UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Why do you think that? [I'm not trying to be a wiseass. I'm curious as to how everyone reads it.]

GFM

Primarily: given the facilities in the AHA, why would it be such a big deal if the VBC had improvements? It's already more substantial than most of what you'll find in the AHA.

Second: If the CCHA listed facilities as a reason for turning down uAH, and the VbC had renovations, that would be an indication that the new cCHA schools might have raised their eyebrows. Consider that the old WCHA had tougher facility standards, but the nWCHA doesn't have the B1Gs or the nChC schools to justify the higher standards.

 

[davyd83]

Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

Primarily: given the facilities in the AHA, why would it be such a big deal if the VBC had improvements? It's already more substantial than most of what you'll find in the AHA.

Second: If the CCHA listed facilities as a reason for turning down uAH, and the VbC had renovations, that would be an indication that the new cCHA schools might have raised their eyebrows. Consider that the old WCHA had tougher facility standards, but the nWCHA doesn't have the B1Gs or the nChC schools to justify the higher standards.

That was but one of the issues and objections of the CCHA. If facilities was previously one objection from the CCHA, but not for the AHA, now they are on equal footing. I would hesitate to make either one the favorite until I see substantiation from representatives of both leagues.

 

[ChargerBlue]

Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

That was but one of the issues and objections of the CCHA. If facilities was previously one objection from the CCHA, but not for the AHA, now they are on equal footing. I would hesitate to make either one the favorite until I see substantiation from representatives of both leagues.

The big issues and questions from the CCHA were not the quality/amenities of the VBC but their commitment to UAH and not playing second fiddle to the Havoc in scheduling. I don't think any of the CCHA schools cared whether there was a video board or nicer concessions. It was about playing Saturday afternoon or Thursday night games and the unwillingness to black out dates for potential playoffs.

 

[davyd83]

Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

The big issues and questions from the CCHA were not the quality/amenities of the VBC but their commitment to UAH and not playing second fiddle to the Havoc in scheduling. I don't think any of the CCHA schools cared whether there was a video board or nicer concessions. It was about playing Saturday afternoon or Thursday night games and the unwillingness to black out dates for potential playoffs.

That and travel expense. Those two items remain with the new WCHA, maybe even more. If that gap can be bridged, UAH's chances improve greatly.

 

[fangers]

Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/04/uah_hockey_chargers_still_sear.html

Who wants to read that and then tell me which conference we're headed in? I haven't asked anyone in Spragins Hall at all, but I have a good idea based on this.

GFM

After reading it a couple times, coupled with has been previously put out here (i.e. meeting with AH folks in Tampa, the not so veiled comments about talking to a conference that would have 9 teams, etc.) I could easily see people pick either nWCHA or AH and have reasonable rationale for both.

I think Dr. Brophy was being intentionally vague/ambigous, wanting to communicate why they were optimistic coming out of Tampa but not specify any specific conference.

His comments about "...we made a breakthrough..." and "I think we might have pushed it to the next notch." could apply to both. There had already been some conversations with the nWCHA (assumed by me, the conference has never been named by anyone offically associated with UAH) prior to Tampa, so it's reasonable to think that progress could have been made on that front. But the perception among many, myself obviously included, has been that AH had no interest in UAH joining; therefore, since we know some conversations were had between the two parties, the breakthrough could also be in reference to AH.

His comments about "We can't be picky...we have got to get into the first conference that bites the hook..." makes me think more towards AH. It's long been thought that the nWCHA would be our referred conference, but this pretty well puts to rest that there is any preference. It could also be the proverbial shot across the bow of any potential conference (but probably more the nWCHA since talks had already taken place) - if you want us, don't put off a decision too long because someone else may offer before.

His comment about the city spending the money to refurbish the VBC and that a number of conferences changed their tune - I think this might apply more to the WCHA since none of their teams visited after the work was done - BSU has been there before and saw the ongoing construction last year so they knew work was being done. The CCHA had several teams visit the last two seasons, including FSU, LSSU and BG who will be nWCHA, so they should be aware for the during & after construction work. AH also had a couple teams in the last two years. But who knows how much awareness there was at the conference level.

