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The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

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Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

One of the most unfortunate elements of PPACA (which I notice the Romney campaign is now highlighting) is the "medical devices tax."

You wonder what the staffers who came up with this nugget were thinking. Are they unaware of even the most basic elements of human behavior?

If you want more of something you lower its price, if you want less of something you raise its price.

Why would anyone ever think of adding a special tax on medical devices when we want to reduce healthcare costs, not increase them? when we want to reward innovation, not stifle it?
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Could you knucks' please try to put in some effort next time? A right wing hack website quotes two doctors who are members of right wing hack think tanks. Yup, no agenda here folks. Here's the funniest thing though. Look who they brag about having an affiliation with....

Some AEI scholars are considered to be some of the leading architects of the second Bush administration's public policy.[3] More than twenty AEI scholars and fellows served either in a Bush administration policy post or on one of the government's many panels and commissions. Among the prominent former government officials now affiliated with AEI are former U.S. ambassador to the U.N. John Bolton, now an AEI senior fellow; former chairman of the National Endowment for the Humanities Lynne Cheney, a longtime AEI senior fellow; former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, now an AEI senior fellow; former Dutch member of parliament Ayaan Hirsi Ali, an AEI visiting fellow; and former deputy secretary of defense Paul Wolfowitz,


John Bolton, Lynne Cheney, Next Gingrich and Paul Wolfowitz?!?! :eek::eek::eek::D
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Rover said:
Could you knucks' please try to put in some effort next time? A right wing hack website quotes two doctors who are members of right wing hack think tanks. Yup, no agenda here folks. Here's the funniest thing though. Look who they brag about having an affiliation with....

Some AEI scholars are considered to be some of the leading architects of the second Bush administration's public policy.[3] More than twenty AEI scholars and fellows served either in a Bush administration policy post or on one of the government's many panels and commissions. Among the prominent former government officials now affiliated with AEI are former U.S. ambassador to the U.N. John Bolton, now an AEI senior fellow; former chairman of the National Endowment for the Humanities Lynne Cheney, a longtime AEI senior fellow; former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, now an AEI senior fellow; former Dutch member of parliament Ayaan Hirsi Ali, an AEI visiting fellow; and former deputy secretary of defense Paul Wolfowitz,


John Bolton, Lynne Cheney, Next Gingrich and Paul Wolfowitz?!?! :eek::eek::eek::D
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Rover

The only empirical evidence I can give you is that people are having a hard time finding primary care docs in Massachusetts. Either they don't have enough primary care doctors, or the primary care docs are not making enough to take on new patients.
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

joecct said:
Rover

The only empirical evidence I can give you is that people are having a hard time finding primary care docs in Massachusetts. Either they don't have enough primary care doctors, or the primary care docs are not making enough to take on new patients.
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Both. No reimbursement means not many people are stupid enough to either become a primary or if they do- they get out. Someone should have stats somewhere on the mass exodus of docs because anecdotally we are seeing lots of people get out around here.
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Rover said:
...[fallacious argument].....
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There's probably a Latin word for it that Old Pio knows. You said nothing about the substance of the article, you merely tried to discredit the authors.

You might be suspicious of what they might have to say, granted. However, the identity of a speaker is not relevant to whether empirical facts cited are accurate or not.

It's not only in one or two fringe places that these kinds of findings are showing up. And if Mrs. Les says she sees it happening with her own eyes, then who am I to disbelieve her?
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

FreshFish said:
There's probably a Latin word for it that Old Pio knows. You said nothing about the substance of the article, you merely tried to discredit the authors.

You might be suspicious of what they might have to say, granted. However, the identity of a speaker is not relevant to whether empirical facts cited are accurate or not.

It's not only in one or two fringe places that these kinds of findings are showing up. And if Mrs. Les says she sees it happening with her own eyes, then who am I to disbelieve her?
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If your source is well known to be overtly biased then yes it is relevant and not fallacious to argue against them. It's not like you actually responded to Rover's criticism that the quotes and message of the article are coming from an echo chamber that shares the same outright political agenda as the website itself.

