona State this year.

 

[JB]

Agreed, but also with 'ref that "Mike Souza has embraced the concept (and this is hugggeee speculation on my part) that this is HIS team and its time for HIM to get this show on the road". It does appear that he is treating Freshman and upper classmen differently than he was and Coach Umile did. "Ryan, you may be a Freshman, but you are also as talented as any Freshman in the country. Show it."

Souza played on a line with D. Haydar. Haydar was a freshman. Honestly Souza was the 3rd guy. So he lived Umile playing a talented freshman on the first line. Honestly in 98-99 we all went who is this little kid on the first line, didn't take long to see it. Same as Comny you could see it the first game.

Who was the other freshman this talented that Souza brought in the last 8 years that should have had 1st line time from day one?

 

[bakchk20]

Souza played on a line with D. Haydar. Haydar was a freshman. Honestly Souza was the 3rd guy. So he lived Umile playing a talented freshman on the first line. Honestly in 98-99 we all went who is this little kid on the first line, didn't take long to see it. Same as Comny you could see it the first game.

Who was the other freshman this talented that Souza brought in the last 8 years that should have had 1st line time from day one?

I'll take the cheese on this one: Warren Foegele, runner-up to Liam Blackburn

 

[JB]

I'll take the cheese on this one: Warren Foegele, runner-up to Liam Blackburn

I never said Umile was good at appropriately using young talent. My point is that this is not some new concept completely foreign to UNH Hockey in the Umile/Souza time frame and as a point of fact Souza lived it, successfully, as a player. Which makes it hard for me to buy in that Souza is doing something new because now it is "HIS team".

Leadership is about followership (followers choose to follow a leader). This is more true in college hockey today, transfer portal, than in the past. I just don't buy that college players follow Souza because: he demands it, to "save" his job, because in 2023 it is now his team, because he is under the gun and feels urgency, etc.

 

[Snively65]

Souza played on a line with D. Haydar. Haydar was a freshman. Honestly Souza was the 3rd guy. So he lived relies, playing a talented freshman on the first line. Honestly in 98-99 we all went who is this little kid on the first line, didn't take long to see it. Same as Comny you could see it the first game.

Who was the other freshman this talented that Souza brought in the last 8 years that should have had 1st line time from day one?

Very thoughtful post, JB, which is already generating some excellent replies, I think.

I think that Conmy is the second since Haydar worthy to be a first year player on the first line (the other was LeClerk last season). Had not Bekar left after three years, I think that it would have been a first line of Bekar-Krog-Haydar in the 1998/99 season instead of Souza, as Swain (soph), Ficek (soph), and Cordeiro (fresh) were not nearly as worthy as Haydar on the right side. Mowers and Nolan were also lost from the 1997/98 team, which opened up the slot for Haydar on the right side of the first line. I think that the 1997/98 team had much better depth up front than the 1998/99 team with its second line of juniors Shipulski and Sadowski with one of the other three mentioned above. In contrast, I think that the 2001/02 and 2002/03 FF teams had much more depth up front than either the 1997/98 or 1998/99 teams, if not having singular talents the likes of Bekar, Mowers, or Krog.

I am not sure why anyone considers this year’s team to be Souza’s first owned, as the rosters for the last two to three years have consisted mostly of Souza’s recruits from his first three years as Umile’s assistant. I cannot imagine Conmy or LeClerk playing behind anyone else on the first line as freshmen the past two seasons, as the recruiting over the past few years has been mediocre at best.

As for bckchk’s suggestion for Foegele (Umile-era recruit, I think) being first-line worthy in the 2014/15 season, I do not think that there was a way in which Foegele was going to displace TyK (soph) on the left side, or seniors Downing or Willows, but I think that Foegele probably should have played on the second line with Poturalski (fresh) and Thrush (senior) in place of Correale (junior) on the left side.

As for bckchk’s suggestion for Blackman being first-line worthy in the 2016/17 season (also Umile-era recruit, I think), I do not think that there was a way in which Blackman was going to displace any of the seniors TyK, Salvaggio, or McNicholas. But, I liked the first-year third line of BvR, Grasso, and Blackburn that season, which was as productive as the second line of Nazarian, Vela, and Eiserman, which was injury-prone.

In sum, if one counts Devlin from two years ago, I think that Souza has scored with one superb forward each of last three years, after serval dry years. If Souza can score two top forward recruits for next season (the Ontario bros?), now we will be talking a couple top lines along with some forward depth, which we have not seen in several years.

