The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

[SJHovey]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

An example of the amazing juxtaposition of fact vs Echo Chamber belief.

The question is, will those 10 million people vote? If they do, then turn out the lights the party's over.

Also a pretty good example of a clever turn of phrase. 10 million people "enabled" to get health insurance. By "enabled", of course, we mean "required by law."

Don't get me wrong, I personally think it's a very good idea to have health insurance, and I think it's in everyone's best interest for them to buy it too.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Also a pretty good example of a clever turn of phrase. 10 million people "enabled" to get health insurance. By "enabled", of course, we mean "required by law." .

I see your point (and it's funny), though I do think the use of "enabled" is warranted if these 10M are people who were unable to get coverage before the law.

If they were going through life without health insurance deliberately to wait in joyful hope for the coming of smallpox, that's another thing.

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

At this point I kinda doubt the penalties are driving people to get insurance since its only like $195 bucks. More likely people just want to have insurance, particularly if its affordable via the exchanges or expanded Medicare. In fact a popular right wing argument was that nobody was going to sign up for the very reason that the penalties were so cheap. Like most talking points that one has also bitten the dust.

Now as penalties go up, I imagine more poeple will decide its worth it to pay for something as opposed to paying a penalty. But I can't see 195 bucks causing people to run to the exchanges.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Where the hell is this 50% jump coming from? I haven't seen anything of the sort and I live in Minnesota as well.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

I think it's going to be interesting to see what happens this fall. In Minnesota we are already starting to hear some rumblings that beginning in about November, when the new enrollment period gets going, Minnesota insureds are going to see some pretty dramatic premium increases. Some are even talking crazy numbers in the 50% range. Democratic Governor Dayton has been under a lot of political pressure to get this information get out there no later than October so people can see what they are facing.

If we see people paying 50% more next year than they did this year, whether all or any part of that increase is due to the PPACA, people are going to make the temporal connection and we're going to hear about it right up through November 2016. At that point every governor who has ever spoken out against the PPACA will be making it loud and clear where they stand.

Don't touch my healthcare, dangnabit! Healthcare in Minnesota, including the exchange, has been a stunning success. Frankly if in a fantasyland premiums did go up 50%...our healthcare costs would be no more than average for some of the top quality healthcare in the country.

The 10 Least Expensive Health Insurance Markets In The U.S.

People in much of Minnesota, northwestern Pennsylvania and Tucson, Ariz., are getting the best bargains from the health care law’s new insurance marketplaces: premiums half the price or less than what insurers in the country’s most expensive places are charging.

Here are the least expensive areas:

$154: Minneapolis-St. Paul. Anoka, Carver, Dakota, Hennepin, Ramsey, Scott, Sherburne and Washington counties.

$164: Pittsburgh and Northwestern Pennsylvania. Allegheny, Armstrong, Beaver, Butler, Crawford, Erie, Fayette, Greene, Indiana, Lawrence, McKean, Mercer, Warren, Washington and Westmoreland counties.

$166: Middle Minnesota. Benton, Stearns and Wright counties.

$167: Tucson, Ariz. Pima County.

$171: Northwestern Minnesota. Clearwater, Kittson, Mahnomen, Marshall, Norman, Pennington, Polk and Red Lake counties.

$173: Salt Lake City. Davis and Salt Lake counties.

$176: Hawaii.

$180: Knoxville, Tenn. Anderson, Blount, Campbell, Claiborne, Cocke, Grainger, Hamblen, Jefferson, Knox, Loudon, Monroe, Morgan, Roane, Scott, Sevier & Union.

$180: Western and North Central Minnesota. Aitkin, Becker, Beltrami, Big Stone, Cass, Chippewa, Clay, Crow Wing, Douglas, Grant, Hubbard, Isanti, Kanabec, Kandiyohi, Lac qui Parle, Lyon, McLeod, Meeker, Mille Lacs, Morrison, Otter Tail, Pine, Pope, Renville, Roseau, Sibley, Stevens, Swift, Todd, Traverse, Wadena Wilkin and Yellow Medicine counties. In Chisago County, the lowest premium is $162.

$181: Chattanooga, Tenn. Bledsoe, Bradley, Franklin, Grundy, Hamilton, Marion, McMinn, Meigs, Polk, Rhea and Sequatchie counties.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/sto...expensive-health-insurance-markets-in-us.aspx

Top 10 Cities for Healthcare (from before the exchange)

#1 St. Paul, MN
#2 Dubuque, IA
#3 Rochester, MN
#4 Minneapolis, MN

http://money.usnews.com/money/retirement/slideshows/top-10-us-places-for-healthcare

 

[Craig P.]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Obama had a small window to be a truly transformative president. He blew it. He is in that regard much like Clinton, who had two years before the GOP rot set in to really change our rudder. Instead we still continued under both to move full bore towards the Club for Growth dream of an oligarchy. All I can say is, maybe next time. With the economy picking up and with the GOP likely to control both chambers of Congress from 2015-16, thus giving the country an eyeful of what they're really all about, we might finally see some progress in 2016 and in particular in 2020 when, on a general cycle, districts are redrawn based on the full electorate.