His comments about "Reinforcing to people that we beat Denver, who was nationally ranked, and that we tied Air Force opened people's eyes and made them think." - I think this would apply more to the AH and the current CCHA than it would any current WCHA teams, who I would think would have already been aware that we beat Denver, UNO and took UMD down to the wire.

I still think it's pointing more to the nWCHA, but I would not be surprised if it ends up being the AH - something I didn't see as being very probable just a couple weeks ago.

But I could be reading way too much into all of it Not the first time I've done that.

 

[gfmorris]

Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

Y'all have changed my thinking a couple of times here.

GFM <-- trying to be as vague as EJ

 

[Jim]

Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

Doesn't UCONN to Hockey East, if it happens, make UAH to Atlantic the most logical move? And given AHA's pod scheduling it might not be too bad either. Though there would have to be some reshuffling of the pods I guess, but playing the East 2 games home or away, then 2-1 agaisnt the west would solve you rscheduling issues, allow you to re-establish relationships with Niagara, Robert Morris, Army, and Air Force, have a reasonable number of home games, play for "something". For all the downside, and I have to question if that downside is really that bad, it would seem to be the answer to a prayer. I guess the "new" WCHA could work too, but the AHA thing in my opinion works pretty well for you guys.

 

[pinch]

Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

I hate to say it, but at the end of the day, I am not optimistic about UAH landing anywhere. When it comes down to it, each AD at the schools involved have to ask themselves --- "is our school better off by admitting UAH" I can't see any of them saying yes.
Budgets, travel, school time etc all point to voting no. Throw in another school competing for the same NCAA bid and I just don't see the non hockey people thinking this is a good idea.

 

[RIT Winters]

Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

Doesn't UCONN to Hockey East, if it happens, make UAH to Atlantic the most logical move? And given AHA's pod scheduling it might not be too bad either. Though there would have to be some reshuffling of the pods I guess, but playing the East 2 games home or away, then 2-1 agaisnt the west would solve you rscheduling issues, allow you to re-establish relationships with Niagara, Robert Morris, Army, and Air Force, have a reasonable number of home games, play for "something". For all the downside, and I have to question if that downside is really that bad, it would seem to be the answer to a prayer. I guess the "new" WCHA could work too, but the AHA thing in my opinion works pretty well for you guys.

The UCONN decision I think will have a direct impact on the future of the UAH program. If UCONN sticks with AHA I don't see there being any chance of UAH joining, as AHA won't have any need to take on the extra financial and travel burden.

If UCONN leaves though, I think the AHA will definitely look at UAH because they are the biggest/best/only realistic option for filling the spot immediately.

And it's been made pretty clear that UAH is going to go to whoever asks first, which implies not a lot of interest from conferences so far.

 

[giwan]

Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

I hate to say it, but at the end of the day, I am not optimistic about UAH landing anywhere. When it comes down to it, each AD at the schools involved have to ask themselves --- "is our school better off by admitting UAH" I can't see any of them saying yes.
Budgets, travel, school time etc all point to voting no. Throw in another school competing for the same NCAA bid and I just don't see the non hockey people thinking this is a good idea.

Could make that argument about several schools, ie Alaska et al. The question to be asked I believe is, does adding UAH make "our school/conference" worse off.

 

[UAHStatman]

Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

The UCONN decision I think will have a direct impact on the future of the UAH program. If UCONN sticks with AHA I don't see there being any chance of UAH joining, as AHA won't have any need to take on the extra financial and travel burden.

If UCONN leaves though, I think the AHA will definitely look at UAH because they are the biggest/best/only realistic option for filling the spot immediately.

I agree, AHA won't go to 13. But they are apparently looking at UAH if (or when?) UConn leaves. It would be either UAH or nothing.

And it's been made pretty clear that UAH is going to go to whoever asks first, which implies not a lot of interest from conferences so far.

No, it implies that we want this ordeal to be over, as in right now. It doesn't say anything about conferences' interest. It says everything about our impatience.

