Time for a change at UVM

[HockeyTeacher]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Nice job DC78-82!!!

Nice research and very well put!!

 

[olive.juice]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

There has been an incredible amount of improvement in the last 5 years.

I don't think I agree with this statement DC. Maybe some small improvements in some areas but certainly not "incredible" improvement. Anyone, including myself, can and will take statistics and make them say what they want to say to make a point. I am the first to admit this in this thread. But please, those are still some pretty sick numbers you posted. While I do not have the time to invest as some of the longtime posters and guardians of this forum do, my posts are my opinions and the stats I discuss as a whole are disgusting and support my opinion that this program is at best standing still.

That being said, yes the girls on the team are by and large adults (although some may not act that way at times) but I know for a fact that many former players over the last 6 years have attempted to "raise" these concerns however, it has fallen on very deaf ears specifically with the AD. Most of these girls were recruited and told verbally (as they still are today) to come to UVM to help "build" the program. How many more recruits will buy into this crap? The numbers that matter (and winning does matter to many) do not support a committed effort to "build" a program.

If this is what UVM chooses to do and recruit to "build" a program in the same manner and WITH THE SAME COACH, then there will be many more mediocre years of hockey at this school and that is not fair to all people who may be in the program in the future (take note current recruits) and current and former players, fans, and parents.

Lets stop with all the smokescreens...UVM needs to take heed and get rid of the coach for the sake of the program. Period. Then and only then, will they be able to truly "build" a program; and then the numbers will be noticeable and significant!

 

[olive.juice]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

There has been an incredible amount of improvement in the last 5 years.

I don't think I agree with this statement DC. Maybe some small improvements in some areas but certainly not "incredible" improvement. Anyone, including myself, can and will take statistics and make them say what they want to say to make a point. I am the first to admit this in this thread. But please, those are still some pretty sick numbers you posted. While I do not have the time to invest as some of the longtime posters and guardians of this forum do, my posts are my opinions and the stats I discuss as a whole are disgusting and support my opinion that this program is at best standing still.

That being said, yes the girls on the team are by and large adults (although some may not act that way at times) but I know for a fact that many former players over the last 6 years have attempted to "raise" these concerns however, it has fallen on very deaf ears specifically with the AD. Most of these girls were recruited and told verbally (as they still are today) to come to UVM to help "build" the program. How many more recruits will buy into this crap? The numbers that matter (and winning does matter to many) do not support a committed effort to "build" a program.

If this is what UVM chooses to do and recruit to "build" a program in the same manner and WITH THE SAME COACH, then there will be many more mediocre years of hockey at this school and that is not fair to all people who may be in the program in the future (take note current recruits) and current and former players, fans, and parents.

Lets stop with all the smokescreens...UVM needs to take heed and get rid of the coach for the sake of the program. Period. Then and only then, will they be able to truly "build" a program; and then the numbers will be noticeable and significant!

BC 3, UVM 0

More of the same and no end in site.

Spare me the shorthanded excuses. Coaches gotta adapt to the adversity and get the team ready to play.

 

[DC78-82]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

BC 3, UVM 0

More of the same and no end in site.

Spare me the shorthanded excuses. Coaches gotta adapt to the adversity and get the team ready to play.

Clearly if VT only stays within 3 goals of the # 4 team in the nation, and one of last year's Frozen Four participants, as well as the Hockey East reigning champ, and current HE 1st place team, the whole program should be scrapped. You are going to find the bad and negative regardless of what the rest of us see, so I withdraw from the conversation, and wish nothing but the best for UVM.

As one of our longtime posters says "Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference."

 

[Cali]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

"Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference."

I like that one.

 

[olive.juice]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Rumors? soon to be reality? are flying in Burlington. Stay tuned.

 

[go.cats.go]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

I've got to agree with olive and beenthere. Something needs to change. The vast majority of the team hates the head coach. They have some good talent but need stronger d recruits for the future. The turmoil really shows. Does dc78 want to change mind about the improvement now that the season is over?

 

[olive.juice]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

If anyone out there is considering UVM with the current coaching arrangement, check out these numbers:

Hockey East----------Overall----------Goals for--against---------- year

3-16-2----------4-22-6---------- 53-120 ----------2011-2012
4-13-4----------7-17-9 ----------44-77 -----------2010-2011
5-15-1----------10-22-1----------52-90------------2009-2010
4-15-2----------7-25-2-----------57-134-----------2008-2009

This program is not "building." It is an embarrassment to HE and UVM.

Change the coach ah-la Maine, Northeastern, and BU and you might get same results that they have enjoyed lately.

Mr. Bothwell, we know you read this forum. Do the right thing for the program and move on. These girls and the UVM community deserve better.

