Time for a change at UVM

[glove]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

add McCloskey to the list of dinosaurs that keep losing players

interesting ,,,,

 

[Phil D. Stands]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

,

Mr. Kitty you are completely off base here. While I agree with most responses to this thread, especially the ones referring to accountability and responsibility of coaches and players, the facts regarding Bothwell's lack of any success at UVM is the point. You say you have been watching this program for a while? Really? As Gilligan has brought in quality talent for the past 6 years do you believe that 6 or 7 wins a year (out of 35 games) is acceptable? This is LACK OF SUCCESS and the simple reason to CHANGE COACHES as 3 of the bottom dwelling teams have done in the last 4 years! How long should players, parents, staff, students, the AD (good luck with this one), and maybe even Bothwell himself wait to have success. It does not take 6 years to build a program let alone have some success while taking small steps each year. This is NOT happening at UVM.

FYI on "the best female hockey player that Vermont has produced" Have you watched her play? Very talented-skilled yes, very undisciplined too, all over the ice, on and off the ice when and if she wants. This is not helping build the program. Bothwell has very little control he might have had to use her to help build the program. She will leave unless there is a new coach. Take this to the bank. Trust me on this too, Bothwell does not demonstrate passion for much, certainly not improving and winning! Many wish he would be on the next bus. High character, well, won't go there now. Just do not hold your breath while predicting success in the next 4 years. Well maybe, certainly with a coaching change this will happen.

For a Vermont opinion, I'd say that UVM does not march to the same beat as the rest of the conference and that the more cosmopolitan and big city "push for profits" is not the kind of model that works for UVM women's hockey. It would be nice if it showcased more Vermont talent, but they have Norwich and St Mikes and Castleton to do that. They aren't going to win it all and the coach has stated he would like to qualify for the playoffs (not the loftiest of goals), so if you listened while you signed then you shouldnt be so strident. There is not the alumni push from a BU or BC to win, win, win and the national championships on the men's side to meet that expectation. We take it a little slower here in Vermont and appreciate what we have a bit more. The fact that the AD and the coach are invested in stability and steady sustainable growth means a lot more than this quarter's sales or pumping up the profits to compete with the bigger guys when this niche satisfies the local fans, the university and the alumnae. Folks come here for vacation and a different pace -- is it a wonder that the work ethic isn't as NY or Boston as you'd like? Doesn't make it bad -- just different.

PS -- nice weekend against Conn with two ties -- all those ties last year show that they are playing team tight -- perhaps if the coach didn't run 4 balanced lines and went with 2 stacked ones, he'd break through more often

 

[Mr. Kitty]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Usually I stick to the D3 side of things but saw the title and was interested.......Just a question to throw out there if there ever is a change av UVM, but what does anyone out there think about Mark Bolding of Norwich getting a D1 shot at a local school like UVM.......this guy has been very successful very quickly at Norwich and all the players I have talked to love to play for him. I knew him as a player and have watched him since the beginning as a coach and I think this guy could get it done at any level. What are the thoughts on his chances if it ever happens???? Take it as a break in the "Bothwell bash" if you will...........

Intriguing idea, but unlikely. More likely he can sign on to one of those programs that likes the revolving door like those OJ is advocating for.

UVM has had a "country club" reputation for the administration and faculty, and that is shown by its recent loss of their president who stepped down, but wants to stay around and teach there (and they are letting him). So, it doesn't seem the country club has changed much and with the inter-regnum you probably can't expect any more changes or disruption of the AD/coach bond/friendship. No mutatis mutandis at UVM. If Bothwell were to leave, it would be to become the AD, going on the school's record.

UVM for a student still is trying to shake its party-school status which was up there up until about 5-6 years ago. So, some of the scholar-athletes may be either influenced by the campus still and some may choose to come for the atmosphere as opposed to the competition.

