UNH 2020 Off-Season Thread: That Rinky-Shrinky Thang And Other Lively Banter :D

[Chuck Murray]

Just echoing Chucks point that while this team isn't "top tier" they certainly aren't 5-13 or whatever the record is...Hear your point. But...maybe I am being too generous. Good for MC..going 2-0-2 against UNH in any given year must be a positive. Bet Scott Borek enjoyed it.. It's a beautiful day in Fla!

Yeah, my point was that whilst UNH seems to have middle-of-the-pack talent on the roster this year (and last season), their results aren't measuring up, as it's now two seasons in a row where UNH is languishing below what would be the Top 8 and playoff eligibility. They'll get a pass into the playoffs this season - they weren't going to get that reprieve last season, before the season shut down unexpectedly - and the trend from season-to-season hasn't been a positive one.

One of the ways you get yourself out of a hole like this one as a program is you have a coach that maximizes the talent and "coaches it up" so you can not only raise the level of the current team (and improve its players), but also get better access to higher quality future recruits. NONE of that appears to be happening in Durham right now. A team that should probably be a 5th or 6th place program based on talent and depth is wallowing at or around 9th place, and it's two straight seasons now, so it's not just "bad luck" or "one of those years".

Guys like Crookshank, Kelleher and Robinson are all likely gone in about a half-dozen more games (max). MS7 seems to have become overly reliant upon taking other program's cast-offs in recent years, and while that worked out incredibly well with Gildon, the guys since then haven't even come close to moving the needle in the same way. It looks like next year's goalie might be coming here via the same route, if speculation is to be believed? Not good, unless his name is Ty Conklin. Heck, I'd settle for the second coming of Sean Matile at this point.

So if you've got (say) 7th place talent and your team is fighting it out for 9th place, and can't manage a regulation win over the mighty Merrimack Borek Warriors in four (4) tries ... you can probably figure out what happens when you eventually end up with 9th place talent. HINT - it's an 11 team league.

 

[NCAA watcher]

So if you've got (say) 7th place talent and your team is fighting it out for 9th place, and can't manage a regulation win over the mighty Merrimack Borek Warriors in four (4) tries ...

Correction: "and you can't manage a regulation lead at any point over the mighty Merrimack Borek Warriors in 240 minutes."

I didn't catch it, but saw in the box score that Borek called time out with a 6-2 lead in the third last night. Why?

 

[Chuck Murray]

Umile didn't rebuild UNH. He inherited a foundation for the rebuild from Bob Kullen, of 6 All-American/NHL recruits who were either freshmen or sophomores.
Amodeo Fr.
Mitrovic Fr.
Flanagan Fr.
Scott Morrow Fr.
Winnes So.
Kevin Dean So.

He rode that core 6 his first four years, adding very little to the mix other than the aforementioned local townies like Chebator (Arlington), Thomson (Reading) Rob Donovan (Southie), Mike Sullivan (Reading) and Tom O'Brien (Tabor) Sean Perry (Southie) and Scott Malone (Southie) Cooper (Lawrence). Thus, when the core graduated in 92, the Umile built team was at .500.

Thankfully for Umile, he lucked into McCloskey, who in 92 jumpstarted recruiting with a first class Boguniecki, Nolan, and Tim Murray, and a second class of Mowers, Nikulas, (and Rob Gagnon), and a third class of Krog, Bekar (and Bragnalo).

So, it wasn't that Umile righted the ship, he got a really good ship in 1989 that he sailed from 88-92 without any repairs, then limped through 92-93 with his "built inside 128 recruiting" dingy, and was gifted a new boat by McCloskey in 93 til Umile cashed out.

It was the same lazy, selfish attitude that we saw in his final 6 years as he forced UNH to do the 3-year retirement circuit at full pay while "imparting" on his successor all of his coaching and recruiting "wisdom."

I'm well aware of the role Coach Kullen played in the post-Holt transition of the program back to prominence, 'Watcher. You are not the only person on here who has wistfully recounted how Kullen did the spade work out in the field, and tragically was never able to reap the full benefits of what his work had sown. And in the parts of the three seasons where he was well enough to coach, he did push the team from the cellar up to the .500 level in 5 game chunks of progress, and then Coach Umile was in the right place at the right time to take it from there. But at some point, you do have to give the guy credit for what he did with the opportunity when it was presented to him. Even if I take your point that there was a one-year fall-off before McCloskey arrived ... doesn't Umile get some credit for hiring McCloskey, who at that point was a relative nobody?