 

[HockeyRef]

I never said Umile was good at appropriately using young talent. My point is that this is not some new concept completely foreign to UNH Hockey in the Umile/Souza time frame and as a point of fact Souza lived it, successfully, as a player. Which makes it hard for me to buy in that Souza is doing something new because now it is "HIS team".

Leadership is about followership (followers choose to follow a leader). This is more true in college hockey today, transfer portal, than in the past. I just don't buy that college players follow Souza because: he demands it, to "save" his job, because in 2023 it is now his team, because he is under the gun and feels urgency, etc.

Well ok then. Let's take Souza out of this and go with a few offered possibilities already stated...

In a Nutshell:

*LeClerc and Gagne wanted to be a better version of the Wildcats
*Coach Jeff is the answer to MS7's prayers (oops I said I'd leave him out of it my bad)
*They have adopted a new 'in your face' style of hockey that plays a full 60

Would love to hear more POV on this...it's a great topic!

 

[After the Whistle]

Yes Ref this is a great conversation. Lots of interesting and good thoughts. I don’t see this years team coming out of no where. 3 years ago I could see an improvement with team effort but still no scoring and many defensive lapses. At the end of their freshmen year Devlin and I believe Cronin made a big statement about how the team was ready for a big step forward. Last year they appeared energized by a couple of descent freshmen, with Cy leading the way. He had a great start but appeared to reach a ceiling after the first of the year. HE schedule and teams looking for him may have contributed.

But they looked better last year and appeared to be working very hard and with a lot of grit.
Teamplay was spotty and as we saw the end of the year was not rewarding for the team. This years freshmen have just blended so well with the existing talent to the point that I believe we can roll 4 lines all game. Look at Connor Sweeney, he plays with such grit and determination that he find a heck of a lot of ice both on the P

 

[JB]

Well ok then. Let's take Souza out of this and go with a few offered possibilities already stated...

In a Nutshell:

*LeClerc and Gagne wanted to be a better version of the Wildcats
*Coach Jeff is the answer to MS7's prayers (oops I said I'd leave him out of it my bad)
*They have adopted a new 'in your face' style of hockey that plays a full 60

Would love to hear more POV on this...it's a great topic!

It is not a requirement to agree with me. (You are welcome to be wrong )

I really think it is recruiting that has changed. Just what changed inside that? New Coach? New approach? Better job of identifying or closing?

 

[HockeyRef]

Yes Ref this is a great conversation. Lots of interesting and good thoughts. I don’t see this years team coming out of no where. 3 years ago I could see an improvement with team effort but still no scoring and many defensive lapses. At the end of their freshmen year Devlin and I believe Cronin made a big statement about how the team was ready for a big step forward. Last year they appeared energized by a couple of descent freshmen, with Cy leading the way. He had a great start but appeared to reach a ceiling after the first of the year. HE schedule and teams looking for him may have contributed.

But they looked better last year and appeared to be working very hard and with a lot of grit.
Teamplay was spotty and as we saw the end of the year was not rewarding for the team. This years freshmen have just blended so well with the existing talent to the point that I believe we can roll 4 lines all game. Look at Connor Sweeney, he plays with such grit and determination that he find a heck of a lot of ice both on the P

Think what you are saying here is there has been good development of current players and the addition of a player like Ryan Conmy, they are
'right on time' with where they are at success wise. Seems to be a natural step up from the bright spots of last season. Friday is a big 'tell' as to
where they are with tough competition coming at them.

 

[HockeyRef]

It is not a requirement to agree with me. (You are welcome to be wrong )

I really think it is recruiting that has changed. Just what changed inside that? New Coach? New approach? Better job of identifying or closing?

Thanks for the permission to disagree with you! Not that it matters but I can be a fairly argumentative person...I mean heck it was sadly a Senior superlative I earned...But here in the matters of recruiting etc I don't have the background so I tend to stick to what I know best lol.

Obviously what they are selling is resonating with recruits like Comny etc. And that has to be somewhat different than the former "we are building on our illustrious past be a part of it" (that said when I read CHC's interviews with recruits alot of them seem to mention that).

What underlying message do you (and others) think is being sent these days? Now as we speak the future plans of the 'Whitt renovations has to be a part of it and it sure doesn't hurt that the 'Cats are having early season success. But like you said that wasn't in place 3 years ago.

Whatever it it it appears to be playing out...at least for the moment...Thus would be a great topic to bring up in a presser....wait we have pressers?!?! Ha!