 

[Bauer86]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

If a team's goal isn't to win a championship every year then what's the point of playing? Isn't that why teams invest in players? to win? If vermont is just more "laid-back" and "slower" as it was put...then why are they investing all of those scholarships and money into that program? so they dont win? also the series against ct this weekend was one of the most disgraceful games ive ever watched online (great clarity on the live-feed by the way..kudos to vt for that). hits from vt after the whistle...huertas tossed from the game...just dirty disgusting play from vt this weekend...its not what you like to see in hockey east play

 

[Mr. Kitty]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

If a team's goal isn't to win a championship every year then what's the point of playing? Isn't that why teams invest in players? to win? If vermont is just more "laid-back" and "slower" as it was put...then why are they investing all of those scholarships and money into that program? so they dont win? also the series against ct this weekend was one of the most disgraceful games ive ever watched online (great clarity on the live-feed by the way..kudos to vt for that). hits from vt after the whistle...huertas tossed from the game...just dirty disgusting play from vt this weekend...its not what you like to see in hockey east play

I have to admit that UVM did NOT distinguish itself with the less-than-sporting play. Late in the second, a Conn gal got whacked in the face with a stick on a face-off and nothing was seen or called although you could clearly see it on the feed at the time (yes, it was a great feed).

 

[OneTimer]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

The UVM men's team is also in last place.

 

[DC78-82]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

The UVM men's team is also in last place.

Vermont's female counterparts are not in last place. They are tied for 6th. It's early yet - plenty of Hockey East games yet to play. Both Vermont and New Hampshire are struggling, but both have the youngest squads.

Here is a breakdown of league standings and class composition:
.........................Games Played.....Points.......FR.......SO......JR......SR.......Total.........%FR

1...........BC................10...............15.........6.........6.........7.........8.........27 .........22 One Junior redshirted.
2...........NU................10...............15.........9.........6.........6.........3 ........24 .........37.5 One Senior is a second year Grad Student
3...........PC................11...............13.........7.........5.........4.........7.........23..........30
4...........BU.................8................10.........4.........6.........9.........5 ........24 .........16 One Freshman redshirted.
5...........ME................10................9..........8.........4.........4.........6.........22..........36
6...........CT.................9.................6..........6.........7.........4.........3 ........20 .........30 One Junior redshirted.
7...........VT................10................6.........10.........6.........3.........2.........21..........47
8...........NH.................8.................2..........8..........5.........6.........2........21..........38 A 9th FR is no longer with the team

UNH is in a self professed rebuilding period, while Vermont is in a quest to build the program, as is Maine. I'm not sure what CT's philosophy is, but just for kicks, in a non scientific attempt to see where the teams stand relative to age, I assigned values to each year of school per player.

FR=1 1 FR=1 EQ pts
SO=2 1 SO= 2 EQ pts
JR=3 1 JR = 3 EQ pts
SR=4 1 SR = 4 EQ pts
with an added year per redshirt, regardless of the reason, as observation is a value added experience. Call this number the Experience Quotient (EQ)

Here is the ranking in Hockey East based on "EQ"
.........Team......EQ
1.........BC.........72
2.........BU.........64
3.........PC.........57
4.........NU.........52
..........ME.........52
6.........CT.........44
..........NH..........44
8.........VT.........39

While this is obviously imprecise for predicting future success, and does nothing to account for years off for centralization, Olympic and / or National Team experience, (which would put the top even further ahead of the pack) the standings aren't too far off based on experience, which would lead me to conclude that it's not quite time to throw the coaches in the bottom half into the ranks of the unemployed, particularly since they admit to building or rebuilding. It isn't even semester break yet. There are a lot of talented freshman who have likely put hockey first most of their lives, and who now have to learn a different balance and a whole lot of time management.

Even when you add all the right ingredients together, you still need to wait for the mixture to become jello.

