UMaine Black Bears, 2017-2018 season, is this Reds last stand?

[amkirby10]

Per usual Bhall is talking a lot of sense. The quick fix/easy turnaround crowd are delusional.

I agree. Maybe my expectations are lower since I'm younger and wasn't around to see the team be truly competitive under Walsh and early Whitehead, but I like the progress the players are making, at least in my eyes.

 

[ticapnews]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2017-2018 season, is this Reds last stand?

Isn't this reds 4th year? Most people have been patient. That patience won't last forever.

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<img src="https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/3/3c/Ernie_5.jpg"</img>.

 

[walrus]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2017-2018 season, is this Reds last stand?

<img src="https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/3/3c/Ernie_5.jpg"</img>.

I was think 3 and 2 on contracts. I think that just shows patience has been a virtue so far with Maine fans

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[tylerzx2002]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2017-2018 season, is this Reds last stand?

Look at that treasure trove of talent that came to Orono from 2009-10 season through 2015-16 season!!!! Maybe you are the only person incapable of seeing it. Talent = Not Good. I don't care if you are Tim, Red, or Shawn. The talent from those years is the primary accelerant of what has colloquially around here been termed the "Dumpster Fire". Throw in reduced funding and a string of very unfortunate goalie events and you get the "Lost Decade". You simply are not going to win with that.

Perhaps some numbers will help. From the "non-Standbrook Whitehead Era" (5 seasons, 2009 to 2013), aka the "Big Jr. Monarchs Era", you have 8 non-replaceable players (Mangene, Ouellette, Shore, Hutton, Renouf, Byron to go along with Parker & Lomberg who both got kicked out of school), 5 NHL draft picks (Pryor, Ouelette, Shore, Hutton, Byron) of which I am still not sure who Nick Pryor knew that got him drafted. 8 players who played a full season in USHL of which Joe Diamond was not invited back and played his final year of juniors in Ontario.

Looking at the Red Era (4 seasons, 2014-2017) there are 8 non-replaceables (Michel, Pearson, Shea, Fossier, Holway, Swayman, Tralmaks, Binner). If you noticed 7 of those 8 came in the past two years. Two, Holesinsky & Tiuraniemi, have the potential to play themselves into the non-replaceable category with time. Currently, UMaine has 7 recruits playing in the USHL, that is only 1 less than the ENTIRE "non-Strandbrook Whitehead Era"! This season the USHL has more players on NHL Central Scouting list than any other junior league in the world, including major junior leagues. Add that to the 10 current players who played in USHL including last seasons playoff MVP (Tralmaks). 5 NHL draft picks (Vesey, Pearson, Holway, Shea, Swayman), of which I do know who Vesey knows that got him drafted. That is 4 draft picks is two years. Binner has a shot at being drafted this year (if so he would be the first player drafted while currently at UMaine since 2006, Simon Danis-Pepin).

Good in-depth analysis isn't always easy to find, but as usual you nailed it.

 

[BlackBearFan19]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2017-2018 season, is this Reds last stand?

This weekend should be interesting. Hopefully Maine can pull something out on the road. Tralmarks is the best player we've had in a while and I wouldn't be suprised to see him take over this series. I thought Holesinsky looked really sharp last weekend, suprised that was the first we saw of him. Lowell is in pretty rough shape in Hockey East so they'll come out swinging but I think if Maine weathers the storm Friday, they could potentially take a game. Given the way Maine played against Duluth, I'd be suprised to see them get swept.

 

[Bhall44]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2017-2018 season, is this Reds last stand?

I thought Holesinsky looked really sharp last weekend, suprised that was the first we saw of him.

Welcome to the forum! Holesinsky was dealing with a lower body injury he suffered between the Acadia exhibition and the first UConn game. Hopefully he moves to C once he gets his legs back.

 

[BlackBearFan19]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2017-2018 season, is this Reds last stand?

Thanks! I figured it had to be an injury because he looked great in the Saturday game. I think he has a good shot at getting on the scoresheet this weekend. Also I would like to see some consistency start developing in the lines. With the depth on this years team, there is potential for 4 solid lines. Tralmarks-Pearson-Vesey could be a great line if they get going.

