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The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

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joecct said:
Process. Legislative districts should have reasonably straight borders. Sure you try to favor your own party, but don't go over the top. Lately, legislatures have been setting congressional and state districts to eliminate all opposition.

Courts said fix it and imposed their own solution. I would rather the legislature had realized that the court order was the equivalent of Luca Brasi holding a gun to their heads and assuring them that either new districts would be drawn or their jobs would be forfeit.

It appears they didn't and now they're ***.

Individually GOP lawmakers are smart. However, when they get together in a closed room they get a terminal case of the stupids.

When Dems get in a closed room they get a terminal case of the arrogance.
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Every time I am forced to interact with a legislator, former legislator, lobbyist, or wannabe legislator, I lose faith in the system. With very rare exceptions, they're all idiots that are the equivalent of used car salesmen with connections.

There are bad judges out there, but not nearly as many as there are legislators.
 
Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

joecct said:
I know. It appears to be a map any citizen should be proud of. I'm upset it took the courts to do it rather than the legislature.
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Then you should take it up with the PA Republican legislators that would rather impeach the judges, than own up to the gerrymandering and do their jobs.
 
Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

joecct said:
I know. It appears to be a map any citizen should be proud of. I'm upset it took the courts to do it rather than the legislature.
Click to expand...

A fair point. Aside from a SCOTUS ruling though, and I'm skeptical of that unless Kennedy wants to add "the guy who brought down gerrymandering" to his list of consequential swing vote decisions, I don't see a remedy. Challenging the lines according to state law is an interesting tactic however. Previously it was left to the voters to enact a citizens initiative to clean up redistricting (FL voters for example passed a law and the state now has 14 R leaning and 13 D leaning districts although 2 Goopers hold Hillary won districts. Believe the courts had to write those maps too). By my count the most egregious gerrymanders are NC, OH, WI, MI, IL and MD with 4 GOP related and 2 for the Dems. Wondering if challenges on state and not federal grounds will now pop up in those places.
 
Rover said:
A fair point. Aside from a SCOTUS ruling though, and I'm skeptical of that unless Kennedy wants to add "the guy who brought down gerrymandering" to his list of consequential swing vote decisions, I don't see a remedy. Challenging the lines according to state law is an interesting tactic however. Previously it was left to the voters to enact a citizens initiative to clean up redistricting (FL voters for example passed a law and the state now has 14 R leaning and 13 D leaning districts although 2 Goopers hold Hillary won districts. Believe the courts had to write those maps too). By my count the most egregious gerrymanders are NC, OH, WI, MI, IL and MD with 4 GOP related and 2 for the Dems. Wondering if challenges on state and not federal grounds will now pop up in those places.
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If left locally in MD, nothing will change. All the districts are drawn by a veto proof D controlled legislature and the courts lean D. In the gerrymander suit, the courts recognized the partisan districts but deferred to the legislature.

It sounds like I'm contradicting myself, doesn't it? I abhor application of raw naked political power to achieve a result. Politics was corrupt, now it is worse.
 
Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

joecct said:
If left locally in MD, nothing will change. All the districts are drawn by a veto proof D controlled legislature and the courts lean D. In the gerrymander suit, the courts recognized the partisan districts but deferred to the legislature.

It sounds like I'm contradicting myself, doesn't it? I abhor application of raw naked political power to achieve a result. Politics was corrupt, now it is worse.
Click to expand...

Its definitely not going to work everywhere. I believe the WI supreme court is GOP dominated. Think Dems took over one vote majority in NC recently. No idea about the others although one would assume the IL and MD lean left while OH leans right. Don't know about MI.

I'm more of an advocate of citizens ballot initiatives wherever available. Either vote to put redistricting in the hands of an independent commission or set rules about no incumbent protection and limiting the splitting of cities/counties. That coupled with anti-discrimination laws on a federal level forces better districts.
 
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Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

Rover said:
Its definitely not going to work everywhere. I believe the WI supreme court is GOP dominated. Think Dems took over one vote majority in NC recently. No idea about the others although one would assume the IL and MD lean left while OH leans right. Don't know about MI.

I'm more of an advocate of citizens ballot initiatives wherever available. Either vote to put redistricting in the hands of an independent commission or set rules about no incumbent protection and limiting the splitting of cities/counties. That coupled with anti-discrimination laws on a federal level forces better districts.
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MI is solid right in the Senate, and leans right in the House. Been that way for years, and I think our court also skews right.
 
Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

PA is truly 50-50, but the Dems made an effort to elect judges when they couldn't make a dent in the gerrymander.

Seems to have worked, huh?
 
Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

From the Hill:

BREAKING: Democratic candidate Linda Belcher has defeated her Republican opponent by a stunning 37 points to flip a GOP-controlled state House seat in a deep-red Kentucky district that President Trump won by 49 points in 2016.
 
Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

To put it in perspective, the previous congressman killed himself amid allegations of sexual assault, among other legal offenses. Of course, he was an Xtian pastor. :rolleyes: The icing on the cake is that his widow announced she would run for his seat less than 24 hours after he died - pretty bad optics, there. Makes one wonder if the guy really committed suicide.
 
FadeToBlack&Gold said:
To put it in perspective, the previous congressman killed himself amid allegations of sexual assault, among other legal offenses. Of course, he was an Xtian pastor. :rolleyes: The icing on the cake is that his widow announced she would run for his seat less than 24 hours after he died - pretty bad optics, there. Makes one wonder if the guy really committed suicide.
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Also her name is Belcher
 
Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

Rover said:
A fair point. Aside from a SCOTUS ruling though, and I'm skeptical of that unless Kennedy wants to add "the guy who brought down gerrymandering" to his list of consequential swing vote decisions, I don't see a remedy.
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Kennedy has almost always deferred to the bribers. I don't see him doing anything about the corruption of our politics. He really believes that guff about spending being speech, and he bows at the altar of Our Founding Dollars just as nakedly as tools like Thomas and Alito.

The only hope is it gets his name in large type one more time. He likes that.
 
Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

Kepler said:
Kennedy has almost always deferred to the bribers. I don't see him doing anything about the corruption of our politics. He really believes that guff about spending being speech, and he bows at the altar of Our Founding Dollars just as nakedly as tools like Thomas and Alito.

The only hope is it gets his name in large type one more time. He likes that.
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I too see Kennedy as a corporate conservative sorta like Roberts and not like the three nutballs on the far right of the court. Having said that I am counting on his desire to cement a legacy as the most influential justice of the last half of the 20th century and first half of this one. For every stupid decision the guy's made (Citizens United) he's made a terrific one (Gay Marriage). For a conservative, that's about as good as we're going to get. Its possible he steps up on this one as well....

Hopkinja said:
PA is truly 50-50, but the Dems made an effort to elect judges when they couldn't make a dent in the gerrymander.

Seems to have worked, huh?
Click to expand...

Yes and its about time Dems start playing hardball on redistricting after sitting around with their thumbs up their arses for the last 15 years on this issue (recall it was Tom Delay who originally started pushing states to not wait for the new census to pass redistricting changes).
 
unofan said:
Every time I am forced to interact with a legislator, former legislator, lobbyist, or wannabe legislator, I lose faith in the system. With very rare exceptions, they're all idiots that are the equivalent of used car salesmen with connections.

There are bad judges out there, but not nearly as many as there are legislators.
Click to expand...

Legislator outnumber judges
 
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