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UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

I would guess that a guy like Walters would only leave Minnesota for Major Juniors. If he stays in the NCAA, he probably has a bunch of offers from much better schools than UNH. He appears to be a prototypical BU or BC-type player. .


You are a tool, based on your comments no player should choose to go to UNH due to their lack of a national championship banner. We should never have got JVR to commit because we aren't BC or BU. Absolute bull****, UNH is a great hockey school, consistently battling for the top spot in Hockey East and is in the NCAA's every year in recent history.
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

You would think so onion man - but you would apparently be incorrect...

You've probably already heard that Minnesota recruit Ryan Walters met with Gopher coaching staff this weekend, and after being told that the coaches wanted him to play another year of junior hockey, Walters decommitted from the Gophers.

It will certainly be interesting to see where Walters lands. Portland owns his WHL rights, but it sounds like Walters will try to find another college to play for. He's talented enough that somebody will be willing to take a chance on him. Hopefully it works out better for both parties than it did with the Gophers.

http://www.westerncollegehockeyblog.com/2010/4/20/1430969/walters-decommits#comments
 
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Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

You are a tool, based on your comments no player should choose to go to UNH due to their lack of a national championship banner. We should never have got JVR to commit because we aren't BC or BU. Absolute bull****, UNH is a great hockey school, consistently battling for the top spot in Hockey East and is in the NCAA's every year in recent history.

This isn't a shot at UNH you hyper sensitive jack-bag. Its amazing how thin skinned you people are. All Im saying is this kid isn't coming to New England to go to UNH just like he's not coming here to go to Brown. If he comes east, its to one of the Boston schools and get exposure for the NHL. Those schools get these kids hand over fist. UNH gets one in ten years.
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

This isn't a shot at UNH you hyper sensitive jack-bag. Its amazing how thin skinned you people are. All Im saying is this kid isn't coming to New England to go to UNH just like he's not coming here to go to Brown. If he comes east, its to one of the Boston schools and get exposure for the NHL. Those schools get these kids hand over fist. UNH gets one in ten years.

There is a chance he could land at UNH. There is NO chance he will end up at Brown. Tool.
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

There is a chance he could land at UNH. There is NO chance he will end up at Brown. Tool.

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Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

UNH is a great hockey school, consistently battling for the top spot in Hockey East and is in the NCAA's every year in recent history.

I'm convinced! Of course, there are a lot more things that other schools have to offer (although to be fair, UNH does have more to offer than you're listing as well). There aren't tons of guys in the NHL from UNH lately. Coaching obviously matters. We all know the differing opinions on Umile.

I'm not sure how big of a deal this kid is... But truthfully, while there is a chance he could go to UNH, there's a chance he could go to Merrimack too. And as mentioned, a guy coming East is probably not choosing UNH if he has offers from a BC or BU.

Luckily for UNH, BC likely isn't seeing any early departures and that leaves them with likely no scholarship money and 8 defensemen already. Macleod is going to have trouble breaking the lineup with the emergence of Alber.
 
Sense of urgency

Sense of urgency

The overarching theme of the current UNH threads is trying to figure out what needs to happen to improve the team's recent record of making it to the NCAA Elite Eight and getting back to the Frozen Four and Championship game. All the loyal UNH fans are searching for the spark which will improve the team's fortune (e.g., better recruits, different coach(es), better atmosphere at the Whit, etc.). I hope that we can continue to have a lively discussion about whether the glass is half full or half empty and what it might take to fill up the glass. The alternative - UNH fans stop caring about the glass - would suck.

That last "alternative" is already in the process of becoming a reality. I'm personally aware of at least a dozen long-time UNH fans who are at various stages of losing interest in the program. Some have non-renewed season tickets, and others are very close to doing the same. Based on observations around The Whitt this past season, it doesn't appear they're isolated cases.

Frankly ... one of the driving reasons why I've begun posting more actively on these boards (after a long time away in read-only status) is that seeing these negative trends/developments has given me a clear sense of alarm and urgency. Referring back to the "Open Letter" thread ... those of us who've been around the program long enough have seen this all happen before, back in the mid-'80's. And having been there, I don't want to see it happen again.

We didn't have the Internet back then, and it was a very different world for sure, but there are parallels, and some of them are striking. Take a look-see at Charlie Holt's year-by-year UNH coaching record - paying particularly close attention to the trends in the early '80's - and see where it all went:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?encode=TRUE&pid=43052

And for everyone who points out (including me) that Coach Umile has only recorded a single losing season at UNH ... guess what? So did Coach Holt, until the inaugural season of Hockey East ('84/'85). After that ... :eek: :(

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it ... :(
 
Re: Sense of urgency

Re: Sense of urgency

While it was cool to watch the teams that I remember from the 70's, I was astonished to see games from the last years at Snively with all the empty seats.