 

[UAHStatman]

Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

Doesn't UCONN to Hockey East, if it happens, make UAH to Atlantic the most logical move? And given AHA's pod scheduling it might not be too bad either. Though there would have to be some reshuffling of the pods I guess, but playing the East 2 games home or away, then 2-1 agaisnt the west would solve you rscheduling issues, allow you to re-establish relationships with Niagara, Robert Morris, Army, and Air Force, have a reasonable number of home games, play for "something". For all the downside, and I have to question if that downside is really that bad, it would seem to be the answer to a prayer. I guess the "new" WCHA could work too, but the AHA thing in my opinion works pretty well for you guys.

From the UAH perspective, I do see these upsides with Atlantic Hockey:

1. The average distance between Huntsville and the schools in AHA (assuming UConn leaves, and including Air Force) is 809 miles (as the crow flies). The average distance between Huntsville and the nWCHA (not including Alaska) is 764 -- shorter by 45 miles. But you can't not include Alaska, so the AHA may very well be the lesser of the two in terms of travel costs.

2. One of the reasons the UAH program was put on the chopping block was because it couldn't maintain a $1.5 million budget to field a competitive program. I don't think we'd need that much to field a competitive team in Atlantic Hockey, partially because of that 12-scholarship limit, but simply because AHA programs don't have as large of budgets as in other leagues.

3. While renewing our rivalry with Bemidji would be nice, those old CHA foes you mentioned are nothing to scoff at. I also can't help but think that a UAH-RIT rivalry would be pretty cool.

Downsides: Limiting scholarships at 12, competition level not as high as nWCHA. But the upsides of joining AHA are something UAH could take advantage of.

 

[davyd83]

Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

Could make that argument about several schools, ie Alaska et al. The question to be asked I believe is, does adding UAH make "our school/conference" worse off.

That argument doesn't make sense for the Alaskas, since they will absorb a large portion of the travel costs and you get two free games by spending a weekend in Alaska.

 

[RIT Winters]

Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

No, it implies that we want this ordeal to be over, as in right now. It doesn't say anything about conferences' interest. It says everything about our impatience.

Well, at least we know that they haven't gone anywhere yet which means no one has expressed enough interest to invite them. I think if they had multiple conferences knocking down there door they wouldn't say "first come first served!" they would want to sit back and take in all the offers and pick the best one.

Either way, it's all just conjecture until we get a UCONN decision which I believe is happening within the next month.

 

[Jim]

Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

From the UAH perspective, I do see these upsides with Atlantic Hockey:

1. The average distance between Huntsville and the schools in AHA (assuming UConn leaves, and including Air Force) is 809 miles (as the crow flies). The average distance between Huntsville and the nWCHA (not including Alaska) is 764 -- shorter by 45 miles. But you can't not include Alaska, so the AHA may very well be the lesser of the two in terms of travel costs.

2. One of the reasons the UAH program was put on the chopping block was because it couldn't maintain a $1.5 million budget to field a competitive program. I don't think we'd need that much to field a competitive team in Atlantic Hockey, partially because of that 12-scholarship limit, but simply because AHA programs don't have as large of budgets as in other leagues.

3. While renewing our rivalry with Bemidji would be nice, those old CHA foes you mentioned are nothing to scoff at. I also can't help but think that a UAH-RIT rivalry would be pretty cool.

Downsides: Limiting scholarships at 12, competition level not as high as nWCHA. But the upsides of joining AHA are something UAH could take advantage of.

Don't know that average distance has much to do with it. And I have no idea what or how it is to get to Huntsville Alabama, but given the location and clustering of AHA schools, they are relatively easy to get to...Sacred Heart, Army can both be easily accessed from major airports, smae with Holy Cross, AIC, Bentley, Niagara & Canisius (and Erie isn't impossible from Buffalo either for that matter) so it is even possible to come in for games against different opponents on a single trip.