 

[Beentheredonethat]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

It's a shame for a team that had its most talented Freshman class ever according to coach Bothwell that they finished with one of the worst records in program history. To have brought in 17 new talented players the last two years to get these results points to one factor and that is coaching. I don't want to hear about how it takes time and the team has to find its way. In a year where they only needed 10 points to make the playoffs they still fell short. They go and win the season series with UNH and still let the playoffs slip away. I believe coach B. was a defenseman in the NHL. You would think based on that alone UVM would be a very good team defensively, yet they allowed more goals than any other Hockey East team with a very good goalie in net. When will the AD and the coach admit he is not the man for the job. Everyone knows that Gilligan could step in and turn the team around immediately yet he is never on the bench. DC78-82 you seem to be to far from the situation to make a good judgement call on this one. I would ask you to ask around to the current or former players who have worn the jersey and played for this man if what has been said about him is accurate or not. I will bet the house it will be 99 if not 100% accurate. Yes this man needs to go for way more reasons than I have even posted.

 

[Eagletrack]

I'll be the head coach.

 

[ARM]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

In a USCHO Forum poll, it's always a good idea to give a catch-all option for people who don't fit any of the choices. If you can't think of one, use "bacon" or "Freddy Meyer" or something just as pertinent. In this case, I'd have voted for an option of "How the heck would I know? I've never even seen them play."

 

[NUWH DogHouse]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

As a college hockey fan, and specifically a women's college hockey fan I think he should go. UVM has been a joke since I got here we are 12-2-1 against them and one of the 2 loses came in a year that we won only 7 games and finished 7th in conference while the other was a 12 win campaign that we finished 6th.

Though as a NU fan I enjoy having him there it is a bit more of a relaxing three games at least compared to the 3 each against bu, bc and UNH with PC not being a slouch either.

 

[olive.juice]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

If anyone out there is considering UVM with the current coaching arrangement, check out these numbers:

Hockey East----------Overall----------Goals for--against---------- year

3-16-2----------4-22-6---------- 53-120 ----------2011-2012
4-13-4----------7-17-9 ----------44-77 -----------2010-2011
5-15-1----------10-22-1----------52-90------------2009-2010
4-15-2----------7-25-2-----------57-134-----------2008-2009

This program is not "building." It is an embarrassment to HE and UVM.

Change the coach ah-la Maine, Northeastern, and BU and you might get same results that they have enjoyed lately.

Mr. Bothwell, we know you read this forum. Do the right thing for the program and move on. These girls and the UVM community deserve better.

Just checking in on "the poll"

This may not be the most scientific poll or in correct format for the longtime posters of this forum and maybe the poll numbers mean nothing. But the numbers that do matter are posted here and they still suck. Please, really try to understand these numbers before you vote and the only conclusion you can come to is that he must go. For the peripheral posters who know nothing of what is going on at UVM and just want to be smart-asses, just wake up. Does anyone out there have any legitimate reason for UVM to keep him? Really, the numbers above just do not show building, improvement, or commitment. Well, a commitment to mediocrity maybe.

Conclusion, he must GO!

 

[SlewFoot]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Just checking in on "the poll"

This may not be the most scientific poll or in correct format for the longtime posters of this forum and maybe the poll numbers mean nothing. But the numbers that do matter are posted here and they still suck. Please, really try to understand these numbers before you vote and the only conclusion you can come to is that he must go. For the peripheral posters who know nothing of what is going on at UVM and just want to be smart-asses, just wake up. Does anyone out there have any legitimate reason for UVM to keep him? Really, the numbers above just do not show building, improvement, or commitment. Well, a commitment to mediocrity maybe.

Conclusion, he must GO!

I just have a few comments:

1. I don't know of any AD worth his or her salt that would make a decision based on a blog or a poll started anonymously. An AD will make a decision base on numerous factors such as wins/losses, team chemistry, financial considerations, etc. Its important to know that women's hockey is a revenue loser in most schools. Financial decisions such as a buyout could be a huge factor if this is being considered. I doubt that you know all that is factored into such a decision.

2. Even if it is assumed that you mean well and you have valid points, you are not helping UVM and I would argue that you are hurting the program. As I state above your blog will not influence an AD but it IMO will reflect on UVM negatively by raising concerns in the minds of recruits and their parents.

3. Only the women on the team, the coaches and the AD should be involved in any discussion like this. If you are a former player or parent of a former player it doesn't affect you anymore and smacks of sour grapes. If you are a current player, talk to your teammates and handle this as a team. If you are a parent of a current player let your daughter handle this because she is an adult now and its good experience for her to take care of her own problems, if there are any.

4. If you are correct and Coach Bothwell reads this forum, you should at the very least identify yourself. Because one of the basic principles of this country is that an accused has the right to confront his or her accuser. Also, it would be nice for everyone to know your motivation for doing this.