Hmm - I was at UNH for Snivley's last years - my senior year was the year in Manchester. As I recall, other then possibly some playoff games over spring break there were few if any empty seats. These were always great crowds that waited outside for hours before the doors were open. I have such great memories of all these games and the fans were terrific - even up in Manchester, we would pack that building with kids up from Durham. Jeez, for Maine games we would have to wait in line at the AD just to get our tickets and then again at Snively on game night to get the best seats in the building.

It does sadden me to hear about some of the recent developments, if true - the hockey games were such a fun part of my college experience.
 
Re: Sense of urgency

Re: Sense of urgency

Hmm - I was at UNH for Snivley's last years - my senior year was the year in Manchester. As I recall, other then possibly some playoff games over spring break there were few if any empty seats. These were always great crowds that waited outside for hours before the doors were open. I have such great memories of all these games and the fans were terrific - even up in Manchester, we would pack that building with kids up from Durham. Jeez, for Maine games we would have to wait in line at the AD just to get our tickets and then again at Snively on game night to get the best seats in the building.

It does sadden me to hear about some of the recent developments, if true - the hockey games were such a fun part of my college experience.

It is strange to me too. I remember for big name teams (Maine and BU at the time) getting to the field house around 5:00 am and sitting on the floor studying to be sure to get a ticket. I got there that early and there were always at least 100 (probably more like 200+) students in front of me.
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

Well. I just skipped class for Friday games so I could get in line early. Always had a front row seat behind the UNH bench.
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

Well. I just skipped class for Friday games so I could get in line early. Always had a front row seat behind the UNH bench.

Why would you have a Friday afternoon class? That is poor planning on your part. :p ;) :D
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

Come to think of it you're right. That was poor planning. I was still young and naive then. ;)
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

I just rewatched the DVD I obtained from zoofer entitled "UNH Hockey Highlights 1974-1993." It contains clips of NHPTV Channel 11's coverage of games throughout those years. The main reason I wanted this DVD was because it includes the segment from the 1974 UNH-RPI ECAC quarterfinal game in which the C-H-C line scored three goals in a minute and 45 seconds while playing 3-on-3.

Most of the DVD includes brief snippits of UNH action from games at Snively Arena and, indeed, the old barn was packed with fans. The clips which show action from the middle to late 1970's vividly show the old chainlink fence behind each goal with fans packed 2-3 deep across the entire span. Some of the highlights of the teams from the early 1990's show the endzones with the glass and a single row of standing fans in addition to packed bleachers. There is one highlight from a game with Amodeo and Morrow (I'm guessing from the 91-92 season) in which several rows of bleachers in one section near the end of the arena are empty. Maybe it was a game during student break or maybe the seats were reserved for visiting fans who didn't show. For all the other highlights from the 1990's at Snively, the place looks packed with fans.

Some will remember that Channel 11 also covered an occasional away game. For example, the DVD includes highlights from games at UVM and Merrimack. There are a couple of cuts showing the team from the early 1990's playing at Merrimack with a fair number of empty seats.

It's a real treat to watch all of the former players. In general, most of the highlights are of guys from those memorable teams of the 1970's (e.g., C-H-C, Cap Raeder, Bob Miller, Tim Burke, Rod Langway, Ralph Cox, John Fontas, Bobby Gould, etc) as well as a bunch of highlights from those teams in the early 1990's. There are also a few clips of Andy Brickley from the early 1980's.

The coverage by the NHPTV announcers and crew was really top-notch. Snively Arena, and many of those teams that played there, were pretty special.
 
Re: UNH commitments/recruits for 2010 and beyond

I just rewatched the DVD I obtained from zoofer entitled "UNH Hockey Highlights 1974-1993." It contains clips of NHPTV Channel 11's coverage of games throughout those years. The main reason I wanted this DVD was because it includes the segment from the 1974 UNH-RPI ECAC quarterfinal game in which the C-H-C line scored three goals in a minute and 45 seconds while playing 3-on-3.

Most of the DVD includes brief snippits of UNH action from games at Snively Arena and, indeed, the old barn was packed with fans. The clips which show action from the middle to late 1970's vividly show the old chainlink fence behind each goal with fans packed 2-3 deep across the entire span. Some of the highlights of the teams from the early 1990's show the endzones with the glass and a single row of standing fans in addition to packed bleachers. There is one highlight from a game with Amodeo and Morrow (I'm guessing from the 91-92 season) in which several rows of bleachers in one section near the end of the arena are empty. Maybe it was a game during student break or maybe the seats were reserved for visiting fans who didn't show. For all the other highlights from the 1990's at Snively, the place looks packed with fans.