 

[Chuck Murray]

Enjoying the discussion on "what's different?" and I guess short of being at all the practices, and interacting with the players and staff regularly, it's tough to put a definitive finger on the pulse of things. I'm only slightly surprised that no one has guessed "MS7 sold his soul to Satan" as the reason. And with all due respect to Guiliano ... he's been here for awhile, isn't Stewart away as much if not more often on recruiting, and when all is said and done, neither Guiliano nor Stewart has recruited to a Borek level (yet), and Borek was no McCloskey.

Generally speaking, and I've said this before ... I truly believe Coach Souza underestimated the demands of what being a D-1 head coach for a Hockey East team with national ambitions entailed. He got to see Umile (and McCloskey) up close for four years as a player, but assuming he's not hanging out with McCloskey on his recruiting trips to Western Canada, he probably didn't truly appreciate the "above and beyond" aspect he needed/still needs from his recruiting team at the outset. When understudying with Coach Umile at the end, he saw a guy who had lost some of his fire from when he first knew him as a player 20 years earlier, and may have forgotten the better version of Umile, and fallen into the trap so many of us on here have in more recent times ... seeing the shell of Coach Umile, and forgetting this is a guy who won almost 600 D-1 games. And then thinking, "Is that all there is? I can do better, easily."

Nothing will get a head coach more focused than knowing his previous (unconditional?) support system is gone, and his new boss is letting him work into the final year of his deal without an extension. Say what you will about MS7, but he is a UNH alum, and he was also a player that was part of some of the truly magical UNH moments. Among all of his fellow alums, he is the lucky one that was given the opportunity to live the dream (nightmare if it goes wrong) of being a HC at his alma mater. It probably came too easy to a degree, and the last season plus, with Blue Skies retiring, last Fall's horrible losing streak, and with no extension forthcoming from the new AD, whatever remaining cushion(s) Souza had to enable his continued mediocre coaching results were gone. In short, it's been sink or swim for at least a year now for MS7, and he has decided that he does not want to sink. He is fighting for his coaching life, and is probably realizing a lot of the things he assumed at the start of his tenure were harder to accomplish than he thought at the outset.

One of the grave disservices that a certain HC working out of Foxboro over the last generation has done to New England sports fans/coaches is to churn out a series of trite phrases to shield themselves from having to do the full extent of their jobs, and let folks assume that's enough to be successful at coaching. When in reality, if you're being honest, successful coaching means being in charge of everything, all the time, and basically working to a point of exhaustion. Because everyone you are competing with is also a Type A highly competitive person, and when you take your foot off the pedal, someone else is going to hit the accelerator, and then if that repeats itself enough, you end up where MS7 was last season (and where Belichick has been since Tom Brady left). Being an HC for a nationally prominent D-1 program is no place for someone who is NOT a Type A control freak to "hope" to succeed. If I had to bet a fortune on the root cause, I would put $$ on all of this.

If any UNH players who read this board would like to discuss this further, in absolute confidence, and with my promise not to disclose anything without your permission, reach out to me via contact info in my USCHO profile. My "day job" involves maintaining and preserving confidences in very professional and legal settings, and it's something I've done successfully for 40 years now without any issues that have come back to impact any of my sources - on this stuff OR on USCHO stuff. I'm "open for business" so to say.

 

[HockeyRef]

Hey Chuck was waiting/hoping you'd chime in here on this. LOL your soul comment, I mean....with all the speculation running rampant regarding
this who'd be surprised if that really happened? Ha!

I agree 100% on your thoughts about MS7 coming to grips with the enormity of the situation. It's not like his former digs at Brown or UConn overly
prepared him given the results those programs saw. He has found some ground, tho, and I remember when he said at a FOH meeting that " you can
find a good hockey player right in your back yard" (see LeClerc, Cy and Gagne, Alex as examples). And he's reached beyond the confines of
Melrose bringing in the foreign players in Sardarian, etc. Agree about how you can't compare the results Borek had....yet. But I believe
that is changing.

The proof of all of this musing on the outside of this tiny bubble of a message board is who shows up next at UNH...as far as recruits go and
the quality of them. I'm not kidding myself that we are going to recruit 5 blue chippahs (I hate that phrase but, it fits) but this will be
a good sign if we bring in a few and some thing to watch for in the very near future. I was watching John Player last night on CHC's you tube page...he
looks like a decent player although outside of that I don't know anything else about him.