The trouble is, I'm not sure there's the same mandate for change when the economy is in recovery (even if it is leaving the middle class behind) as when it's in a ditch—and I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that state will hold through ~2020. That's where the missed opportunity really stings: the economy ran off the cliff under a GOP government driven by GOP policies, and yet the GOP has been more or less allowed to double down on the stuff that didn't work without nearly enough people calling them on it. I would have thought that the Great Recession would have completely obliterated the idea that the Republican brand of laissez-faire uber alles was good for the economy, and yet it still seems to be taken seriously by people who aren't kook-level true believers.

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

The trouble is, I'm not sure there's the same mandate for change when the economy is in recovery (even if it is leaving the middle class behind) as when it's in a ditch—and I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that state will hold through ~2020. That's where the missed opportunity really stings: the economy ran off the cliff under a GOP government driven by GOP policies, and yet the GOP has been more or less allowed to double down on the stuff that didn't work without nearly enough people calling them on it. I would have thought that the Great Recession would have completely obliterated the idea that the Republican brand of laissez-faire uber alles was good for the economy, and yet it still seems to be taken seriously by people who aren't kook-level true believers.

I don't subscribe to this necessarily because 2012 was a disaster for them. In an 8% unemployment economy, Presidents aren't supposed to win re-election and their party isn't supposed to pick up seats in Congress. Thanks to their inexplicable net loss of two Senate seats in 2012, Dems have a 5 seat Senate cushion allowing them to end up 2014 no worse than one or two seats in the minority, which they will easily reverse in 2016 when Gooper incumbents are running in Dem states.

The public has already punished them, and it remains to be seen if they keep punishing them in the gubernatorial contests such as PA, MI, WI, FL, etc where right wing policies have done little to improve these states. Any party, be it the Dems, GOP, Whigs, Greens, etc can't keep counting on having elections where only their people bother to show up while the majority who oppose them stay home. California is a great example of this where for 30 years it was a GOP bastion until the people the right was p! ssing off became the majority and then they opened up a can of whoop-***.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

The trouble is, I'm not sure there's the same mandate for change when the economy is in recovery (even if it is leaving the middle class behind) as when it's in a ditch—and I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that state will hold through ~2020. That's where the missed opportunity really stings: the economy ran off the cliff under a GOP government driven by GOP policies, and yet the GOP has been more or less allowed to double down on the stuff that didn't work without nearly enough people calling them on it. I would have thought that the Great Recession would have completely obliterated the idea that the Republican brand of laissez-faire uber alles was good for the economy, and yet it still seems to be taken seriously by people who aren't kook-level true believers.

These are all excellent points. There was an expression early in the Obama term, "never let a crisis go to waste," which captures the political realities you are talking about.

However, another thing that is changing, as Rover has alluded to, is the gradual passing of the Boomers from their position dominating political discourse. Boomer economics was all about making their lives as easy as possible and screw everybody else. Hence the Reagan tax cuts and the inter-generational shift of enormous debt from them to the next generation. Boomer social policy was all about the Culture Wars and the endless rehash of both the salad days of the Sixties and the conservative reflex reaction against them. As the Boomers die, this language dies with them. Pundits (mostly Boomers themselves) make the mistake of thinking in terms of the old dichotomies and identifying the national dialog somewhere along that number line, when what's beginning to happen is the number line itself is fading out. The generation now taking control of the dialog has its own formative experiences and its own perspective, which maps onto the Boomer template about as well as the Boomers' did onto the New Deal: not at all.

We haven't seen what's coming next. McCain and Romney ran strictly on Boomer language. Obama ran a campaign reacting against first Dubya and then the GOP Congress -- although there was some attempt to tap into the themes that are replacing the Boomer world, it was (and this is coming from a supporter) pretty incoherent.

Hillary will be just like McCain -- someone not only chronologically but also ideologically ancient, harping on the ragged end of ideas that were played out twenty years ago, and tone deaf to anybody in the electorate under the age of 50. She will almost certainly still win because the GOP is such a hot mess, but it will perpetuate the current situation where the government is stuck, like a tectonic plate, with pressure continually building for an alignment to the actual, living political reality. That alone may cause the next earthquake, with or without a crisis to spur it on.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Where the hell is this 50% jump coming from? I haven't seen anything of the sort and I live in Minnesota as well.

For instance I saw this link as part of a group of articles the Star Trib has had regarding pressure on Dayton to release the figures this fall, which he finally agreed to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2D5pCI4kFU&app=desktop

I saw another article, but I can't find it right now which also talked about potential rate increases in Minnesota, for groups as high as 30% and individuals as high as 50%.

Keep in mind, there have also been opinions stated that the rate increases will be in the 8-12% range.