Some will remember that Channel 11 also covered an occasional away game. For example, the DVD includes highlights from games at UVM and Merrimack. There are a couple of cuts showing the team from the early 1990's playing at Merrimack with a fair number of empty seats.

It's a real treat to watch all of the former players. In general, most of the highlights are of guys from those memorable teams of the 1970's (e.g., C-H-C, Cap Raeder, Bob Miller, Tim Burke, Rod Langway, Ralph Cox, John Fontas, Bobby Gould, etc) as well as a bunch of highlights from those teams in the early 1990's. There are also a few clips of Andy Brickley from the early 1980's.

The coverage by the NHPTV announcers and crew was really top-notch. Snively Arena, and many of those teams that played there, were pretty special.

You are very lucky to have that DVD!
 
Re: Sense of urgency

Re: Sense of urgency

That last "alternative" is already in the process of becoming a reality. I'm personally aware of at least a dozen long-time UNH fans who are at various stages of losing interest in the program. Some have non-renewed season tickets, and others are very close to doing the same. Based on observations around The Whitt this past season, it doesn't appear they're isolated cases.

Frankly ... one of the driving reasons why I've begun posting more actively on these boards (after a long time away in read-only status) is that seeing these negative trends/developments has given me a clear sense of alarm and urgency. Referring back to the "Open Letter" thread ... those of us who've been around the program long enough have seen this all happen before, back in the mid-'80's. And having been there, I don't want to see it happen again.

We didn't have the Internet back then, and it was a very different world for sure, but there are parallels, and some of them are striking. Take a look-see at Charlie Holt's year-by-year UNH coaching record - paying particularly close attention to the trends in the early '80's - and see where it all went:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?encode=TRUE&pid=43052

And for everyone who points out (including me) that Coach Umile has only recorded a single losing season at UNH ... guess what? So did Coach Holt, until the inaugural season of Hockey East ('84/'85). After that ... :eek: :(

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it ... :(

Chuck, I'm not sure you can describe these folks as "long time fans" of the program if they are bailing because, what, they didn't win 20 games this year? Or with a pretty average team came within one game of the FF for the second year in a row? To me a fan (short for fanatic) is one who follows a team through thick AND thin. I've been a Red Sox fan all my life. My formative years were spent watching Don Buddin, et al slog through a 152 game schedule with no chance of playing .500 ball. I like baseball, the Sox are my home team, so I watch, root and go. Same with the Wildcats. I've been a big fan since the first time I set foot in Snively 40 years ago this coming December. Even during the very lean years (more on that below) my wife and I dragged our toddler daughter (now 24) to games at Snively and beyond. I'll admit it was hard to watch the Wildcats in those years, they were badly outclassed not only by BU and BC, but were mincemeat for the WCHA powers. They were probably the worst team in college hockey back then. But I hung in there. Do I dare say that, with the opening of the Whit, my faith was rewarded? I really don't have much use for people who are bailing now. I'd like them to stay, but if they are not being rewarded because their team isn't living up to the lofty expectations that they and others have set for them, so be it.

Now, onto your comparison of the latter Holt years and now. I agree, there are similarities. Back then, Charlie was not doing much recruiting, leaving most of it up to Bob Kullen. Bob had very big shoes to fill when he took over for Bob Norton and Dave O'Connor, both of whom had enormous success recruiting highly talented kids from Eastern Mass. and Ontario. Of course, things were a lot more informal back then, word of mouth, relationships with a few coaches would go a long way in helping UNH. The best story I ever heard was how Cap Raeder was recruited. Charlie saw that Cap had been named All-Scholastic by both the Globe and Herald in his senior year. Charlie told Norton to go down and see him and his parents, see if he would be interested in UNH. All this six months before he would be a freshman! The pinnacle of their recruiting was never more evident than 1977 when there were eight guys (Ralph Cox and Tim Burke were not among them) on the team who played in the NHL, this in an era when most NHL lifers still looked down their nose at college players.

