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UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

RockTheWhit said:
Bourque wasn't a star at UNH like Brickley was, which magnifies UNH's failure to land Connor. Best of luck to the younger Brickley as he represents his country at the U18 World Championships.
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They are distant cousins and he stated recently in an interview that he hardly has ever spoken to him and never about hockey advice
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

RockTheWhit said:
I read the same article, sorry if that wasn't clear in my post. It's a really good Q+A, and it answers a number of the same questions that have been brought up on this thread.
http://mckeenshockey.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1064627
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Somehow I don't think this will dissuade the "Umile sucks because he did'nt land Andy's brother/son/nephew ooops I mean 2nd cousin" talk.
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

Brickley: Playing freshman year at Belmont Hill and then going to the 16 Festival. Out of 16 Festival, I was contacted by a couple teams, and then going into my sophomore year at Belmont Hill. So, I was talking to the Boston schools. In my running, it was mainly between (pauses), I talked to Harvard a lot, BU, and Vermont, and also UNH. For me, Vermont was the team that contacted me first. They were very open about what they wanted from me, and when they wanted me, and how much they wanted me. So, they were the team that offered me the first, and we put it on hold. It was really early, because my parents and I weren't really sure what I wanted to do. So, I went to my sophomore season, and halfway through the sophomore season, I decided Vermont would be the best spot. The coaches were great to me, and they know what kind of player I am. I feel it was the best fit for me.
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No violations in there either...sophomore year Vermont was the first school to contact him than several others...
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

PSW said:
Vermont contacted him first…..I wonder how many players end up with the team who contacts them first…..my guess many…
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Just like real estate, the first offer is the one to go with

These kids that say they were contacted first by a school should not be taken literaly. Most have advisors etc who have reached out to the schools or have seen them play and or were contacted by their coaches.

All the kids say something similar to that.
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

Exactly

Kid was very much into strong academics as well and loved the UVM program
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

All other things being equal said:
Not necessarily. Kevin Sneddon is a heck of a coach and UVM is putting more talent into the NHL these days than UNH is.

And the crowds at the UVM home games are presumably better from a players perspective than the crowds at the UNH games. For instance, if UVM had hosted the QF playoff series the Gutt would have been packed out compared to a 1/4 full Whittemore Center that both teams played in front of in March. That was pathetic.

Would you rather play in front of a full house or a 1/4 full house in your home barn if you worked hard all season to earn home ice in the HE playoffs?

UVM is winning some recruiting battles for good reasons.
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Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

Nicely put CHC..

speaking of odd. Casey Thrush is currently the highest ranked NHL prospect coming in.. almost 50 slots ahead of G. Downing.. Yet, both being '92's- Thrush(a month younger) is projected to arrive 2yrs after Downing.

just found this on incoming Eric Knodel.. he mentions Connor Brickley as well.
http://mckeenshockey.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1019951

Sorkin also mentions Connor Brickley for the world Jr's- apprently tehy teamed up on the same line, as mentioend in Brickley's q&a.

http://mckeenshockey.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1028338
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

Clark-Hislop-Cox said:
We fans really don't have any idea what Coach Umile and his staff do during the long recruiting process. We don't know who their priorities are, which recruits they speak with, which ones they invite to visit, etc. Yet, there is no lack of criticism for what they are suspected of doing. They get slammed for going after "blue chip" players who they supposedly have no hope of landing. OK, if that's true, then they never should have tried to recruit JvR. By the same logic, not aggressively pursuing Connor Brickley was the correct thing to do since he never would have come to UNH anyway. Coaches Umile, Borek and Lassonde are d*mned if they do and d*mned if they don't - which is exactly the point. A few fans simply wish that they were no longer employed by UNH - which makes for predictable, noninformative posts.
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Your missing the point. The critism is for going after guys there is no Wey they will get and not understanding when they should move on. Further it is not getting guys they should in that process because they are focused on the wrong guys until it is too late.
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