McCloskey at that point was basically an early version of MS7, a nondescript assistant at Brown working with Scott Borek (!) and under eventual Dartmouth HC Bob Gaudet. What were those 3 guys doing during their time in Providence? Sub .500 hockey that looks a lot like UNH right now. I'm probably the biggest McCloskey booster left on this board, and even I would have to give some credit to Coach Umile for having the foresight to hire McCloskey. I mean, if he hired Borek then instead, do we ever see UNH making it to four FF's in 6 seasons? With all due respect, I seriously doubt it. "Lucked into it" with the McCloskey hire seems a bit harsh, unless you have some very specific insight that I'm not privy to???

Coach Umile wasn't without his faults, I think we all know that he was imperfect, and it's likely what kept him from winning that final game of the season just that one time, that could have made all the difference on how he's now seen in retrospect.

But he did advance the program, enough so that with four straight winning seasons to start things off, that prompted UNH to build The Whittemore Center, which set the stage for the great things to follow over the next decade with McCloskey there to keep the talent flowing into this beautiful new facility. McCloskey's impact hadn't yet emerged beyond the die-hard college recruiting circles to have been a impacting factor in the decision to build The Whitt. It's possible that had Coach Kullen gotten some better breaks with his health, maybe he'd have accomplished the same great things that followed after him?

We'll never know what would have happened. What we do know is that Coach Umile's worst pre-Whitt record was a game better than Coach Kullen's career best year at UNH (.500). For all the kvetching we do over Coach Umile's career and the selfish way it ended, it is also a fact that he had all of two (2) losing seasons in his first 20 years post-Whitt, and many of those came after McCloskey had already moved over to the Women's side. Fair is fair.

Obviously, guys like Coach Holt and Coach Kullen (and others pre-Holt) deserve big credit for where the UNH program has come in the post-CHDA (College Hockey Dark Ages) era, but so does Coach Umile, as well as Coach McCloskey. Kullen and McCloskey tend to be the two guys who get overlooked - for different reasons - but the final part of the discussion is that as things stand right now, Coach Souza could be the first UNH head coach (not counting interim guys like O'Connor and Holt II) in well over a half-century (including Bjorkman, right Snives?) to not have advanced the UNH program during their tenure.

To paraphrase ... for those to whom much has been entrusted, much will be expected ...

 

[Chuck Murray]

Giving the other team 1.5 free goals a game (30 pp in 21 games) makes it hard.

Wow, hadn't thought of it like that, but that's an eye-opener. Freakin' off the charts bad.

I hesitate to say this, because it's the exact opposite of the direction I want them to go in, but for a limited talent team, they don't even play that physical. There is little checking, following through on forechecks. Macadams is the sole guy who has a bit of an edge (well, OK, Gendron, too). Everyone else is playing a pickup game, but not realizing they lack the skills to dangle.

Nail on the head. Something that's always been a burr under my saddle with most UNH teams. Even the most skillful BC teams have almost always also played with an edge. Walshy's UMaine teams from back in the day, Coach Parker's BU teams right through to their latest D-1 title, Providence since Leaman arrived, even Lowell in the Bazin era. UNH's best teams had guys like Pat Foley, Garrett Stafford, Colin Hemingway, Jayme Filipowicz, Eric Lind, Christian Bragnalo, and others who were not afraid to play with an edge.

Super-talented NHL teams like the Red Wings of the '90's and the current-day Tampa Bay Lightning didn't win their Cups until they added a physical edge to their everyday rosters. Hockey is a physical game. You rarely win trophies on skill alone. Even Les Canadiens of the late '70's needed some muscle (Robinson, Gainey and Langway) to balance off all the skilled superstars.

Makes you wonder if Umile hired an unknown Norm Bazin (instead of Borek) to replace McCloskey?

Which brings us back to the Penalty kill. They seem to play a tighter box, not pressuring the outside, but also let the guy in the crease alone and let the D go side to side. At some point, maybe mix it up and let a big D play man to man on the slot guy.

