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The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)

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Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)

And what gives those hard metals any value beyond their limited technological uses?
This one is easy: women give the metals value by putting out when guys buy them jewelry that contain said metals.
Part of the problem in the EU is that countries like Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Iceland and Greece have no control over the money supply or monetary policy. Deflation is as bad for an economy as high inflation, it is part of what made the Great Depression as bad as it was.
It's their own ****ing fault for joining the EU in the first place. They knew the rules, and they joined. Now they gotta deal with the consequences. Either be a member of the EU and practice some fiscal restraint, or go it alone and don't - and have a worthless currency.

The only thing we've managed to prove with fiat currency is that we suck at controlling the money supply - at least since the early '80s when we had a Fed that was willing to raise rates as much as necessary to stop inflation. That body hasn't had a backbone since.
 
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Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)

Qualifying it or not, gold is not fiat money.

To the extent its value is not based on its inherent underlying value as a malleable industrial metal but instead a belief that others will accept it at an inflated market value simply because that's what people agree it's worth, it is.
 
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Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)

I repeat: its real value is dictated by what women are willing to do for/to/with you when you give them things containing said metal. :p

"Industrial use" barely scratches the surface.
 
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)

Found on the web:

Dear Creditors:

This is to inform you that as of August 2, 2011, I will be temporarily suspending all payments on my current obligations.

Unfortunately this has become necessary because, based on my current contracts, agreements and other necessary spending, I will run out of cash by August 1. While in the past, I have gone to financial institutions or – if necessary – friends and/or family to secure loans in order to stay current, ‘greater minds than mine’ have informed me that these actions have been irresponsible. Even though I have already assumed these obligations, I am advised that I should suspend paying all of my bills until such time as I have formulated a plan that will reduce my level of future spending to the point that outside financing will not be necessary.

This may take a while, as the vast majority of my expenses are for necessities; rent, food, clothing, transportation, health insurance, assault weapons, ammunition, etc. Then, of course, there’s things like phone and internet. While some I have asked feel these are unnecessary luxuries, others tell me they are essential. While I think getting rid of them entirely might actually do more harm than good, as it would greatly hamper any efforts to secure full-time employment, I’ll need to figure out a way to cut these costs.

As for luxuries such as ‘going out once in a while’, I’ve discontinued that – but as I had already cut back significantly, the present savings are minimal.

I had thought about asking my employers to pay more for my services in order to increase my revenue to a level where I might — along with cutting back on non-essentials such as meat and fresh fruits and vegetables – be able to make ends meet. But again, I have been advised that revenue is not my problem – spending is.

So, since it would be irresponsible of me to pay current obligations and necessary expenses until I have a fiscally responsible plan to avoid future debt in place, as stated above, I will suspend all payments effective August 2nd. I am unable to tell you at present when the new plan will be in place, but remain confident it won’t be long, as by August 5th or 6th I imagine I’ll be getting pretty hungry.

In the event you don’t hear from me by August 10th, I have enclosed contact information for the executor of my estate.

I remain confident that this necessary action will in no way impact our future business relationships, particularly in areas such as the fees and interest charged on my accounts.
 
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)

To the extent its value is not based on its inherent underlying value as a malleable industrial metal but instead a belief that others will accept it at an inflated market value simply because that's what people agree it's worth, it is.

Sorry, I'm not buying it. You can try and redefine fiat money all you want, but gold still won't be fiat money.
 
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)

Sorry, I'm not buying it. You can try and redefine fiat money all you want, but gold still won't be fiat money.

Gold is an inflexible standard, fiat ( “let it be done”) is that based on faith. You can’t create more gold. Not sure why there is an argument over gold backed currency vs fiat - the two are different although their value is derived from faith. That is merely mincing words.

It should be noted that the US had a long period were there was no inflation in the 1700’s and 1800s. During wartime periods were there was additional spending and inflation, but we saw inflation figures normalize thereafter. It wasn’t until the federal reserve was established in 1913 that inflation took a new trajectory. Since Nixon axed the gold standard, inflation has been much more significant. My life’s baseline is that of such inflation so I don’t even notice, whereas someone born 200 years ago today would be in shock and awe. It should also be noted that currency has lost some 97% of its value since the fed came to be.
 
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)

Stars create gold via supernovas, so it's not like the gold supply is finite. :D
 
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)

Reports are we're headed for the double-dip. That means the budget will be even more strained. The good news is the current cutting plan slashes taxes for the job creators while increasing them for grandma and grandpa. That will act as stimulus.
 
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)

It should also be noted that currency has lost some 97% of its value since the fed came to be.

Which doesn't matter so long as you don't leave your money sitting under your mattress.
 
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)

Which doesn't matter so long as you don't leave your money sitting under your mattress.

Given the current interest rates putting it into a savings account or even a CD is about the same thing.
 
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)

Which is why you don't put your money in a CD at Bank of America.

The high yield checking ac**** at my credit union offers 3.5% return. It'd be 4.5% if I had a mortgage or auto loan.

edit: Ha! I'm just going to let that typo stay there. :D
 
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)

Stars create gold via supernovas, so it's not like the gold supply is finite. :D

You don't even need that, all you need is a vat of mercury-196 isotopes and nuclear reactor or just a some mercury and a particle collider.
 