5. I will not comment anymore. I did vote in the poll even though I feel strongly that my opinion doesn't matter. I have an opinion but I'll keep it to myself. I reluctantly voted as a knee jerk reaction because I don't like high tech lynchings.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

I just have a few comments:

1. I don't know of any AD worth his or her salt that would make a decision based on a blog or a poll started anonymously. An AD will make a decision base on numerous factors such as wins/losses, team chemistry, financial considerations, etc. Its important to know that women's hockey is a revenue loser in most schools. Financial decisions such as a buyout could be a huge factor if this is being considered. I doubt that you know all that is factored into such a decision.

2. Even if it is assumed that you mean well and you have valid points, you are not helping UVM and I would argue that you are hurting the program. As I state above your blog will not influence an AD but it IMO will reflect on UVM negatively by raising concerns in the minds of recruits and their parents.

3. Only the women on the team, the coaches and the AD should be involved in any discussion like this. If you are a former player or parent of a former player it doesn't affect you anymore and smacks of sour grapes. If you are a current player, talk to your teammates and handle this as a team. If you are a parent of a current player let your daughter handle this because she is an adult now and its good experience for her to take care of her own problems, if there are any.

4. If you are correct and Coach Bothwell reads this forum, you should at the very least identify yourself. Because one of the basic principles of this country is that an accused has the right to confront his or her accuser. Also, it would be nice for everyone to know your motivation for doing this.

5. I will not comment anymore. I did vote in the poll even though I feel strongly that my opinion doesn't matter. I have an opinion but I'll keep it to myself. I reluctantly voted as a knee jerk reaction because I don't like high tech lynchings.

This !......Post of the week......Should frame this one and post in all Lynch Mob threads.....Will not dignify this poll with a vote for reasons outlined above.

 

[brookyone]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Heads buried in the sand somewhere? I don't know where those who are utterly aghast by a public outcry for a coaching change...any coaching change have been hiding for them to be unaware of the reality, but the occurrence of very public, volatile and impassioned pleas or appeals for a change of coach isn't exactly uncommon throughout professional and college athletics. It's been such a widespread and common practice among sports fans of every team / sport for so long it's considered a fans right...and it just may be a legit right. That may be a matter of opinion which will vary of course. Keep in mind coaches are paid professionals...and criticism (putting it in diplomatic terms) or calling for a coaches head (less diplomatic version) comes with the territory. Yes, it's also done anonymously in many cases. Ever listen to a sports talk radio show with fan opinion call in segment? Many pro and college coaches take it on the chin, to put it extremely mildly. That's what fans do. It's probably a good thing those who don't cotton to such expressed opinions aren't Gopher football fans. You'd probably have seizures upon hearing what fans want to do to the average Gopher football coach and the AD who hired him. You don't have to agree with the opinions or even the practice of publicly expressing such opinions or commentary but fans are going to do it and you're not going to stop them. I'm not implying that I think they should be silenced either. I would also surely hope any potential recruit would be intelligent enough to be influenced by their own personal research, investigation and subsequent personal knowledge gained to separate fact from fiction per any decision...rather than what they may read in a fan forum. They should be doing that in every case shouldn't they? Even in absence of any coaching complaints from known or unknown sources.

 

[SlewFoot]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Heads buried in the sand somewhere? I don't know where those who are utterly aghast by a public outcry for a coaching change...any coaching change have been hiding for them to be unaware of the reality, but the occurrence of very public, volatile and impassioned pleas or appeals for a change of coach isn't exactly uncommon throughout professional and college athletics. It's been such a widespread and common practice among sports fans of every team / sport for so long it's considered a fans right...and it just may be a legit right. That may be a matter of opinion which will vary of course. Keep in mind coaches are paid professionals...and criticism (putting it in diplomatic terms) or calling for a coaches head (less diplomatic version) comes with the territory. Yes, it's also done anonymously in many cases. Ever listen to a sports talk radio show with fan opinion call in segment? Many pro and college coaches take it on the chin, to put it extremely mildly. That's what fans do. It's probably a good thing those who don't cotton to such expressed opinions aren't Gopher football fans. You'd probably have seizures upon hearing what fans want to do to the average Gopher football coach and the AD who hired him. You don't have to agree with the opinions or even the practice of publicly expressing such opinions or commentary but fans are going to do it and you're not going to stop them. I'm not implying that I think they should be silenced either. I would also surely hope any potential recruit would be intelligent enough to be influenced by their own personal research, investigation and subsequent personal knowledge gained to separate fact from fiction per any decision...rather than what they may read in a fan forum. They should be doing that in every case shouldn't they? Even in absence of any coaching complaints from known or unknown sources.

I won't comment on UVM anymore but I feel compelled to answer your post. First of all, because others do it doesn't make it right. Didn't your dad ever say to you, "just because everybody jumps off a cliff doesn't mean you should too". I'm really tired of all this coach bashing in the professional and big time college sports. Most of the numb nuts that comment know nothing of what they talk about. The press eats it up because it drives ratings and helps sell newspapers, etc.