I absolutely hate the way UNH sets up their PK. But putting that aside ... why not discard the PK personnel that simply isn't working out, and going with different personnel AND tactics? When your PK is this historically bad, nothing should be off the table. Isn't a definition of "insanity" doing the same thing over and over, all the while expecting different results? Sort it MS7.

 

[e.cat]

All I can say is I’m glad we can’t witness this chit show in person!

 

[NCAA watcher]

Makes you wonder if Umile hired an unknown Norm Bazin (instead of Borek) to replace McCloskey?

To quote My Cousin Vinny, that's a bullshit question. Umile only recruited friends and family inside route 128, and he only hired guys within one degree of seperation. McCloskey was lucky enough to be working at Brown from 90-92 with two guys who Umile worked with at Providence (some guy named Borek and Lassonde). Bazin, while quite accomplished at Colorado College, was not a close friend, and would never get a job from Umile.


So how did UNH pick Umile's successor? Again, one degree of seperation: he convinced Scarano to ignore an open interview process, and instead pick someone willing to kiss the ring of Umile (Ok, that was a bad phrase, because Umile never got the ring.

 

[Snively65]

Watching NHL game at Lake Tahoe this afternoon brought back memories of Batchelder Rink pre-1965.

And, reading the past page of posts, brings back memories of the opening of Snively Arena for the 1965/66 season, which was concomitant with the arrival of Rube Bjorkman as head coach. Rube's mostly inherited team was 11-12 in ECAC2 that first season, and that was with my all-time favorites and seniors Brad Houston and Dude Thorn, both from Ontario. But, for the 1966-67 season, Rube recruited Bob Brandt (Roseau, MN), Rich David and Mickey Goulet (Montreal), Graham Bruder (Rouyn-Noranda, that is P.Q., eh), Dave Sheen (Galt, Ontario), and Mike Ontkean from Vancouver. Rube's record over the next three seasons before he left for North Dakota were 18-7, 22-7, 22-6-1 (that is right, just one tie!). After adding Louis Frigon, Mike McShane, Allan Clark, Ryan Brandt, Pete Stoutenburg for his own teams, he recruited Dick Umile, Guy Smith, John Gray, Terry Blewitt, Bill Munroe, and Gary Jaquith,who arrived for the 1969/70 team, which left Charlie Holt in pretty good shape going forward. Bottom line: Bjorkman left Holt in better shape than Umile left Souza, and Charlie kept things moving along on a solid track through the remainder of the 1970s. I think that those late 1970s teams were probably superior even to those that McCloskey recruited for Umile in the 1990s.

 

[whoop87]

JvR could become the 1st NHL player to get his 500th regular season point in Nevada tonight when the Flyers face the B's. He's coming into tonight's game with 254 goals and 245 assists in 755 regular season games. The rink is set up on the 18th fairway of the Edgewood Tahoe Resort in Stateline, NV. They should have a slapshot contest to see who can launch one into California. The B's need Big Z back for that one.

 

[Darius]

I'd settle for the second coming of Sean Matile at this point...

Settle? In a heart beat.

 

[Chuck Murray]

And, reading the past page of posts, brings back memories of the opening of Snively Arena for the 1965/66 season, which was concomitant with the arrival of Rube Bjorkman as head coach. Rube's mostly inherited team was 11-12 in ECAC2 that first season, and that was with my all-time favorites and seniors Brad Houston and Dude Thorn, both from Ontario. But, for the 1966-67 season, Rube recruited Bob Brandt (Roseau, MN), Rich David and Mickey Goulet (Montreal), Graham Bruder (Rouyn-Noranda, that is P.Q., eh), Dave Sheen (Galt, Ontario), and Mike Ontkean from Vancouver. Rube's record over the next three seasons before he left for North Dakota were 18-7, 22-7, 22-6-1 (that is right, just one tie!). After adding Louis Frigon, Mike McShane, Allan Clark, Ryan Brandt, Pete Stoutenburg for his own teams, he recruited Dick Umile, Guy Smith, John Gray, Terry Blewitt, Bill Munroe, and Gary Jaquith,who arrived for the 1969/70 team, which left Charlie Holt in pretty good shape going forward. Bottom line: Bjorkman left Holt in better shape than Umile left Souza, and Charlie kept things moving along on a solid track through the remainder of the 1970s. I think that those late 1970s teams were probably superior even to those that McCloskey recruited for Umile in the 1990s.