Regarding recruiting ability, Mc Closkey did not to deal with the era of early commitments……players committing at 15 years …… The early commitment era really got started to gain momentum around 2004, when James Marcou committed to UMass at 15 years old. At that point I think he was the youngest player to commit to a college program. With early commitments recruiters, have to look at 13-14 years players to be able to lock them in at 15 -16. Difficult to make a determination where they will be at 19. Also you talking to very young kids/parents……Mc Closkey didn’t have to deal with that. I remember Borek on the one of the radio shows say it is difficult for all recruiters getting your heads around evaluating very young players.
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

Clark-Hislop-Cox said:
Maybe you are missing the point. What insider, factual information do you have to illustrate your point? Since you obliquely referred to (Patrick) Wey, what information do you have that UNH pursued him for too long when they should have known he was going to BC? In fact, the following interview with Patrick Wey in April 2009 says that:
(1) BC was very surprised when he commited to them
(2) The early departure of Nick Petrecki (thereby giving Wey more opportunity for icetime) was a major factor in his decision and
(3) Wey waited until the last minute to make a decision and left a number of teams in the lurch.
This sounds like another example of an individual making an idiosyncratic and unpredictable decision.

http://bostoncollege.scout.com/2/855943.html

P.S. Did you notice that neither Patrick Wey, nor any other BC freshman, made the Inside College Hockey Freshman All-America Team?
http://www.insidecollegehockey.com/7Archives/Features/0910/inchfroshaa_2010.htm
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My argument is at some point you ask the kid to make a decision, deadlines can actually be a good thing. If he won’t you look elsewhere. If you happen to still have money when the kid makes the decision great. There is a reason Wey waited, he probably really wanted to go to BC. That is fine, but UNH needs to not be a comfortable back up plan. On the Wey situation Watcher made the call he would end up at BC a long time (month and a half plus as I remember) before the season was over and Petrecki left early. There were still other options out there but UNH appeared to be waiting on Wey and those options went elsewhere.

What I see from UNH is too many times when they hang on too long and then all they can get is another grinder. It is great to shoot for the A list kids but I think UNH was built in the late 90's on the really good B list kids. Right now we get many C's at the last minute. Some of that is not the UNH staffs fault (Bourque, etc.) but the number that now have not got in (Reid, etc.) I do place some responsibility with the coaches. Maybe there are no signs there could be an admissions issue but it is clearly something the staff needs to look at a new way because it has become a repeat problem.

I could be very wrong in the why, as recruiting isn't something coaches can’t really talk about.

What I know I am not wrong about is the talent on the ice, it has significantly dropped off. I am only offering the observations that I can glean from the information that is available. I am not anti-Umile, but I am very concerned about the current trend (pointing down) and sticking your head in the sand about a problem is not a solution.

To me you seem happy to whistle past the grave yard.
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

Wow.

I wish in my life and at my business I had the foresight to only pursue those opportunities that I know for absolute 100% certain that I will be successful on and to leave all the other ones behind and not bother with them.

Where can I hire some of you guys will all this brilliant foresight ?
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

Db4gb said:
Wow.

I wish in my life and at my business I had the foresight to only pursue those opportunities that I know for absolute 100% certain that I will be successful on and to leave all the other ones behind and not bother with them.

Where can I hire some of you guys will all this brilliant foresight ?
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Rather than foresight, how about hindsight and employee track record in recruiting at a pre-eminent NCAA program?

2000-01 13 23 0 Borek, Scott
1999-00 18 16 2 Borek, Scott
1998-99 11 23 4 Borek, Scott
1997-98 15 18 4 Borek, Scott
1996-97 19 14 5 Borek, Scott
1995-96 30 8 2 Jackson, Jeff
1994-95 23 12 6 Jackson, Jeff
1993-94 31 10 4 Jackson, Jeff NCAA CHAMPS
1992-93 32 8 5 Jackson, Jeff NCAA RUNNER UP
1991-92 30 9 4 Jackson, Jeff NCAA CHAMPS
1990-91 36 5 4 Jackson, Jeff
1989-90 33 10 3 Anzalone, Frank
1988-89 29 11 5 Anzalone, Frank
1987-88 33 7 6 Anzalone, Frank NCAA CHAMPS
1986-87 22 16 2 Anzalone, Frank
1985-86 24 18 1 Anzalone, Frank
1984-85 27 16 1 Anzalone, Frank
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

Db4gb said:
Wow.