Second, I think revenue losing sports are different. Winning or losing in such sports doesn't affect the bottom line of the University like it does in Football or Basketball. Therefore winning and losing, while very important, is not the only factor. In football you can fire a coach pay them $2 million to go away and hire a high profile coach and it will actually help your bottom line. An AD in a revenue losing sport has to be more conscious of a budget.

Finally women's hockey, in particular, is a small community. Parents are looking for a good place for their daughters to get an education and play hockey. I'm sure Brown lost potential recruits with the bashing that was going on last year and the year before. I know of players that did not want to play at Brown because of the bashing. Someone may think they are helping a team by trying to run a coach out of town can in fact hurt such a program.

 

[brookyone]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

I won't comment on UVM anymore but I feel compelled to answer your post. First of all, because others do it doesn't make it right. Didn't your dad ever say to you, "just because everybody jumps off a cliff doesn't mean you should too". I'm really tired of all this coach bashing in the professional and big time college sports. Most of the numb nuts that comment know nothing of what they talk about. The press eats it up because it drives ratings and helps sell newspapers, etc.

Well, I didn't say I agree or think it's acceptable because others do. I actually believe it's acceptable based on my very own, individual thought process. Even numb nuts are entitled to their opinion in America.

Second, I think revenue losing sports are different. Winning or losing in such sports doesn't affect the bottom line of the University like it does in Football or Basketball. Therefore winning and losing, while very important, is not the only factor. In football you can fire a coach pay them $2 million to go away and hire a high profile coach and it will actually help your bottom line. An AD in a revenue losing sport has to be more conscious of a budget.

I'm afraid I don't agree with a distinction based on revenue a sport generates or doesn't generate. I see success or lack thereof as what motivates the fans reaction. I believe the fan is entitled to their opinion regardless of any revenue issue.

Finally women's hockey, in particular, is a small community. Parents are looking for a good place for their daughters to get an education and play hockey. I'm sure Brown lost potential recruits with the bashing that was going on last year and the year before. I know of players that did not want to play at Brown because of the bashing. Someone may think they are helping a team by trying to run a coach out of town can in fact hurt such a program.

Don't think the blame belongs to a fans expressed opinion myself. Whether comments are true or untrue, I see the onus being on the potential student athlete to intelligently regard or disregard any material in this forum on an informed basis. Everyone should understand and be aware some things read herein will be true and some will not. This matter is more about opinion and I'm just pointing out fans are going to opine on the success or failure of coaches as they see it. I think they should have that opportunity. Off to Ridder now. I imagine I'll have to defend my comments later.

 

[DC78-82]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

This !......Post of the week......Should frame this one and post in all Lynch Mob threads.....Will not dignify this poll with a vote for reasons outlined above.

Agreed! I have abstained from further comment because I have voiced my opinion. It has just been reiterated perfectly. The only correction I would make to Slewfoot's post is that some of the comments smack of rotten olives as opposed to sour grapes

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Heads buried in the sand somewhere? I don't know where those who are utterly aghast by a public outcry for a coaching change...any coaching change have been hiding for them to be unaware of the reality, but the occurrence of very public, volatile and impassioned pleas or appeals for a change of coach isn't exactly uncommon throughout professional and college athletics. It's been such a widespread and common practice among sports fans of every team / sport for so long it's considered a fans right...and it just may be a legit right. That may be a matter of opinion which will vary of course. Keep in mind coaches are paid professionals...and criticism (putting it in diplomatic terms) or calling for a coaches head (less diplomatic version) comes with the territory. Yes, it's also done anonymously in many cases. Ever listen to a sports talk radio show with fan opinion call in segment? Many pro and college coaches take it on the chin, to put it extremely mildly. That's what fans do. It's probably a good thing those who don't cotton to such expressed opinions aren't Gopher football fans. You'd probably have seizures upon hearing what fans want to do to the average Gopher football coach and the AD who hired him. You don't have to agree with the opinions or even the practice of publicly expressing such opinions or commentary but fans are going to do it and you're not going to stop them. I'm not implying that I think they should be silenced either. I would also surely hope any potential recruit would be intelligent enough to be influenced by their own personal research, investigation and subsequent personal knowledge gained to separate fact from fiction per any decision...rather than what they may read in a fan forum. They should be doing that in every case shouldn't they? Even in absence of any coaching complaints from known or unknown sources.

The reality is that most posters on this board are parents of womens college hockey players, past, present and future. As a result most of the naysaying comes from people with "vested" interest in the program. As Slewfoot so eloquenty stated, "fans" with a "vested" interest still connected to a program should work within the confines of the program, to enact change as opposed to running a campaign on this board.