 

[amkirby10]

Thanks! I figured it had to be an injury because he looked great in the Saturday game. I think he has a good shot at getting on the scoresheet this weekend. Also I would like to see some consistency start developing in the lines. With the depth on this years team, there is potential for 4 solid lines. Tralmarks-Pearson-Vesey could be a great line if they get going.

I would rather the first line be Fossier-Pearson-Tralmaks, since I feel like Mitchell and Eddie have some good chemistry going so far.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2017-2018 season, is this Reds last stand?

Not sure why it is hard to "grasp" if you re-read my entry you will see, quite explicitly, "the past two recruiting classes are very good". Perhaps this spreadsheet will aid in triggering some accurate memories for you. I made this a while back and didn't complete it, although for the purpose of this post I did add in the freshmen class.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gUgzuZZajDu_QiSdbK5KIw-UOAoC59kGIRYwJkQ5RHg/edit#gid=0

Look at that treasure trove of talent that came to Orono from 2009-10 season through 2015-16 season!!!! Maybe you are the only person incapable of seeing it. Talent = Not Good. I don't care if you are Tim, Red, or Shawn. The talent from those years is the primary accelerant of what has colloquially around here been termed the "Dumpster Fire". Throw in reduced funding and a string of very unfortunate goalie events and you get the "Lost Decade". You simply are not going to win with that.

Perhaps some numbers will help. From the "non-Standbrook Whitehead Era" (5 seasons, 2009 to 2013), aka the "Big Jr. Monarchs Era", you have 8 non-replaceable players (Mangene, Ouellette, Shore, Hutton, Renouf, Byron to go along with Parker & Lomberg who both got kicked out of school), 5 NHL draft picks (Pryor, Ouelette, Shore, Hutton, Byron) of which I am still not sure who Nick Pryor knew that got him drafted. 8 players who played a full season in USHL of which Joe Diamond was not invited back and played his final year of juniors in Ontario.

Looking at the Red Era (4 seasons, 2014-2017) there are 8 non-replaceables (Michel, Pearson, Shea, Fossier, Holway, Swayman, Tralmaks, Binner). If you noticed 7 of those 8 came in the past two years. Two, Holesinsky & Tiuraniemi, have the potential to play themselves into the non-replaceable category with time. Currently, UMaine has 7 recruits playing in the USHL, that is only 1 less than the ENTIRE "non-Strandbrook Whitehead Era"! This season the USHL has more players on NHL Central Scouting list than any other junior league in the world, including major junior leagues. Add that to the 10 current players who played in USHL including last seasons playoff MVP (Tralmaks). 5 NHL draft picks (Vesey, Pearson, Holway, Shea, Swayman), of which I do know who Vesey knows that got him drafted. That is 4 draft picks is two years. Binner has a shot at being drafted this year (if so he would be the first player drafted while currently at UMaine since 2006, Simon Danis-Pepin).


I am not aware of a single person on this forum who has suggested that Maine is an above average team. Without collecting data from the entire USCHO forum, every poster I am aware of has suggested that Maine will finish somewhere from 7th to 11th. And I think it is fair to say that the general consensus is that if Maine finishes 11th that we as Maine fans will be justified in calling for Red's head. If they finish 7th than Red will have taken the step in the right direction we have all been waiting for and we should congratulate. Walrus hit the nail on the head with the name of this year's thread!! The seat is hot

Good teams have 4 good recruiting classes in house. Maine has two now. Next year makes 3, then 4, then 5. Players develop into better players with time. If you expect a good class of recruits to show up and rescue the program from the dumpster fire in their first season and bring Maine a championship you are as delusional as your posts seem. The road to the top from rock bottom is a looooong one. So if there is talent available and still no W's it must be the system which leads us to... Good teams also have good coaches. Is Red the guy? Ben? Alfie? Only they can answer that by providing some W's.


For anyone who has taken in a UMaine game with me over the years will know that complaining about skating around UMaine defensemen is one of my favorite pass times. To me the "non-Standbrook Whitehead Era" was epitomized by poor skating undersized defensemen who couldn't clear the puck. I even have a sarcastic MT. Rushmore of these guys, I call them the "Pillars"... you know for stationary reasons.