I wish in my life and at my business I had the foresight to only pursue those opportunities that I know for absolute 100% certain that I will be successful on and to leave all the other ones behind and not bother with them.

Where can I hire some of you guys will all this brilliant foresight ?
Click to expand...

There are only two things in life with 100% certainty - you were born and you will die. All the rest is risk management.

I get the feeling at times UNH is hanging onto the 5% or far less chance. That is not good risk management.

My counter your 100% extreme would be planning your future around winning the lottery.
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

NCAA watcher said:
Rather than foresight, how about hindsight and employee track record in recruiting at a pre-eminent NCAA program?

2000-01 13 23 0 Borek, Scott
1999-00 18 16 2 Borek, Scott
1998-99 11 23 4 Borek, Scott
1997-98 15 18 4 Borek, Scott
1996-97 19 14 5 Borek, Scott
1995-96 30 8 2 Jackson, Jeff
1994-95 23 12 6 Jackson, Jeff
1993-94 31 10 4 Jackson, Jeff NCAA CHAMPS
1992-93 32 8 5 Jackson, Jeff NCAA RUNNER UP
1991-92 30 9 4 Jackson, Jeff NCAA CHAMPS
1990-91 36 5 4 Jackson, Jeff
1989-90 33 10 3 Anzalone, Frank
1988-89 29 11 5 Anzalone, Frank
1987-88 33 7 6 Anzalone, Frank NCAA CHAMPS
1986-87 22 16 2 Anzalone, Frank
1985-86 24 18 1 Anzalone, Frank
1984-85 27 16 1 Anzalone, Frank
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How has the program done since Borek left.....:D ....let's also blame him for the last 10 years he hasn't been there....
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

Clark-Hislop-Cox said:
Actually, I don't think a Division 1 hockey team who:
(1) Consistently makes the NCAA tournament,
(2) Continues to attract very talented players like JvR, Kessel, Burke, Vecchione, etc.
(3) Successfully recruits diamonds in the rough like Butler, Sislo, Moses, Henrion etc.
can be characterized as dead and buried.
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(1) - OK
(2) - OK but they used to land more for whatever reason
(3) - I am not sure any other than Butler are true diamonds in the rough like for example Saviano.

Clark-Hislop-Cox said:
Enjoying UNH hockey is a whole lot more fun than perpetually wringing my hands, bitterly sniping at the coaches, or demeaning exceptional teenage recruits because scouts don't think they are "A" players. Sometimes I whistle, sometimes I swear, but mostly I appreciate knowing that every winter and early spring, UNH will be in the hunt for the National Championship.
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I still enjoy UNH hockey.

Where I disagree is I don't see them in the hunt every spring anymore. Now the program seems to struggle to meet #1.

For next year I am more worried than I was at this time last year (well maybe May last year). Where are the goals going to come from, Butler's growth was what "saved" this year. I look at the Freshman coming in and I don't know where the offense is going to come from. I don't recall every being this concerned about that in the past (when McCloskey was recruiting).
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

Clark-Hislop-Cox said:
Translation for those who don't have an Asperger's-like fixation with numbers:

One fan wants the head of Coach Borek (former head coach at Lake Superior State University) served up on a platter.
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Sorry that facts bother you or otherwise intrude on your reality. Here's another reality - Apart from Michigan's trio, the UNH coaching staff has been the only staff to stay the same since 2003. During that time, in your view, has UNH (1) progressed, (2) stayed the same, or (3) regressed?