Not questioning the Bjorkman-to-Holt situation, Snives - you were there, I wasn't.

MS7 had a three year head start under Umile, who was a guy who churned out a run of about 90% winning seasons until those fateful last three seasons. I refuse to believe that given the dynamics of that situation, MS7 didn't have final say over the guys who would eventually be playing for him. Why would Souza have taken the job otherwise, seeing as he would not be "shopping for the groceries" and instead deferring to a guy whose actions over 25+ years screamed loud and long that he wasn't a recruiter, he relied on others to do that for him? He'd be setting himself up for a very predictable disaster. Umile handed over a middling .500-ish program to MS7 almost six (6) years ago. And it's been all steadily downhill ever since.

Even your position that the late '70's teams coached by Charlie Holt were more talented than the run of "McCloskey teams" coached by Umile - where Coach Umile got those teams marginally further than Coach Holt did with his teams - concedes that judging by that criteria alone, Coach Umile got more out of those teams than Coach Holt got out of his late '70's teams, right?

There's a lot of things Coach Umile did right, you don't experience that kind of success all by accident, or by being mediocre. He developed Coach Kullen's early talent, hired McCloskey after his own GBL-centric recruiting strategy was floundering, led the program's move into what was then a state-of-the-art facility, won some league titles (RS first, then tourney twice after), got to four FF's in six seasons, and kept the team somewhat relevant nationally for almost a decade after 2003's last trip to the FF. IIRC, even the much-maligned Jumbotron was a fait accompli by the time MS7 decided to enlist months later in 2015.

I'm having a hard time thinking MS7 was somehow deprived coming in, but if he was, he certainly could have negotiated a different arrangement, or just turned the job down entirely. That's what someone who's confident in their own abilities would do. Now, IF he wasn't all that confident ... he takes whatever terms are proposed, and hopes things work out for the best.

Where we (UNH) are as a program right now looks a lot more like the latter than the former ...

 

[Chuck Murray]

To quote My Cousin Vinny, that's a bull**** question. Umile only recruited friends and family inside route 128, and he only hired guys within one degree of seperation. McCloskey was lucky enough to be working at Brown from 90-92 with two guys who Umile worked with at Providence (some guy named Borek and Lassonde). Bazin, while quite accomplished at Colorado College, was not a close friend, and would never get a job from Umile.

Point well taken. Just from a timing standpoint, though, I like to think about how things could have gone differently had the post-McCloskey choice been different. Bazin - for all the early plaudits on his career at UML - still hasn't quite measured up to Umile's accomplishments, and at 10 years in charge, may already have peaked with the similar trademark fall-off after that marked Umile's time at UNH. He also left CC for 3 years of leading a D-3 program before making what now seems to have been the inevitable move to his alma mater. But one would think if he was offered a chance to come back East and coach as an assistant at UNH post-McCloskey, it would have been a tantalizing opportunity, and could have complemented Coach Umile's strengths with his own strengths on the physical and motivational side of the ledger.

But as you point out, it was realistically never going to happen. In the end, Umile's (and our) loss ...

So how did UNH pick Umile's successor? Again, one degree of seperation: he convinced Scarano to ignore an open interview process, and instead pick someone willing to kiss the ring of Umile (Ok, that was a bad phrase, because Umile never got the ring.

Hard to disagree with any of that. Maybe if Bazin was Barzini instead, he'd pass the paisan test ... ;-)

 

[NCAA watcher]

Hard to disagree with any of that. Maybe if Bazin was Barzini instead, he'd pass the paisan test ... ;-)

Marty Scarano would concur

https://www.unh.edu/unhtoday/2018/05/patriarch-puck

The Patriarch

Through the years, fans and insiders of Wildcat hockey often thought of themselves in terms of a “nation,” but the operative word might be “family,” with Umile in the role of patriarch. When Scarano was the athletic director at Colorado College, he had tried to recruit Umile to Colorado’s hockey program. Not only did Umile stay at UNH, he helped recruit Scarano to Durham. Scarano recalls with great fondness the weekend he came to campus to interview for the newly vacant athletic director position.