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)

Which doesn't matter so long as you don't leave your money sitting under your mattress.

so its okay to devalue a currency into oblivion? The average person has coped in many ways in order to protect their wealth and acquire it. Women started to work, people started to work longer hours, people took on massive debt, and people started putting equity into their housing. In 2008, all of this obviously came undone. Thanks to the rapid devaluation of our money, people are forced to take on debt and invest in instruments they probably are unaware of how they work. Graham suggested in Intelligent investor that most people should probably not invest in stocks. yet, we have cheeky commercials today that advocate rapid buying/selling as investing. Point here is that people don't know what they are doing, but feel the need to protect their wealth by doing 'something'.
 
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)

Wha?

If you want to talk about rapid devaluation and oblivion, ask a Peruvian or Brazilian over the age of 30 (annual rates > 1000%). Inflation in this country has been under control for decades.
 
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)

Thanks to the rapid devaluation of our money, people are forced to take on debt and invest in instruments they probably are unaware of how they work. Graham suggested in Intelligent investor that most people should probably not invest in stocks. yet, we have cheeky commercials today that advocate rapid buying/selling as investing. Point here is that people don't know what they are doing, but feel the need to protect their wealth by doing 'something'.


Considering personal savings is way down and personal debt is way up, the devaluation of the currency is probably a godsend for most people. :(
 
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)

Wha?

If you want to talk about rapid devaluation and oblivion, ask a Peruvian or Brazilian over the age of 30 (annual rates > 1000%). Inflation in this country has been under control for decades.

Well while we are at it, we can state that our crime in border towns in texas due to Mexican drug cartels is acceptable since African warlords are doing worse things in their country. In order to strive to be the best, one doesn’t compare themselves to suboptimal performers.

no disagreement that things could be much, much worse. I don’t take for granted the life I have in America and enjoy it much more than my pessimistic posts on USCHO might indicate. However, I always strive for my personal best and would prefer that our country does the same.
 
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)

so its okay to devalue a currency into oblivion? The average person has coped in many ways in order to protect their wealth and acquire it. Women started to work, people started to work longer hours, people took on massive debt, and people started putting equity into their housing. In 2008, all of this obviously came undone. Thanks to the rapid devaluation of our money, people are forced to take on debt and invest in instruments they probably are unaware of how they work. Graham suggested in Intelligent investor that most people should probably not invest in stocks. yet, we have cheeky commercials today that advocate rapid buying/selling as investing. Point here is that people don't know what they are doing, but feel the need to protect their wealth by doing 'something'.

I fail to see how taking on massive debt is helping people aquire and protect wealth? That debt was spent on something and has to be paid back eventually and it will hinder the ability to aquire and build wealth going forward.

I fail to see how inflation forces people to take on debt. Inflation incourages the spending of money today (because it will be worth less tomorrow), but the interest rate on debt should negate the effect of time on the value of money.

It also doesn't force people to invest in financial instruments that they don't understand. People invest in financial devices that they don't understand because of greed, not inflation.

I also have zero sympathy for people who take finacial "advice" for a commercial. People don't make stupid financial choices because of inflation, they make stupid financial choices because they are greedy and ignore risk. The 1700 and 1800 were full of people who lost everything in speculative land deals, inflation wasn't the cause of those decisions, greed and stupidity was.
 
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)

Conversely, argue the topic and not small semantics. Rule 1 of poor debaters; attack the messenger and not the issue. This is your style.

Argue that the dollar has indeed lost 97% of its value since 1913. (Figure below) Don’t bring up BLS inflation numbers. Argue that people have struggled with storing their wealth and turned to debt, housing, and other risky forms of investing their money. Don’t bring up my argument style. Its irrelevant. Stick to the point.

This semantics game is boring. You argue about gold being fiat rather than the gold standard. You argue about BLS 2% inflation rather than the devaluation. This is your game. It’s the only game you can play. Problem is, no one is playing it. I am at work, and really have no interested in it.

If you want to discuss my points, fine. If you don’t like them, just ignore them.

purchasepower.jpg
 
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)

I fail to see how taking on massive debt is helping people aquire and protect wealth? That debt was spent on something and has to be paid back eventually and it will hinder the ability to aquire and build wealth going forward.

I fail to see how inflation forces people to take on debt. Inflation incourages the spending of money today (because it will be worth less tomorrow), but the interest rate on debt should negate the effect of time on the value of money.

It also doesn't force people to invest in financial instruments that they don't understand. People invest in financial devices that they don't understand because of greed, not inflation.

I also have zero sympathy for people who take finacial "advice" for a commercial. People don't make stupid financial choices because of inflation, they make stupid financial choices because they are greedy and ignore risk. The 1700 and 1800 were full of people who lost everything in speculative land deals, inflation wasn't the cause of those decisions, greed and stupidity was.

I should have been more careful and stated that debt was a part of, not a result of inflation. Debt was a coping mechanism for the middle class to get by, and more households incur debt than they used too. Things like college cost more today , thus people must incur debt to cope and afford it.
 
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