Bob Kullen was a great guy. Charlie loved him a lot, especially since he had played hockey for his good friend Sid Watson at Bowdoin. And in Bob's first few years as an assistant, he did bring in a few good guys - Steve Leach, Peter Douris, James Richmond, these guys had talent, a lot of it. But the supporting cast wasn't much. The problem was that the competition for recruits had gotten a lot more fierce and, frankly, Charlie and Bob were not up to these new challenges. Some of the kids they brought in after, say 1975, would have had a hard time playing D2 hockey, never mind D1. Add in the interlocking schedule with the WCHA and it was all down hill. Things really did not start to turn around until some new assistants were hired - Wayne Wilson (now RIT coach) for one year, Sean Coady and, of course, Umile. The class of '92 (Morrows, Flanagan, Mitrovic, Amodeo etc.) came a long way in four years and basically rejuvenated the program.

The similarities today are there. We are no longer getting completely hosed in the recruiting wars by almost all of college hockey like we were 35 years ago, but we are definitely losing the battles with the top echelon of college hockey. I think the coaches do a pretty good job in making the team competitive every year and the games (at least to me) are still exciting. I do agree that every organization has to reassess itself periodically and I would like to think that the hockey program, in conjunction with the AD, has been doing that. I can't imagine that they don't recognize that things have stagnated. I'd be very much surprised if either of the assistants were shown the door, but perhaps a retooling of both, along with the recruiting philosophy is in order.
 
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Sense of urgency

Sense of urgency

Chuck, I'm not sure you can describe these folks as "long time fans" of the program if they are bailing because, what, they didn't win 20 games this year? Or with a pretty average team came within one game of the FF for the second year in a row? To me a fan (short for fanatic) is one who follows a team through thick AND thin. I've been a Red Sox fan all my life. My formative years were spent watching Don Buddin, et al slog through a 152 game schedule with no chance of playing .500 ball. I like baseball, the Sox are my home team, so I watch, root and go. Same with the Wildcats. I've been a big fan since the first time I set foot in Snively 40 years ago this coming December. Even during the very lean years (more on that below) my wife and I dragged our toddler daughter (now 24) to games at Snively and beyond. I'll admit it was hard to watch the Wildcats in those years, they were badly outclassed not only by BU and BC, but were mincemeat for the WCHA powers. They were probably the worst team in college hockey back then. But I hung in there. Do I dare say that, with the opening of the Whit, my faith was rewarded? I really don't have much use for people who are bailing now. I'd like them to stay, but if they are not being rewarded because their team isn't living up to the lofty expectations that they and others have set for them, so be it.

Greg, I hear you ... but everyone has their own standards of what a "fan" is, and to what limits they will go before they break. Personally, I'm nutso and still follow all the teams I adopted when I was a kid. I basically quit baseball when they moved my team to DC. People ask me, "Why not pick another team?" and I can't even fathom it. I've virtually gone down to Davy Jones' locker with that team. But that's me. And I don't think anyone - you, me or anyone - can set our personal standards of being a "fan" for someone else.

For what it's worth, one of the folks I'm referring to as being disaffected has had season tickets at least a decade back into the Snively era, so I figure he's been on board for 25+ seasons, and experienced the end of the Coach Holt era as well. He simply does not like the entire Coach Umile aura around the team. We don't agree on everything, but we do agree on some things (typical). He wears his heart on his sleeve about this stuff, and is a VERY knowledgeable guy. He still pays for his season tickets, but has vowed not to step back into the building until Coach Umile has been replaced.

Now maybe that's an extreme example, but putting that aside ... how can we consider him someone who's not a long time fan, and accuse him of "bailing"? He's still financially supporting the program (I can vouch for that, since he sells me his tickets sometimes, and he's not been there the other times I've stopped by to visit him). He used to be a regular visitor and contributor to these boards. He's now got more free time to do ALL of this stuff than he's had in the past ... but I think Coach Umile has "broken" him. :( :(

I'm not saying it's right ... I'm not saying it's wrong ... but I can sympathize because not every living, breathing long-time UNH fan should be expected to watch their program slam its head into the same brick wall every Spring, and keep coming back for more with the same enthusiasm as always. Maybe you can ... myself, hey I've been tested, but like I said before, I consider myself nutso about my teams everywhere, so I keep coming back for more. That doesn't make me a better fan. It probably makes me "certifiable" :) :D :p

The similarities today are there. We are no longer getting completely hosed in the recruiting wars by almost all of college hockey like we were 35 years ago, but we are definitely losing the battles with the top echelon of college hockey. I think the coaches do a pretty good job in making the team competitive every year and the games (at least to me) are still exciting. I do agree that every organization has to reassess itself periodically and I would like to think that the hockey program, in conjunction with the AD, has been doing that. I can't imagine that they don't recognize that things have stagnated. I'd be very much surprised if either of the assistants were shown the door, but perhaps a retooling of both, along with the recruiting philosophy is in order.