the 12 scholarship limit is both a plus (reduces costs) and a minus (reduces quality) but I don't think you'll find AHA to be a cakewalk by any stretch. this is particularly true att the top of the conference. while there is no way to prove it, I suspect that the top of the AHA is comparable to at least the mid-level of the ECAC and the new WCHA. the evidence is circumstantial I grant you, but AHA teams have regularly aquitted themselves well in the NCAA tournament. they simply don't get blown out, and RIT went to the Frozen Four a few years ago. bottom line, I wouldn't worry too much about the level of competition. In the regular season UCONN beat Lowell, Holy Cross beat BU, Bentley I think won a couple against the ECAC, and I'm sure there were a number of others. And keep in mind that almost all of these games were on the road... The thing is, this isn't the old MAAC where teams were constantly outgunned. While the AHA isn't as deep maybe, certainly at the top the teams are pretty good.

 

[gfmorris]

Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

Someone brought up something today that I hadn't thought about: how will nWCHA schedule trips to the Alaska schools if they're only at nine teams? Also, how do you settle the disparity between Fairbanks subsidizing travel and Anchorage not? It may well make sense for some schools to add us if that means that they travel to Alaska less often, especially if the subsidies aren't there? This may be why they've been very forward about wanting a 10th team. They have to see that our dedication situation is a little different now than it was three years ago.

GFM

 

[davyd83]

Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

Someone brought up something today that I hadn't thought about: how will nWCHA schedule trips to the Alaska schools if they're only at nine teams? Also, how do you settle the disparity between Fairbanks subsidizing travel and Anchorage not? It may well make sense for some schools to add us if that means that they travel to Alaska less often, especially if the subsidies aren't there? This may be why they've been very forward about wanting a 10th team. They have to see that our dedication situation is a little different now than it was three years ago.

GFM

There will be travel subsidies from both schools.

 

[boblav1]

Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

In less-contentious news, we have a 30-game schedule for 12-13, which is more than I'd figured or really hoped for: http://www.buzzfeed.com/noahdavis/on-thin-ice-the-uncertain-future-of-alabama-hocke
GFM

According to the Mankato schedule:

Oct 12 & 13 - Minnesota State - Mankato @ UAH
http://www.msumavericks.com/schedule.aspx?path=mhockey

 

[gfmorris]

Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

According to the Mankato schedule:

Oct 12 & 13 - Minnesota State - Mankato @ UAH
http://www.msumavericks.com/schedule.aspx?path=mhockey

Yep. Mankato was already on the schedule coming into the season and was able to renew the date when the program was revived. We were not as lucky with other potential opponents. I do not have my hands on the entire schedule, and I do not think that it's my place to share what Lou told me on Wednesday afternoon, but the best word that I have for it is "ugly". BUT that is before Naples, and there are some gaps in the schedule where he and Morgee will pound pavement looking for games. We desperately need home games.

For those who didn't make it to the banquet last night: Dr. Altenkirch, Dr. Brophy, and Coach Luongo spread their good cheer from the meetings they had in Tampa at the FF. Everyone feels more positive here in April than we were feeling before. [To quote Lou, "I was optimistic before, and I'm very optimistic now."]

An interesting point in the process: I think it's no surprise that the Upper Peninsula schools are generally opposed to our inclusion in the new-look WCHA. However, they are looking to hire a new athletic director, and two of the three finalists have ties. Forrest Karr [currently at UAF] is one of them, and he has been a prominent proponent of our getting into the CCHA in the past and into the nWCHA now. Another finalist is Sean Johnson, who was one of three finalists for the UAH athletic director position that was open last spring. [They did not publicly rank the candidates, but I got the sense that Johnson came in second.] Lou stated that he's been in touch with both of them, and I think that's a positive development for us if they can become effective advocates for the program.

Y'all know full well that I want to see us in the nWCHA, so the NMU AD news made me very happy. It took the sting off of getting housed in the player auction. Tom Durnie netted $1100. It was crazy. I was in up to $500, and then they just flew past me.

GFM

 

[gfmorris]

Re: UAH Hockey 2011-12: Will Someone Break the Conference Logjam? Thanks.

There will be travel subsidies from both schools.

Is this one of those generally known things? Is it in the public somewhere? Are you saying this based off of internal sources? I'm not trying to be adversarial. I'm just curious.

GFM