 

[ARM]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Here is a breakdown of league standings and class composition:
.........................Games Played.....Points.......FR.......SO......JR......SR.......Total.........%FR

1...........BC................10...............15.........6.........6.........7.........8.........27 .........22 One Junior redshirted.
2...........NU................10...............15.........9.........6.........6.........3 ........24 .........37.5 One Senior is a second year Grad Student
3...........PC................11...............13.........7.........5.........4.........7.........23..........30
4...........BU.................8................10.........4.........6.........9.........5 ........24 .........16 One Freshman redshirted.
5...........ME................10................9..........8.........4.........4.........6.........22..........36
6...........CT.................9.................6..........6.........7.........4.........3 ........20 .........30 One Junior redshirted.
7...........VT................10................6.........10.........6.........3.........2.........21..........28.5
8...........NH.................8.................2..........8..........5.........6.........2........21..........28 A 9th FR is no longer with the team

Either there are some typos in the %FR column, or I'm not understanding this. If UNH has 8 of 21 players as Frosh, then I'd expect a 38 in the last column. Simillarly, Vermont should be more like 47.6. Or am I just confused?

 

[DC78-82]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Either there are some typos in the %FR column, or I'm not understanding this. If UNH has 8 of 21 players as Frosh, then I'd expect a 38 in the last column. Simillarly, Vermont should be more like 47.6. Or am I just confused?

I grabbed the wrong number in a couple of instances I guess. In my effort to save the planet, I used a small piece of scrap paper and my numbers got literally crunched

Thanks for paying attention. It makes my inexperience theory work even more convincingly

 

[Bauer86]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Just for everyone's information...the high stick to the face (also followed by the uvm player shooting conn player's stick into the corner away from her...great sportsmanlike conduct by the way)...was vermont's finest Amanda pelkey. great to see what great leadership shes bringing to the organization. vt should be proud of the show they put on this weekend

 

[DC78-82]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Just for everyone's information...the high stick to the face (also followed by the uvm player shooting conn player's stick into the corner away from her...great sportsmanlike conduct by the way)...was vermont's finest Amanda pelkey. great to see what great leadership shes bringing to the organization. vt should be proud of the show they put on this weekend

And you should be equally proud of your "sportsmanship". It is the official's job primarily, and then the coaching staff's job to judge the player and the incident. There are at least two sides to every story. I wasn't at the game, but if I look at the box score, I certainly don't think I'd be able to single out one player. It looks as if that game was fraught with contention from the first drop of the puck. This was the second of two tightly contested games between two teams that really need HE points. I can see how the intensity level gets ratcheted up to the point where players are taking it to the limit, and that's when it's the officials job to keep it under control and (re-)set the tone

I don't understand why, after so many years of Vermont being a questionable contender for HE playoffs at best, there are people who think one recruiting class (or in this instance, one recruit). are expected to be either perfect, or the be all end all for a whole team.



1st Period
CON-1 Kiana Nauheim (2-Interference) VER 0x1 4:35
VER-1 Emily Walsh (2-Interference) CON 0x1 4:38
CON-2 Maggie Walsh (2-Tripping) VER 0x2 9:46
VER-2 Amanda Pelkey (2-Roughing) CON 0x2 10:54
VER-3 Chelsea Rapin (2-Cross-Checking) CON 1x3
VER-4 Greer Vogl (2-High-Sticking) CON 1x4 16:10
CON-3 Maude Blain (2-Tripping) VER 0x3 17:30

2nd Period
CON-4 Kayla Campero (2-Cross-Checking) VER 0x4 4:40
VER-5 Meghan Huertas (2-Tripping) CON 2x5 5:47
CON-5 Emily Snodgrass (2-Slashing) 6:36
VER-6 Kailey Nash (2-Roughing) 6:36
VER-7 Meghan Huertas (2-Checking) CON 2x6 10:25
VER-8 Kailey Nash (2-Roughing) CON 2x7 14:21
3
3rd Period
CON-6 Kiana Nauheim (2-Interference) VER 0x5 6:17
VER-9 Chelsea Rapin (2-Interference) CON 2x8 8:45
CON-7 Sami Evelyn (2-Slashing) VER 0x6 4:04.2
VER-10 Meghan Huertas (2-Charging) 4:57
VER-11 Meghan Huertas (10-Misconduct) 4:57

I have no ties to VT Women's hockey, just on the outside looking in, but it sure seems like a few people have axes to grind. I guess Brown should be relieved.