I don't think they will approach anywhere near 50% (which is why I think I used the word "crazy" in my initial post). But if as the underwriter spokesman indicated a bunch of small businesses see 30% or higher increases, that's going to pinch some people.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

http://kstp.com/news/stories/s3498865.shtml

Here's an article referencing the rate hikes.

I don't buy it. Even the 30% figure. It just doesn't add up unless prices were artificially low to begin with (which they might have been since Minnesota has some of the lowest rates in the nation).

Regardless, as much as I didn't like Obamacare to begin with, we can't judge it based on one year's worth of data. This is going to take the better part of a decade to sort out. And even then, healthcare costs have so many variables, it's going to be hard to (truthfully and accurately) put the blame solely on Obamacare.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Regardless, as much as I didn't like Obamacare to begin with, we can't judge it based on one year's worth of data. This is going to take the better part of a decade to sort out. And even then, healthcare costs have so many variables, it's going to be hard to (truthfully and accurately) put the blame solely on Obamacare.

Plus, it will be unrecognizable in a decade. There will be a million tweaks to address real issues, and probably just as many tweaks concerning fake stuff that members want to posture about. Just like social security and Medicare, as pols realize it's popular they'll all want to claim fatherhood.

The GOP has about an 8 year window when they will blame every health care problem, from price to coverage to inefficiency, on those Mean Old Dems. Obamacare was really a Godsend to them since it took an enormous national, non-partisan challenge and transferred it, for low information voters, to ownership of the Dems. Never mind that if it was allowed to fester it would have been ten times worse, the GOP is like the guy who, after the fire department puts out the fire that was burning down his house, yells at them for trampling his begonias.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Yeah, being alive generally has a high approval rating.

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Its a lot simpler than that. When this law was passed, I was out here telling everyone what would constitute success IMHO. 1) Did the uninsured # go down. 2) Has the growth rate in health care costs been lowered?

1 year later, the answer is Yes and Yes. Now if any of that reverses, okay, but at this stage it did what it said it would.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Well, that's not a great way to measure success.

 

[busterman62]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Its a lot simpler than that. When this law was passed, I was out here telling everyone what would constitute success IMHO. 1) Did the uninsured # go down. 2) Has the growth rate in health care costs been lowered?

1 year later, the answer is Yes and Yes. Now if any of that reverses, okay, but at this stage it did what it said it would.

Growth rate in healthcare expenditures has been decreasing since 2008 which is, of course, long before the implementation of any of the provisions of the ACA. Why? To paraphrase your hero, "It's the Economy, Stupid". Final 2013 results are pending but decreased growth rate also is felt to be due to the same thing.

Health spending growth through 2013 is expected to remain slow because of the sluggish economic recovery, continued increases in cost-sharing requirements for the privately insured, and slow growth for public programs.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

MS guv banking on his constituents not having TVs, radios, the internet, newspapers, or functioning brain cells.

Kinda have to admire the sheer blatancy of his lie, though.

 

[joecct]

MS guv banking on his constituents not having TVs, radios, the internet, newspapers, or functioning brain cells.

Kinda have to admire the sheer blatancy of his lie, though.

Works for Charlie Rangel.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Works for Charlie Rangel.

I couldn't agree more.

In another part of the forest, Republican small town mayor wearing American flag shaped like cross wife beater, unexpected voice of reason.

 

[busterman62]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

I couldn't agree more.

In another part of the forest, Republican small town mayor wearing American flag shaped like cross wife beater, unexpected voice of reason.

Not quite as simple as the Kos brand sheep feed makes it sound

The issue is more urgent for hospitals because the health care reform law partially finances the Medicaid expansion and other new spending by reducing current funding streams for hospitals that treat large numbers of poor and uninsured patients, Herman said. Vidant Health's uncompensated care tab was $159 million in 2012

"It's a 60-year-old, aging facility, it's right on the shores of the sound and it's literally at sea level and needs to be evacuated every time severe weather is predicted for that area," Herman told HuffPost. "It's gotten to the point where the cost of that investment just to keep the hospital maintained and open is becoming higher and higher because of its location and because of the age of the facility."

Herman said. "Would we have had more options if we had Medicaid expansion? I think the answer to that would be yes. Would it have been enough to replace that with another hospital or a standalone emergency room? The answer to that is uncertain but probably unlikely."

Source: Right Wing Propaganda

CMS reimburses Critical Access Hospitals on a cost basis but despite this the hospital in question lost $1M last year. This mayor just lost a hospital that was probably a major employer also. He'll say anything to stop it from happening. He's even filed a complaint under Title 6 saying that the closing was racially motivated. It all comes down to $$$ but it sure makes for great sheep feed on the interweb and the boob tube though

 

[Kepler]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

CMS reimburses Critical Access Hospitals on a cost basis but despite this the hospital in question lost $1M last year. This mayor just lost a hospital that was probably a major employer also. He'll say anything to stop it from happening. He's even filed a complaint under Title 6 saying that the closing was racially motivated.

Fairly argued and well demonstrated. I amend the sentiment to "Republican small town mayor wearing American flag shaped like cross wife beater, full of shit just like you'd expect."