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The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

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Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

FlagDUDE08 said:
There actually is some logic in what you say, because if someone is already paying the benefit, assuming that the cost and benefit are the same, it doesn't make sense to drop it, unless you need to do so for another reason, such as reducing expenses.

However, the statement I placed in bold is an issue that is causing the argument, because this is not an assumption that can be made. Let me ask this: Does the Massachusetts plan require that health organizations either provide or refuse specific services, and at the cost to a specific party in the transaction?
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I believe the state requires all insurances covering Mass residents to cover the same procedures as part of their coverage. How much they charge for that coverage which I believe is more generous than most states I'm not 100% sure. You also can choose a plan with different deductable vs monthly premium rates but my experience is confined to the coverage I'd had myself. Perhaps les can shed more light.
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

FreshFish said:
Because if he drops the insurance now, he leaves his employees uninsured; while if he drops the insurance in 2014, he merely shifts his employees from one health plan to another health plan.
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Employers currently offer health plans to attract quality workers. In 2014, quality workers will still demand either a health care plan or a commiserate increase in salary to offset the lack of a health plan.

Your logic doesn't make sense.
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

unofan said:
Employers currently offer health plans to attract quality workers. In 2014, quality workers will still demand either a health care plan or a commiserate increase in salary to offset the lack of a health plan.

Your logic doesn't make sense.
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But, if the law mandates coverages that you feel are against your moral code, do you cease to provide the insurance (and then let the employees get the exact same coverage in a gov't health plan). It makes no sense, but then again, very little in this law makes sense.

Then to take it further, if I get dropped, can I find a health plan that does not cover items I feel are offensive? Give me some Advil (oops, that's not covered - have to get the generic)!! :D
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

unofan said:
Your logic doesn't make sense.
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um...it's not "my" logic. It is an explanation of other people's thinking that is quite common and widespread. Go debate them, not me. Good luck!
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

joecct said:
But, if the law mandates coverages that you feel are against your moral code, do you cease to provide the insurance (and then let the employees get the exact same coverage in a gov't health plan). It makes no sense, but then again, very little in this law makes sense.

Then to take it further, if I get dropped, can I find a health plan that does not cover items I feel are offensive? Give me some Advil (oops, that's not covered - have to get the generic)!! :D
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Since the world doesn't revolve around you, you're s # i t out of luck! You can't tailor health insurance to everyone's moral code.
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Rover said:
You can't tailor health insurance to everyone's moral code.
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um, isn't that exactly what Sandra Fluke and Kathleen Sebelius are doing???? :confused:

or are you saying it is okay to tailor health insurance to your moral code but not to a moral code you don't agree with??
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

FreshFish said:
um, isn't that exactly what Sandra Fluke and Kathleen Sebelius are doing???? :confused:

or are you saying it is okay to tailor health insurance to your moral code but not to a moral code you don't agree with??
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Fishy, buddy, this issue was settled in the 1950's by the SCOTUS. Birth control is legal and millions of women use it. Now perhaps your situation doesn't bring you in touch with this fact, but that's your problem (and frankly answers a lot of questions). 10 crankly knuckledraggers upset because they haven't gotten laid in years can't use that frustration to deny millions of women a legal product. I'd suggest you invent a time machine, get transported back to the 1920's, study law, graduate at the top of your class, and then get appointed to the SCOTUS in time to help hand down that decision if you don't like it.
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Rover said:
Fishy, buddy, this issue was settled in the 1950's by the SCOTUS. Birth control is legal and millions of women use it. Now perhaps your situation doesn't bring you in touch with this fact, but that's your problem (and frankly answers a lot of questions). 10 crankly knuckledraggers upset because they haven't gotten laid in years can't use that frustration to deny millions of women a legal product. I'd suggest you invent a time machine, get transported back to the 1920's, study law, graduate at the top of your class, and then get appointed to the SCOTUS in time to help hand down that decision if you don't like it.
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Just because something is legal doesn't force someone to provide for it. Guavas are legal, but I know plenty of grocery stores that don't sell them. If you want a guava, but the store you walk into doesn't sell guavas, you go to another store that does. The same thing is true with medicine. If you want a birth control pill, but a certain location doesn't sell them, you go to another location.
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

FlagDUDE08 said:
Just because something is legal doesn't force someone to provide for it. Guavas are legal, but I know plenty of grocery stores that don't sell them. If you want a guava, but the store you walk into doesn't sell guavas, you go to another store that does. The same thing is true with medicine. If you want a birth control pill, but a certain location doesn't sell them, you go to another location.
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The people decide Flag. If like minded people such as yourself would like to either 1) restrict/ban birth control access, or 2) pass laws denying coverage, be my guest. I don't like your electoral prospects with a stance like this, but go for it. The American public have it in their power to toss Obama out of his job in a few months if they'd like. That's the beauty of living in a democracy.

For kicks though, tell me why having your insurer cover birth control harms *anybody*. Nobody's forcing people to use it, anymore than coverage for a heart transplant doesn't make you get one if you don't need it.
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

The path to theocracy is paved with good intentions. We are seeing right now in the Middle East what happens when the public space is conditional on private religious beliefs.
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Kepler said:
The path to theocracy is paved with good intentions. We are seeing right now in the Middle East what happens when the public space is conditional on private religious beliefs.
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Don't tell that to anyone in Alabama, Mississippi, or Kansas.
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Kepler said:
The path to theocracy is paved with good intentions. We are seeing right now in the Middle East what happens when the public space is conditional on private religious beliefs.
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Hey I keep waiting for this New-Conservative Kingdom On Earth to come but the voters always seem to get in the way. Given that the largest generation in the country today is Millenials, I'm not sure an anti-birth control platform is the way to go but far be it from me to start advising neo-cons on how to run their campaigns. Keep the Todd Akin's coming!
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Rover said:
The people decide Flag. If like minded people such as yourself would like to either 1) restrict/ban birth control access, or 2) pass laws denying coverage, be my guest. I don't like your electoral prospects with a stance like this, but go for it. The American public have it in their power to toss Obama out of his job in a few months if they'd like. That's the beauty of living in a democracy.

For kicks though, tell me why having your insurer cover birth control harms *anybody*. Nobody's forcing people to use it, anymore than coverage for a heart transplant doesn't make you get one if you don't need it.
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As an American that believes in free enterprise, I will support and defend the ability of any American to offer the services that they so desire, regardless of whether or not I personally agree with someone offering or not offering the service. Why someone believes that a service should not be offered I cannot answer, seeing as how I am not that specific someone. You would need to ask that person.
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Rover said:
Hey I keep waiting for this New-Conservative Kingdom On Earth to come but the voters always seem to get in the way. Given that the largest generation in the country today is Millenials, I'm not sure an anti-birth control platform is the way to go but far be it from me to start advising neo-cons on how to run their campaigns. Keep the Todd Akin's coming!
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High Weirdness that the fundy base should look for foreign policy guidance to atheist Neocons and for economic guidance to atheist Randians.
 
Re: The Sad Case of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Rover said:
Birth control is legal and millions of women use it.
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and that makes it mandatory how, exactly?



("mandatory" in the sense that all health plans now must offer it..sounds like someone imposing their values on everyone else to me, and to every reasonable person I know as well. Of course, all you anointed ones on the left know better than everyone else, so why even bother responding to us in the first place? just impose your will by force of law and ignore the centuries of First Amendment rights)
 
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