From what I can tell from my few short years (hey it's year 10) UNH lost valuable ground by not recognizing the recruiting landscape
had changed and are slowly but surely? pulling themselves out of that. Hence my point, this is not...your former coach's program anymore
and if you wanna survive you gotta grow into your own while taking what was good about that past (which in Souza's case, he has the
benefit of knowing what winning felt like and he wants more than anything to impart that feeling to his players. This season he's seeing
an almost full 'Whitt and that is energizing for the players which had not been seen in awhile.

Oh, and just a reminder there is a VERY BIG GAME coming up tomorrow! Can't wait to watch and see what the 'Cats can do
with the Black Bears in the not-so-friendly Alfond Arena. Like I said, not too invested in the results so much as the performance.
I think the 'Cats have a great shot at winning the game if they can keep their heads on straight...and stay out of the box (please,
no more 5 minute majors mk??)

 

[After the Whistle]

Hey Ref, thanks for trying to save my last post. Not sure what happened. Lost the end.
love the statement above, “not invested in the results as the performance”. That was clearly a big part of what I was trying to say. In watching these guys the past 3 years, I have noticed a big improvement in effort, focus, intensity and puck judgement that is finally translating into victories which builds confidence which builds……all that is good.

 

[d.gerry]

Hey Chuck was waiting/hoping you'd chime in here on this. LOL your soul comment, I mean....with all the speculation running rampant regarding
this who'd be surprised if that really happened? Ha!

I agree 100% on your thoughts about MS7 coming to grips with the enormity of the situation. It's not like his former digs at Brown or UConn overly
prepared him given the results those programs saw. He has found some ground, tho, and I remember when he said at a FOH meeting that " you can
find a good hockey player right in your back yard" (see LeClerc, Cy and Gagne, Alex as examples). And he's reached beyond the confines of
Melrose bringing in the foreign players in Sardarian, etc. Agree about how you can't compare the results Borek had....yet. But I believe
that is changing.

The proof of all of this musing on the outside of this tiny bubble of a message board is who shows up next at UNH...as far as recruits go and
the quality of them. I'm not kidding myself that we are going to recruit 5 blue chippahs (I hate that phrase but, it fits) but this will be
a good sign if we bring in a few and some thing to watch for in the very near future. I was watching John Player last night on CHC's you tube page...he
looks like a decent player although outside of that I don't know anything else about him.

From what I can tell from my few short years (hey it's year 10) UNH lost valuable ground by not recognizing the recruiting landscape
had changed and are slowly but surely? pulling themselves out of that. Hence my point, this is not...your former coach's program anymore
and if you wanna survive you gotta grow into your own while taking what was good about that past (which in Souza's case, he has the
benefit of knowing what winning felt like and he wants more than anything to impart that feeling to his players. This season he's seeing
an almost full 'Whitt and that is energizing for the players which had not been seen in awhile.

Oh, and just a reminder there is a VERY BIG GAME coming up tomorrow! Can't wait to watch and see what the 'Cats can do
with the Black Bears in the not-so-friendly Alfond Arena. Like I said, not too invested in the results so much as the performance.
I think the 'Cats have a great shot at winning the game if they can keep their heads on straight...and stay out of the box (please,
no more 5 minute majors mk??)

IMO the first 5 or 6 minutes of this game will set the stage. If UNH weathers the storm, cause I can't believe that Maine will not come out loaded for bear, I think they have a shot. If Maine comes out and gets an early goal or two, you can pretty much pack it in. I may be wrong, as this team has shown a willingness to play hard all 60 minutes, but my gut tells me coming from behind at Alfond will be a hill too tough to climb. Can't imagine the place won't be sold out with a load and hostile crowd.

 

[HockeyRef]

Ok UNH hockey enthusiasts, who gets the nod for the net tomorrow night? Am going with Muszelik...you?

 

[grooverider]

IMO the first 5 or 6 minutes of this game will set the stage. If UNH weathers the storm, cause I can't believe that Maine will not come out loaded for bear, I think they have a shot. If Maine comes out and gets an early goal or two, you can pretty much pack it in. I may be wrong, as this team has shown a willingness to play hard all 60 minutes, but my gut tells me coming from behind at Alfond will be a hill too tough to climb. Can't imagine the place won't be sold out with a load and hostile crowd.

It is sold out. Crowd will be pretty amped. I must say though for such a rivalry both fan bases are pretty respectful for the most part. I went to the Whitt last year and got some crap but nothing over the line. I will be there for 2 this year too. Cheers to a good game.

 

[Snively65]

Ok UNH hockey enthusiasts, who gets the nod for the net tomorrow night? Am going with Muszelik...you?

Gotta be Hellsten, if MS7 is serious about this game.