As for this season, against UConn weekend 50/50 possession split, Miami dominated possession Friday/Maine dominated Saturday, against Duluth they hung on and gave themselves a chance against a much superior team and I personally think that is a good trait. As someone who attends every Maine home game and some away games that doesn't sound, or look, like skating rings around Maine, or a team that is a disaster, terrible, or whatever adjectives you use to describe the team. Sounds like a team that is somewhere between the bottom and the middle. And for a program that 2 seasons ago was at the bottom that means the team has gotten better.

In the end I know that I wasted my time writing the post to you but perhaps others on the forum will appreciate some of the actual facts.

I could say a lot of things in response to your (apparently drunken, personal and fairly murky) rant, but I don't like to quibble with fellow fans. We all want to see Maine rise from the ashes.

Still, we'll see who has the more accurate take on this team later this season, and in the next few years to come, should Red last that long. ( Or maybe you've re-written "War and Peace" in the above, just to make the roundabout point that Maine will likely be irrelevant yet again this year..? No argument there, Bucko. )

 

[umhockey91]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2017-2018 season, is this Reds last stand?

This will be a telling weekend. Was Maine's disciplined defensive play & stellar goaltending a mirage....or are they actually improving? I will be disappointed if they regress.

 

[walrus]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2017-2018 season, is this Reds last stand?

This will be a telling weekend. Was Maine's disciplined defensive play & stellar goaltending a mirage....or are they actually improving? I will be disappointed if they regress.

I can't see much success based on their road record the last few years. A win would be huge, a tie better than nothing but 0 points likely.

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[BoSox3066]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2017-2018 season, is this Reds last stand?

I dont know about the ushl stuff, during the jr monarchs era all anybody ever wanted was ushl guys and frankly all the new hampshire kids were better than the **** ushl crop

I mean there are a lot of great playeds in the U, dont get me wrong, but the aint comin to Maine

 

[Ma#1ne Hky]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2017-2018 season, is this Reds last stand?

I can't see much success based on their road record the last few years. A win would be huge, a tie better than nothing but 0 points likely.

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Going into a Hornets nest, and it may not be what Maine is looking for to start a winning streak {a win} on the road.

 

[Ma#1ne Hky]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2017-2018 season, is this Reds last stand?

I dont know about the ushl stuff, during the jr monarchs era all anybody ever wanted was ushl guys and frankly all the new hampshire kids were better than the **** ushl crop

I mean there are a lot of great playeds in the U, dont get me wrong, but the aint comin to Maine

Now a days we get what we get and hope/dream/etc. and if anything comes out of it, well so be it {called luck or roll of the dice!}....but expectations are not there anymore compared to way back then...................

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2017-2018 season, is this Reds last stand?

I dont know about the ushl stuff, during the jr monarchs era all anybody ever wanted was ushl guys and frankly all the new hampshire kids were better than the **** ushl crop

I mean there are a lot of great playeds in the U, dont get me wrong, but the aint comin to Maine

A lot of us were critical of Tim's latter-day recruiting, as was I, but even The Dipsy-Doodle Twins (that term is Wally's intellectual property, BTW, and pretty accurate) would the best-skilled offensive players on this Maine team.

I'm going to head-off any pizzing-contest with Bhall at the pass here, by admitting that I have served no purpose via being so negative about the Red era. I absolutely want him to succeed. We all do. But the BS stops when the puck drops.

As a crusty old bastid who attended the first Maine game ever, every home game for the following fours years, and hundreds of road games in the 36 years since then, I'm just not seeing the current program as being much of a return on my money at this point. ( And, yes, I was spoiled by the Walsh Era. )

I'll shut my pie-hole and hope for the best. We're going to RPI later this season, and I'll stream what's available before and after that weekend. Watch all the televised games, too.

Not optimistic -I do have eyes- but I remain loyal, if realistic.

 

[BlackBearFan19]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2017-2018 season, is this Reds last stand?

I disagree, the jr. monarchs produced a couple decent guys, (Flynn and Mangene were great ones) but most of the players who came out of there were undersized. Red definitely seems to take a liking to size, although it hasn't yet panned out. Most of those teams during the so called jr. monarchs era were fueled by guys who weren't jr. monarchs (Nyquist, Abbott, House, Dee). I think it's yet to be seen if the USHL guys pan out. Of the guys currently on the roster from the USHL, almost all are Freshman and Sophomores. (Lacroix is the exception)

 

[walrus]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2017-2018 season, is this Reds last stand?