Why is it that all these experts going after the health care act come from places that have it in their mission statement how their entire organization is dedicated to being against it and anything that comes from a "liberal" source?


And what about Les' observation backs up the whole point of the article that...
under the Affordable Care Act, physician availability will decrease dramatically, as there won’t be enough practicing medical providers to tend to the greater number of insured patients.
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Every part of this piece talks about what may happen, not what is happening. Or even why it's happening today. If the current insurance system, which they want to hold on to is so superior, why aren't doctors being paid better through it?
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Always defer to les on medical issues and this point has been raised before. As I've said before, this is one of the truer points that has ever been made. Yes, more people will equal more wait times to see medical personnel until the market adjusts to fill the need. For example more of the "minute clinics" that CVS is setting up despite some resistance in Mass (mostly from fat, corrupt, illiterate, 50 year incumbent Boston mayor).

So, while the issue certainly needs to be addressed, I'm not sure people having no health insurance is the solution. :rolleyes:
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Rover said:
Always defer to les on medical issues and this point has been raised before. As I've said before, this is one of the truer points that has ever been made. Yes, more people will equal more wait times to see medical personnel until the market adjusts to fill the need. For example more of the "minute clinics" that CVS is setting up despite some resistance in Mass (mostly from fat, corrupt, illiterate, 50 year incumbent Boston mayor).

So, while the issue certainly needs to be addressed, I'm not sure people having no health insurance is the solution. :rolleyes:
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This is not the solution. People object to Minute Clinics because they fragment care. Lots of patients overutilize them because they insist there is something wrong and will shop to try and get someone to treat them. If they were all connected to a hub where info was shared and someone could point out to the patient that they have been seen x amt of times for the problem then I think there would be less objection.
Link to article that is beautifully written about what is wrong with our system. (sorry,I don't know how to retitle it to something fancy instead of posting the long link)
http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyl...Sk3BogpFmfmF31EwyM/story.html?camp=newsletter
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

FreshFish said:
More evidence mounts that PPACA is having the opposite effect in practice than it was supposed to have in theory....

Hospitals are buying up physician specialty groups and so can bill for more money for the same procedures because it's being done in a hospital setting instead of a physician's office.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...1113671007448.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTTopStories
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Because no one ever gamed the system prior to the Affordable Care Act?
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Anyone here a student and has to buy the school's health insurance? I hearing that premiums have gone up quite a bit due to PPACA.
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

joecct said:
Anyone here a student and has to buy the school's health insurance? I hearing that premiums have gone up quite a bit due to PPACA.
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They were going up prior to that as was all insurance. Mr les deals with the student health insurance for his job. Before the act the cost was already exploding. I think they now have to cover something besides catastophic which means the kids forced to by it get something out of it.
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

joecct said:
Anyone here a student and has to buy the school's health insurance? I hearing that premiums have gone up quite a bit due to PPACA.
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I had it for 3 years from 2006-2009. It was a ripoff back then, just like almost every other higher education expense.
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

unofan said:
I had it for 3 years from 2006-2009. It was a ripoff back then, just like almost every other higher education expense.
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Most students under the PPACA won't need it because they'll still be on their parents plan till their 26. That should SAVE money.
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

joecct said:
Anyone here a student and has to buy the school's health insurance? I hearing that premiums have gone up quite a bit due to PPACA.
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I ripped some knuckledragger to shreds at work over something like this. Our insurance has always been extremely disappointing, but this guy tried to chalk this year's policy up to the ACA. Methinks Drudge or Rush is telling all you guys to start blaming any change in your coverage on the law.
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

ScoobyDoo said:
Most students under the PPACA won't need it because they'll still be on their parents plan till their 26. That should SAVE money.
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That doesn't save money, it just passes the beneficiary of revenue to someone else.
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

ScoobyDoo said:
Most students under the PPACA won't need it because they'll still be on their parents plan till their 26. That should SAVE money.
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Um, no it doesn't "save" anything it merely shifts the cost from the students to whomever is paying the premiums on the parents' plan.
 
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