 

[Bauer86]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

if you didn't see the game how can you comment on that specific play? as someone that has been following hockey east play for a few years now, i can comment that vt was never a dirty team in the past..so many freshman in this class with no one to control them. im looking forward to the second half of the season

 

[DC78-82]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

if you didn't see the game how can you comment on that specific play? as someone that has been following hockey east play for a few years now, i can comment that vt was never a dirty team in the past..so many freshman in this class with no one to control them. im looking forward to the second half of the season

Assuming you're referring to me. I didn't comment on one specific play. I commented that in a game where there were 18 total penalties called, YOU singled out one player who got one penalty at the halfway mark of the first, when there were other players who got called for multiple infractions, some of them more egregious than the call you referred to. Just wondering what your agenda is.

I have been around Hockey East since long before it's inception. You could say since the beginning of time as it pertains to the women's side. When I saw your comment, I went to the box score, wondering what happened. I've seen VT live once this year, and watched 4 or 5 games online, and have not seen a trend toward unsportsmanlike play or unnecessary roughness or stick infractions.

The box scores tells a tale of a game in which both sides were playing hard, got called for it many times, and where one player appears to have crossed the line in OT, and was removed from the game, but not the one you apparently have a grudge against.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Just for everyone's information.......crap deleted.......

Just for your information, posting that was absolutely classless. If you have ever played this game before, you would know that this is a game of emotions, and sometimes stuff happens within the confines of the game that you are not privy to or aware off. As DC said, when a game gets out of control, there is usually at least three sides to the story. No need to single out one player. Nough Said. !

 

[Hux]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Just for everyone's information...the high stick to the face (also followed by the uvm player shooting conn player's stick into the corner away from her...great sportsmanlike conduct by the way)...was vermont's finest Amanda pelkey. great to see what great leadership shes bringing to the organization. vt should be proud of the show they put on this weekend

Might have something to do with UConn crashing the net and hacking at the goalie, and the VT players laying lumber to prevent it from happening again

 

[D2D]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Might have something to do with UConn crashing the net and hacking at the goalie, and the VT players laying lumber to prevent it from happening again

I don't know what happened, but I will say that there is NEVER a good excuse for intentionally "laying lumber" on an opponent. If you want to defend your goalie, fine, but do it without using your stick as a weapon. Again, I'm not saying that it happened here, because I wasn't there nor did I see any video, but if in fact that is what occurred the offending player deserves to be called out for it.

 

[EastFan1]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Is the incident archived or posted online somewhere?

 

[DC78-82]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Is the incident archived or posted online somewhere?

UVM's video highlights

This doesn't show much beyond the goals, and although UVM webcasts all the home games at no charge (thanks to their Alumni Association), I'm not sure if they're archived.

 

[DC78-82]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

I realize that the video has been edited for highlights, but just from that it looks like there was some good shoving on both sides. The UVM celebration after their 1st goal was a bit of extended! I think I blushed a little!

 

[ARM]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

The UVM celebration after their 1st goal was a bit of extended! I think I blushed a little!

Well, it was a game-tying goal in the final minute. Did it look from the video like the UConn player tipped it over her own goalie? The Vermont player in front didn't react like she'd gotten a piece of it.

I agree with you; a lot of hotly contested action all around, including some contact with the goalie. Hit any goalie enough times, and there isn't a team in the country that won't use their sticks to get the point across that future incidents won't be tolerated.