I think we are frighteningly in agreement on most of the big picture issues, Greg. That should probably concern you. A lot. Seek help. Immediately. ;)
 
Re: Sense of urgency

Re: Sense of urgency

I'm not saying it's right ... I'm not saying it's wrong ... but I can sympathize because not every living, breathing long-time UNH fan should be expected to watch their program slam its head into the same brick wall every Spring, and keep coming back for more with the same enthusiasm as always. Maybe you can ... myself, hey I've been tested, but like I said before, I consider myself nutso about my teams everywhere, so I keep coming back for more. That doesn't make me a better fan. It probably makes me "certifiable" :) :D :p

I think we are frighteningly in agreement on most of the big picture issues, Greg. That should probably concern you. A lot. Seek help. Immediately. ;)

I happen to have fewer years of "experience" (my passion only goes back to the early 90's but my memory of games goes to the late 70's as a kid) however; I am no longer "all in with UNH hockey".

See the last couple years I have been more realistic about this team, the WALL has not surprised me so I don't slam into it. (Last hard hit was in 08 on Olympic ice against a team they should have been able to beat and even led early.) Instead I am now pleasantly surprised by 2 straight years winning a game in the NCAAs as the lower seed, heck this year I was surprised they actually got to the NCAAs. I was in Albany but the game against RIT was more of a moment of "well here is where the wheels come off" than a painful result.

That last paragraph is probably why there are so many STH that are long time fans sitting on their hands. They are just waiting for the other shoe to drop. The program has reached a level of expectation both for the good and the bad. The buzz around the program is gone because most of us in life realize a pattern; we all wish for UNH & Umile to get over the top so we come back but we expect the crash at the end of the year and hence don’t emotionally invest anymore. Right there is probably the best argument for some sort of new blood to recharge the excitement.
 
Re: Sense of urgency

Re: Sense of urgency

For what it's worth, one of the folks I'm referring to as being disaffected has had season tickets at least a decade back into the Snively era, so I figure he's been on board for 25+ seasons, and experienced the end of the Coach Holt era as well. He simply does not like the entire Coach Umile aura around the team. We don't agree on everything, but we do agree on some things (typical). He wears his heart on his sleeve about this stuff, and is a VERY knowledgeable guy. He still pays for his season tickets, but has vowed not to step back into the building until Coach Umile has been replaced.

Now maybe that's an extreme example, but putting that aside ... how can we consider him someone who's not a long time fan, and accuse him of "bailing"? He's still financially supporting the program (I can vouch for that, since he sells me his tickets sometimes, and he's not been there the other times I've stopped by to visit him). He used to be a regular visitor and contributor to these boards. He's now got more free time to do ALL of this stuff than he's had in the past ... but I think Coach Umile has "broken" him.

I think we are frighteningly in agreement on most of the big picture issues, Greg. That should probably concern you. A lot. Seek help. Immediately. ;)

Chuck, just to be sure, I looked up the definition of the word "aura" - a distinctive and pervasive quality or character - according to Webster's on-line dictionary. Well I suppose there is an aura around Umile, after all he has been the coach for 20 years and has been able to put his stamp on the program. Now your friend may say that the "stamp" is his record of failing to win the big one. But really, is that how a real "fan" should measure the coach or the program. I suppose if he was a fan of, say, Harvard back in the day, he would have had no use for Bill Cleary until he "won it all" in 1979. And, of course, he would have been all over Shawn Walsh because, you know, he "won."

If UNH had stunk for the last 20 years, had continually finished at or near the bottom of Hockey East, had not produced any players of note, and had not put on a good show for the fans, I could see his point. I'd probably bail as well. But Umile has done almost the exact opposite. Okay, no NCAA championship, but the man has done just about everything else you can do in college hockey - league championships, a multitude of NCAA appearances, four trips to the FF, a boatload of All-Americans (do you know that UNH has had at least one first or second team All-American every year but one (2009) in the last 14 seasons). And most importantly he does all this with little stain on the program and a phenomenal graduation rate.

I have a friend who has been going to UNH games for 35 years or more. A couple of years ago my wife and I were walking into the Whit for a game while he was walking away. He told us, with a smirk on his face, that he was never going to watch another UNH game until Umile left. You know what? His self-imposed boycott lasted all of a week. I don't know your friend (who knows, it might be the same guy) but to say that you are not going to step inside the Whittemore Center until Umile is gone, or that Umile has "broken me," is laughable. The guy has to get a life.

I think we agree, Chuck, because we care. BTW, we went to many an Expo game back in the day (although, sadly, never at Parc de Jarry). Lot of fun in Montreal, for sure.
 
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