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The States: Where We Wish Texas Would Secede Already

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SJHovey said:
Yeah, I get it. It's always dangerous to lump everyone together, although I don't think I'm alone here in that regard. That said, I find amusing the whole lament, "if I could just kill capitalism and corporations, and eliminate the need for my friends and I to work, we'd have so much more time to play video games together."
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I'm not arguing against Corporations or Capitalism in any way. You should know that. My problem is with the complete dereliction of duty on the guardrail side. We have a lack of good laws, a lack of oversight of those laws, and a complete lack of enforcement of any laws that we may have.

That's what is failing. Not Capitalism in general.
 
Two Tennessee state lawmakers have authored a bill to rename a section of local Nashville road "President Donald Trump Boulevard." Trump has no ties to that section of street, nor to the City of Nashville.

Just why is this noteworthy then? Because the section of road the lawmakers are proposing was *just* named "Rep. John Lewis Way,' in 2020 after his death, and was officially dedicated in 2021. That stretch of street highlighted where John Lewis started his "good trouble," where he famously started busting segregation in diners along the road, and where "Freedom Riders" boarded busses during the 1961 Civil Rights marches.

The cruelty is their point.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/...who-want-to-rename-john-lewis-way-after-trump

Also, I'm pretty sure that article is now Illegal in Florida schools.
 
ScoobyDoo said:
I'm not arguing against Corporations or Capitalism in any way. You should know that. My problem is with the complete dereliction of duty on the guardrail side. We have a lack of good laws, a lack of oversight of those laws, and a complete lack of enforcement of any laws that we may have.

That's what is failing. Not Capitalism in general.
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Well said. It’s telling the other side has nothing to say except durrhurrr you guys buy stuff . Lol
 
ScoobyDoo said:
I'm not arguing against Corporations or Capitalism in any way. You should know that. My problem is with the complete dereliction of duty on the guardrail side. We have a lack of good laws, a lack of oversight of those laws, and a complete lack of enforcement of any laws that we may have.

That's what is failing. Not Capitalism in general.
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Regulations? Oversight? Taxes? What are you, some kind of lazy teenage stoner who doesn't want to work?!
 
Capitalism is still inherently a problem because the people who do the work, make the product, and use the product don't own the materials, the patents, the fabrication infrastructure, the financing institutions, and the distribution system. This creates an inhumane condition in which the people doing all the work, and for whom the work is done, are dependent on an independent third party who has a massive power differential and can impose their will to the detriment of workers and consumers.

That is capitalism, and that is bad, so capitalism is bad.

Happily, there are many ways to have a free market system without capitalism. The free market works great as long as you control it. It is exactly like electricity -- you use the free market to organize and direct energy to do work, but you don't reify it as its own end. Nobody says "we can't have safety devices on electronics because electricity is its own good." It's just another tool.
 
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Kepler said:
Capitalism is still inherently a problem because the people who do the work, make the product, and use the product don't own the materials, the patents, the fabrication infrastructure, the financing institutions, and the distribution system. This creates an inhumane condition in which the people doing all the work, and for whom the work is done, are dependent on an independent third party who has a massive power differential and can impose their will to the detriment of workers and consumers.

That is capitalism, and that is bad, so capitalism is bad.

Happily, there are many ways to have a free market system without capitalism. The free market works great as long as you control it. It is exactly like electricity -- you use the free market to organize and direct energy to do work, but you don't reify it as its own end. Nobody says "we can't have safety devices on electronics because electricity is its own good." It's just another tool.
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Free markets are just the open exchange of goods. It's capitalism that leads to the production of those goods. Without capitalism, you're just swapping two goats for a cow in your free market.
 
SJHovey said:
Free markets are just the open exchange of goods. It's capitalism that leads to the production of those goods. Without capitalism, you're just swapping two goats for a cow in your free market.
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No, capitalism is financing of production with independent investors. Production can be financed in other ways (government, anarcho-syndicalism, workers unions, granges, consumer unions). Independent financing sucks because it separates the interests of the financiers from the producers and consumers. Move financing power to the latter pair and the former is an unnecessary parasite. It is directly analogous to the persistence of a feudal aristocracy after they were displaced by technological and economic advances. We have now technologically and economically advanced to where the financial sector is an atavism that just immiserates the majority.

I still want you to keep whatever sweatshop you run. I assume from your statements that in addition to being the owner you are also the primary worker and producer of real value. That's A-OK with me, you're golden in my new world order.