“I came into town and stayed at the Three Chimneys Inn,” Scarano says. After his interviews, Umile invited Scarano to dinner at his favorite Portsmouth restaurant, The Rosa. “I show up and the owner Jerry leads me past the diners into a back room. It’s completely empty except for one table for two where Dick is sitting.

“‘This the guy?’ Jerry asks.

“‘Yep, that’s the guy,’ says Dick.

“Dick’s got a big grin on his face. It was like something out of the Godfather. So, we sat, two Italians, and had a glass of wine and I ordered spaghetti with olive oil and extra anchovies.

“‘He must be Italian,’ says Jerry.’”

The meal at The Rosa began a tradition of breaking bread together over important conversations between the two men that spanned nearly three decades.

Scarano pegs Umile as “a classic Italian patriarch,”

So would Chris Serino

You can understand how Scarano was afraid to tell Umile no when Dick wanted a three year payout and farewell tour, and to name his successor.

 

[Chuck Murray]

You can understand how Scarano was afraid to tell Umile no when Dick wanted a three year payout and farewell tour, and to name his successor.

WIS has secured secret surveillance footage of the first Scarano-Umile meeting at The Rosa ...

 

[Scott]

WIS has secured secret surveillance footage of the first Scarano-Umile meeting at The Rosa ...

Another one of those books that has never been written:

UNH Hockey: The Tale of Two Paisans

 

[Dan]

Puzzled by this "talent" you speak of....isn't the narrative that Souza has done a terrible job recruiting?

But now UNH is a talented team that is underperforming?

Its both - while I think the talent is being overstated a bit, they're also not playing up to the ability they do have. The big issue with the recruiting, however, is the depth of talent. Go back and look at all the forwards on the 07-08 team (Borek recruiting)...

In order of scoring that season:

Fornataro
Radja
JVR
Pollastrone
Dries
Butler
Leblanc
Desimone
Thompson
Sislo

That's 10 All-HE to All-American type forwards (at some point during their careers) on a single roster. How many does UNH have now? I'd say Crookshank qualifies, so that's one. Maybe Pierson? There are some other guys who could be third pieces to top lines, but they're not driving forces. So, to say they're underachieving is fair - but they also represent a significant drop in recruiting.

Goaltenders that season were Regan and Foster.

The defense on that team wasn't exactly a big name group, but they're sure a lot more productive than this year's group. Reid might be the most talented on either roster, but he's still just a frosh...

 

[Dan]

Bruins blasting the Flyers in Tahoe, 7-3, but no fault of JVR who has a goal and two assists, and now boasts 502 career points...

 

[NCAA watcher]

[TABLE="class: Table, width: 316"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #cccccc"]Player[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #cccccc"]POS[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #cccccc"]YR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #cccccc"]GP[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #cccccc"]G[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #cccccc"]A[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #cccccc"]PTS[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #cccccc"]+/-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Angus Crookshank [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]JR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]18[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]9[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]8[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]17[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Cam Gendron[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]FR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]14[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]William MacKinnon[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]D[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]JR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]20[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Drew Hickey[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]D[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]JR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]6[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Jackson Pierson[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]JR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]21[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]8[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]15[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]23[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Eric MacAdams[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]SR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]14[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]7[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Nikolai Jenson[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]D[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]FR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]18[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Kohei Sato[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]SR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]20[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]6[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]7[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]-1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Lucas Herrmann[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]SO[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]15[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]6[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]-1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Joe Hankinson[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]SO[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]13[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]-1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Chase Stevenson[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]SO[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]-1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Charlie Kelleher[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]SR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]11[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]-2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Alec Semandel[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]D[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]JR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]18[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]-3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Ryan Verrier[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]D[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]JR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]21[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]7[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]-4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Nick Cafarelli[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]FR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]14[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]6[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]-4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Joe Nagle[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]D[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]FR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]7[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]-4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Joseph Cipollone[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]JR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]10[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]-4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Tyler Ward[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]JR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]19[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]6[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]-5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Luke Reid[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]D[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]FR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]20[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]6[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]-6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Patrick Grasso[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]SR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]21[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]7[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]8[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]15[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]-7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Filip Engarås [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]JR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]20[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]8[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]-7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Benton Maass[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]D[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]SR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]18[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]-7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Carsen Richels[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]FR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]21[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]-12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Kalle Eriksson[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]D[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]SO[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]21[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]12[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]17[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]-13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]Eric Esposito[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]JR[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]15[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: white"]-15[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Chuck Murray]

