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Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)
Even the boomers may not get what they want, at least for very long, as things are going to run aground well before a lot of them have passed on.
Even the boomers may not get what they want, at least for very long, as things are going to run aground well before a lot of them have passed on.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)
"Flying is simple. You just throw yourself at the ground and miss."
"Flying is simple. You just throw yourself at the ground and miss."
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)
Even the Ryan plan gives the status quo to those 55 or older while taking a pitchfork to the next generation. Even if it runs aground the boomers will get whatever they want. They always have and they always will.
Even the Ryan plan gives the status quo to those 55 or older while taking a pitchfork to the next generation. Even if it runs aground the boomers will get whatever they want. They always have and they always will.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)
No, it isn't. The only reason it fails is the people managing it fark up to the point that people stop believing it will be readily accepted.
The dollar is not going to fail, if it ever does, simply because it's fiat currency. It'll fail if and only if people don't believe others place a value upon it.
No, it isn't. The only reason it fails is the people managing it fark up to the point that people stop believing it will be readily accepted.
The dollar is not going to fail, if it ever does, simply because it's fiat currency. It'll fail if and only if people don't believe others place a value upon it.
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)
the dollar IS Fiat currency. No hard metals back it.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)
Another one of the great financial decisions made through the years. Almost rivals the decisions that led to the housing crisis. Not quite, but close.
Another one of the great financial decisions made through the years. Almost rivals the decisions that led to the housing crisis. Not quite, but close.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)
Yeah...I never said otherwise. I said it wouldn't fail simply because of that fact.
Yeah...I never said otherwise. I said it wouldn't fail simply because of that fact.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)
You do realize gold is basically a fiat currency too, right? At least to the extent people place value on it above and beyond its inherent industrial worth?
Also, the Bretton Woods accord happened because there isn't enough gold and silver to back the world's wealth. The total value of all gold ever mined is worth something like half of the U.S.'s annual GDP. The annual GDP of PLanet Earth is on the order of $75 trillion. The U.S.'s annual GDP is approximately $14.5 trillion. The value of all gold ever mined is approximately $6 trillion.
How are you supposed to back a currency without enough metal to do so? And why in god's name would you want to?
You do realize gold is basically a fiat currency too, right? At least to the extent people place value on it above and beyond its inherent industrial worth?
Also, the Bretton Woods accord happened because there isn't enough gold and silver to back the world's wealth. The total value of all gold ever mined is worth something like half of the U.S.'s annual GDP. The annual GDP of PLanet Earth is on the order of $75 trillion. The U.S.'s annual GDP is approximately $14.5 trillion. The value of all gold ever mined is approximately $6 trillion.
How are you supposed to back a currency without enough metal to do so? And why in god's name would you want to?
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Almington
Blood Boiling with Rage and Hate
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)
And what gives those hard metals any value beyond their limited technological uses?
All money does is facilitate trade and provides a way of measuring the relative value of goods allowing society to move beyond the basic barter system.
Part of the problem in the EU is that countries like Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Iceland and Greece have no control over the money supply or monetary policy. Deflation is as bad for an economy as high inflation, it is part of what made the Great Depression as bad as it was.
Edit: unofan beat me to it (and did a better job)
And what gives those hard metals any value beyond their limited technological uses?
All money does is facilitate trade and provides a way of measuring the relative value of goods allowing society to move beyond the basic barter system.
Part of the problem in the EU is that countries like Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Iceland and Greece have no control over the money supply or monetary policy. Deflation is as bad for an economy as high inflation, it is part of what made the Great Depression as bad as it was.
Edit: unofan beat me to it (and did a better job)
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Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)
The main advantage of backing a currency with some rare substance is a government can't just create more out of thin air.
I think we should back our currency with people. Then we might take better care of them.
China still wins, though.
Or there's this.
The main advantage of backing a currency with some rare substance is a government can't just create more out of thin air.
I think we should back our currency with people. Then we might take better care of them.
China still wins, though.
Or there's this.
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unofan
Well-known member
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)
That's also one of the main disadvantages of doing so, in as much as gov'ts lose a monetary policy tool and the economy can become subject to external shocks without any means to counter such a shock.
So instead of putting the economy into the hands of the Fed, you're putting it into the hands of whoever lucks into the next big gold deposit. Or the villain from Die Hard 3.
That's also one of the main disadvantages of doing so, in as much as gov'ts lose a monetary policy tool and the economy can become subject to external shocks without any means to counter such a shock.
So instead of putting the economy into the hands of the Fed, you're putting it into the hands of whoever lucks into the next big gold deposit. Or the villain from Die Hard 3.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)
You realize the same folks running the Fed are the same guys that didn't know what a CDO was or that you could buy a credit default swap on a sub-prime mortgage bond?
Collapse is inevitable.
You realize the same folks running the Fed are the same guys that didn't know what a CDO was or that you could buy a credit default swap on a sub-prime mortgage bond?
Collapse is inevitable.
Almington
Blood Boiling with Rage and Hate
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)
That's the standard Scooby optimism that we have all come to appreciate!
That's the standard Scooby optimism that we have all come to appreciate!
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
unh_hockey
pain is temporary pride is forever
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)
True, and it is faith that will either make or break the dollar depending on how bad inflation is. If we get to a point where money can’t even buy anything, people will put their faith in another form of exchange. Is this what we are seeing with a strong upwards march in gold? I am inclined to believe its still a bubble but a lot of skeptics don’t.
True, and it is faith that will either make or break the dollar depending on how bad inflation is. If we get to a point where money can’t even buy anything, people will put their faith in another form of exchange. Is this what we are seeing with a strong upwards march in gold? I am inclined to believe its still a bubble but a lot of skeptics don’t.
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)
Definitions of fiat money generally speak of it as a medium of exchange only, having no intrinsic value. Gold certainly has intrinsic value, so I don't think it is legitimate to call gold a fiat currency.
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)
It seems like we have about 3 different conversations going on: inflation, fiat, and exchange. The thing about gold is that it *is* a fixed medium of exchange. Thus the whole gold standard thing.
But the real conversation seems to be about the benefits of hard currency in fighting inflation. Whether inflation is our main problem, and whether inflation is what's driving up the price of gold are separate questions. (I'd say the answer to both is no).
It seems like we have about 3 different conversations going on: inflation, fiat, and exchange. The thing about gold is that it *is* a fixed medium of exchange. Thus the whole gold standard thing.
But the real conversation seems to be about the benefits of hard currency in fighting inflation. Whether inflation is our main problem, and whether inflation is what's driving up the price of gold are separate questions. (I'd say the answer to both is no).
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unofan
Well-known member
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)
First off, thanks for cutting off the 2nd half of that quote, where I qualify that statement. But I still reiterate that here.
Gold's intrinsic value is nowhere near what it is actually priced at as a hedge against inflation; and in the context where people want to use it in lieu of the dollar, it's value would be even less tied to its intrinsic value.
First off, thanks for cutting off the 2nd half of that quote, where I qualify that statement. But I still reiterate that here.
Gold's intrinsic value is nowhere near what it is actually priced at as a hedge against inflation; and in the context where people want to use it in lieu of the dollar, it's value would be even less tied to its intrinsic value.
Re: The USCHO Budget Thread (warning: political)
Qualifying it or not, gold is not fiat money.
Qualifying it or not, gold is not fiat money.