I love Main Street. Wall Street has to die.
 
Kepler said:
No, capitalism is financing of production with independent investors. Production can be financed in other ways (government, anarcho-syndicalism, workers unions, granges, consumer unions). Independent financing sucks because it separates the interests of the financiers from the producers and consumers. Move financing power to the latter pair and the former is an unnecessary parasite. It is directly analogous to the persistence of a feudal aristocracy after they were displaced by technological and economic advances. We have now technologically and economically advanced to where the financial sector is an atavism that just immiserates the majority.

I still want you to keep whatever sweatshop you run. I assume from your statements that in addition to being the owner you are also the primary worker and producer of real value. That's A-OK with me, you're golden in my new world order.

I love Main Street. Wall Street has to die.
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The problem is, when we tried letting workers unions serve as the financiers, all we got out of the deal were some crappy Vegas casinos.
 
Kepler said:
No, capitalism is financing of production with independent investors. Production can be financed in other ways (government, anarcho-syndicalism, workers unions, granges, consumer unions). Independent financing sucks because it separates the interests of the financiers from the producers and consumers. Move financing power to the latter pair and the former is an unnecessary parasite. It is directly analogous to the persistence of a feudal aristocracy after they were displaced by technological and economic advances. We have now technologically and economically advanced to where the financial sector is an atavism that just immiserates the majority.

I still want you to keep whatever sweatshop you run. I assume from your statements that in addition to being the owner you are also the primary worker and producer of real value. That's A-OK with me, you're golden in my new world order.

I love Main Street. Wall Street has to die.
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All joking about Vegas casinos aside, you are right that production can be financed by a variety of other parties or organizations, like government, unions, etc... In fact, nothing is preventing it right now.

The problem is, they suck at it. Independent financing works because of the profit motive, and because decisions are made by small groups of people or individuals, not Senates.
 
SJHovey said:
All joking about Vegas casinos aside, you are right that production can be financed by a variety of other parties or organizations, like government, unions, etc... In fact, nothing is preventing it right now.

The problem is, they suck at it. Independent financing works because of the profit motive, and because decisions are made by small groups of people or individuals, not Senates.
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Independent financing is a cancer that requires infinite, unsustainable growth, exploitation, and environmental destruction.
 
SJHovey said:
All joking about Vegas casinos aside, you are right that production can be financed by a variety of other parties or organizations, like government, unions, etc... In fact, nothing is preventing it right now.

The problem is, they suck at it. Independent financing works because of the profit motive, and because decisions are made by small groups of people or individuals, not Senates.
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Ontario Teachers Pension Fund says hi.
 
SJHovey said:
Yeah, I get it. It's always dangerous to lump everyone together, although I don't think I'm alone here in that regard. That said, I find amusing the whole lament, "if I could just kill capitalism and corporations, and eliminate the need for my friends and I to work, we'd have so much more time to play video games together."
Click to expand...

Capitalism isn't the problem...greed is. Capitalism is like anything else, it is only as good as the people involved. Corporations and people suck.

Listen, I'm all for companies making money...but why should we all suffer while ExxonMobil makes ridiculous record profits every quarter? That is what is triggering almost all of inflation...profiteering. They could cut net profits by a third and inflation disappears next quarter. Instead we incentivize them to push for even more...

This country is filled with people and corporations who have zero sense of civic responsibility. The hypocrisy is rampant and no one cares as long as they get theirs.
 
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Oh the shareholder cycle is the best.

infinite, continuous growth! Always! And if things dip for a quarter or two, do mass layoffs so the stock can recover and the execs pocket more money. Then six months later they need to rehire people which costs more money
 
Jimjamesak said:
Ontario Teachers Pension Fund says hi.
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The problem with union funds or retirement funds or things like this is that they are conservative. They have to be conservative. I don't think we'd want them to be any other way. They need a return, but they also have to be there for the retirees.

Real financing can be pretty risky. For every Microsoft or Apple there are a thousand or more ideas that died a merciful death. That's why you need private financing, and why it works.
 
Kentucky Supreme Court dismisses the lawsuit brought by abortion providers and ACLU to halt the implementation of our insanely restrictive abortion laws due to lack of standing, but opens the door for women actually harmed by the law to sue. Not that I expect that to get anywhere, but stay tuned, I guess.
 
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