Assuming the point of your listing is to highlight some of the plus/minus figures there, 'Watcher ... there are some surprising (and some not-so-surprising) names near the bottom of that list. Maybe your theory of moving Kalle up to a forward line role doesn't look so crazy when you consider what he's leaking and costing the team on the back end?? Unfortunately, there's no similar compelling justification for Maass; it's disappointing to see a kid with four years in the program lagging, confirming a few of my in-game observations. I'm also a little surprised at where Engaras is, for someone who has enjoyed a positive rep for an all-around game. Thanks for sharing.

 

[NCAA watcher]

Assuming the point of your listing is to highlight some of the plus/minus figures there, 'Watcher ... there are some surprising (and some not-so-surprising) names near the bottom of that list. Maybe your theory of moving Kalle up to a forward line role doesn't look so crazy when you consider what he's leaking and costing the team on the back end?? Unfortunately, there's no similar compelling justification for Maass; it's disappointing to see a kid with four years in the program lagging, confirming a few of my in-game observations. I'm also a little surprised at where Engaras is, for someone who has enjoyed a positive rep for an all-around game. Thanks for sharing.

Eh, I posted to see if the statistics match the eye test. There's several where they don't, to my eyes.

Like a lot of stats, much like goals, assists, or shots on net Corsi that you recently diminished, you can get something that doesn't show true impact. Particularly in small samples, you can get a guy who happens to be on the ice but did everything right, and gets a minus. Or the second defenseman who did nothing but watch the forwards get the goal and gets a plus.

For that reason, you Jackson Pierson can lead this year, but have a team worst -8 last year. And Benton Maass can be bad this year, but among the leaders last year.

But so can goals. I mean, was Sato at 10 goals last year different than his one goal this year?

 

[Chuck Murray]

Eh, I posted to see if the statistics match the eye test. There's several where they don't, to my eyes.

Like a lot of stats, much like goals, assists, or shots on net Corsi that you recently diminished, you can get something that doesn't show true impact. Particularly in small samples, you can get a guy who happens to be on the ice but did everything right, and gets a minus. Or the second defenseman who did nothing but watch the forwards get the goal and gets a plus.

For that reason, you Jackson Pierson can lead this year, but have a team worst -8 last year. And Benton Maass can be bad this year, but among the leaders last year.

But so can goals. I mean, was Sato at 10 goals last year different than his one goal this year?

Fair points all. As you know, I'm hardly the stats devotee, especially when it comes to continuous motion team sports, which in my mind are hockey and soccer (not so coincidentally my two favorite sports). I probably give more credence to the plus/minus stats in hockey than other "advanced analytics", and I'm honestly not sure if it's (1) because it's been around longer, or (2) because I think it tends to balance itself out over the long run? That's hardly objective, I know. But I've seen Maass making some absolutely brain-dead decisions - and costly ones too, at key moments in losses - so seeing him near the bottom of the list "clicks" for me. Eriksson, I probably focus more on his game at the other end of the ice, and hadn't picked up on his defensive shortcomings like you did.

Sato's case is probably an example of water settling at its "right" level. The break-out season last year came from out of nowhere (an Austin Block comp, except Block did it as a senior?), and it's kind of proven to have been an outlier after this season to date. But that's a kid I'd like to see getting more time on the PK. I don't see full games regularly enough to see if he's a regular part of the PK or not. Hard worker, strong skater, decent positional sense, was trusted to play defense earlier in his career (if only briefly), but even if he fits the mold, if they make him play below the dots, those skills get wasted, no?

Umile certainly got his fair share of criticism, but I don't ever remember it being based on such fundamental things, as it seems to be now with MS7. The "Robinson 24/7" thing has me scratching my head too, and all I can read into that mess is Souza is legitimately scared he might not be back next season if he doesn't squeeze every last W out of this season, right to the end. He's certainly handling that issue a lot different than his mentor did. And in this instance, I suspect Umile had the better approach. Robinson is good ... but he's not Conklin good, or Regan good, or DeSmith good. That he plays virtually every game while a junior he personally recruited rots at the end of the bench ... something's just not adding up ...