A lot of us were critical of Tim's latter-day recruiting, as was I, but even The Dipsy-Doodle Twins (that term is Wally's intellectual property, BTW, and pretty accurate) would the best-skilled offensive players on this Maine team.

I'm going to head-off any pizzing-contest with Bhall at the pass here, by admitting that I have served no purpose via being so negative about the Red era. I absolutely want him to succeed. We all do. But the BS stops when the puck drops.

As a crusty old bastid who attended the first Maine game ever, every home game for the following fours years, and hundreds of road games in the 36 years since then, I'm just not seeing the current program as being much of a return on my money at this point. ( And, yes, I was spoiled by the Walsh Era. )

I'll shut my pie-hole and hope for the best. We're going to RPI later this season, and I'll stream what's available before and after that weekend. Watch all the televised games, too.

Not optimistic -I do have eyes- but I remain loyal, if realistic.

I long for the days of Hopson and Ryan

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[BoSox3066]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2017-2018 season, is this Reds last stand?

All I know is 3-4 years ago when the recruits thread started filling up with guys in the USHL I thought "Cool, best league, people have wanted this for years, team should get better." And the team is an abomination.

USHL recruits----Pryor, eh, Merchant and Morris, not good, Renoeuf, eh, Shurharmer and Morgan, not great, Cedric Lacroix is nothing to write home about.

Fossier's pretty good. Their two best guys from that time frame, Byron and Brown, weren't USHL guys.

My point is looking at what's coming in in 19 20 or 21 and thinking because they're in the U they're good hasn't translated and it probably won't. Can the kids play or not is the bottom line, not if they're in the U, the NEJ, or the BCHL

 

[BlackBearFan19]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2017-2018 season, is this Reds last stand?

All I know is 3-4 years ago when the recruits thread started filling up with guys in the USHL I thought "Cool, best league, people have wanted this for years, team should get better." And the team is an abomination.

USHL recruits----Pryor, eh, Merchant and Morris, not good, Renoeuf, eh, Shurharmer and Morgan, not great, Cedric Lacroix is nothing to write home about.

Fossier's pretty good. Their two best guys from that time frame, Byron and Brown, weren't USHL guys.

My point is looking at what's coming in in 19 20 or 21 and thinking because they're in the U they're good hasn't translated and it probably won't. Can the kids play or not is the bottom line, not if they're in the U, the NEJ, or the BCHL

I have to agree with a lot of what you're saying. I think a major downfall of the coaching staff is that they discredit players based on size. Red is looking for the prototype player and we have a couple. Our USHL guys are our best players right now (Tralmarks, Pearson, Holway, Swayman, Fossier) and it seems those guys are more ready to make an immediate impact. I agree with finding the best available players from all the leagues and not going all in on one of them.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2017-2018 season, is this Reds last stand?

All I know is 3-4 years ago when the recruits thread started filling up with guys in the USHL I thought "Cool, best league, people have wanted this for years, team should get better." And the team is an abomination.

USHL recruits----Pryor, eh, Merchant and Morris, not good, Renoeuf, eh, Shurharmer and Morgan, not great, Cedric Lacroix is nothing to write home about.

Fossier's pretty good. Their two best guys from that time frame, Byron and Brown, weren't USHL guys.

My point is looking at what's coming in in 19 20 or 21 and thinking because they're in the U they're good hasn't translated and it probably won't. Can the kids play or not is the bottom line, not if they're in the U, the NEJ, or the BCHL

I was forced a while ago by better-informed people to study the Juniors a little more. As far as American leagues go, you probably want the USPHL.

But, whatever the supposed pedigree is, there is always just watching what you see on the ice... (Dustin Penner came from a completely obscure situation in Manitoba, for instance. ) It's all about finding them when you can, and Maine was already good when Grant dug Penner up.

This regime needs some sort of compass going forward. Near the bottom of the KRACH already, right where they finished at the end of last year. I do realize that we're only several games in, but it's hard to see any improvement so far.