Also, succesful coaches all have a "Coaching Tree" where they bring in young interns/volunteer assistants, and slowly incorporate them. Walsh, for example, has Greg Cronin, Bruce Crowder, Jay Leach, Red Gendron, etc. York has Paluch, Rolston while at BC. UNH has had no young former players as Volunteer assistants, other than Chris Bragnalo, who was administrative.

In both areas, the coaching staff is insular, having had a single perspective for the past 7 years, with no outside energy or voices. That is HIGHLY UNIQUE apart from Michigan, which I think we both can agree is different.


Snarkiness aside, I suspect our differences depend upon expectations. If you are happy with a program that is 10-16th in the country, but not likely to make the Final Four, then there's no need for "change."

If, however, you look at the thread on fan apathy, the drop in income to the program from lost season ticket holders, and a drop from being a FF candiate, then perhaps you can see an argument for changing something up.

My natural question then is how is Umile at recruiting, and the answer seems to be Assistant dependent. Look at the players Umile inherited during the two Kullen years before Umile, that he rode to the 92 NCAA appearance:

Adam Hayes
Scott Morrow
Steve Morrow
Frank Messina
Mark McGinn
Joe Flanagan
Savo Mitrovic
Domenic Amodeo (*)
----------------
Pat Szturm
Chris Thayer
Matt Trenovich
Reil Bellegarde
Bill Lacouture
Bruce MacDonald
Pat Morrison
Adrien Plavsic
David MacIntyre
Kevin Dean
Chris Winnes

The look at who he added in the 1989-92 period:

Trent Cavicchi
Scott Robison
Erik Fitzgerald
Brian Putnam
Mike McCready
Sean Perry
Steve Pleau
Bryan Muir
Tom O'Brien
Mike Sullivan
----------
Cory Cash
Pat Norton
Nick Poole
Jeff Lenz
Eric Royal
Kent Schmidtke
Eric Flinton
Ted Russell
------------------
Mike Guilbert
Rob Chebator
Jeff Levy
Rob Donovan
Scott Malone
Glenn Stewart
Jason Dexter
------------------
Greg Blow
Jeff St.Laurent
Bret Abel
Greg Klym
Jesse Cooper
Kevin Thomson
Jim McGrath


My take away is that Umile inherited a very talented class, but then brought in lower talent, a lot from his blue collar Mass guys (Thomson, Chebator, Sullivan).

Suddenly, in 1992, a young assistant is brought in, and what do we have?

Erik Johnson
Joey Moran
Tim Murray
Brian Larochelle
Tom Nolan
Dean Woodman
Eric Boguniecki
-------------------
Dylan Dellezay
Trevor Amundrud
Mark Mowers
Erik Nickulas
Pat Bottino
Rob Gagnon
---------------
Sean Matile
Ryan Bencurek
Chad Onufrechuk
Christian Bragnalo
Jason Krog
Derek Bekar
Brad Erbsland
Steve O'Brien

So, i come to the conclusion that Umile, by himself, is not that good a recruiter, with a preference for complementary hard workers from Mass burbs. The talent was brought in by others.

So, there is a need for a VERY GOOD recruiter. I'll leave it to you to answer whether we have that.
 
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Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

Clark-Hislop-Cox said:
Enjoying UNH hockey is a whole lot more fun than perpetually wringing my hands, bitterly sniping...
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Then please just enjoy it AND stop bitterly sniping at anyone and/or any post of the opinion that there is room for improvement. We get it, you think everything is perfect and there is no room for opinions or criticism...

Some of us hope/expect that UNH can/should get back to being the consistent top-five threat that they were just a handful of seasons ago - nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately, if theyre going to do so theyre going to have to break away from what they've done the past couple of seasons because the results are not the same. Times/Players are constantly changing. Coaching philosphies need to change as well...

I can tell you as a college recruiter myself (albeit a different sport and gender) - one things kids desperately want, especially when being recruited, is to find a recruiter that they feel they can relate to. Youre not always going to get that feeling from a staff full of middle aged men - I am all for Umile staying as long as he wants, but in my opinion the staff NEEDS a young assistant coach, period.
 
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