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The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

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Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Kepler said:
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Reagan and his handlers lowered American horizons and aspirations so much that we are content to pit the urban poor against the rural poor to fight for the scraps that drop from his cronies' gaping maws, and call that "progressivism."

That was real, lasting damage. He quite literally set the American left back, in terms of our ambitions, by more than 50 years, and we still haven't recovered. That was one hell of an "achievement."
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Disagree quite bit on this. The problem this country has had since before Ronbo's time is US jobs going overseas. That, and not upper income tax levels, is what's hurting the middle class who don't have college degrees. While Reagan subscribed to a laissez faire approach to things (French for "sit around with your thumb up your @zz while other countries steal your jobs") he didn't cause the issue with some Macheveillan (sp?) masterstoke of political genius. What he basically did was prescribe some medications (union busting, tax hikes, deficit spending) that treated the symptoms but not the disease itself (slave labor). Same thing happened in England with the same results (a few years of sizzle, but a continued hollowing out of the manufacturing base).

However, in many of these cases, the American people are to blame. Need everyone save 5 cents on products at Wal-Mart by purchasing Chinese slave labor produced goods? Must we all borrow ourselves to the hilt in order to live a lifestyle we can't afford? Maybe if you're making 30K a year you can't afford to live in the same neighborhood as Bill Gates.

Fortunately some sense seems to have been restored. Romney-Ryan ran on a completely cynical economic platform where they didn't even try to explain how the 7T borrowing spree was going to increase jobs or balance out. Despite near 8% unemployment, the voters handed them their asses. If that approach was EVER going to work, 2012 was the year it would be successful.

Bottom line is, there's no evil brilliant GOP plan born of the Reagan era to stupify and divide the citizenry for the benefit of corporations. Much, much more simply, the GOP rode the self centered narcissism of the Baby Boomer generation to power, and are now riding the same wave out. Their current proposals such as the Ryan budget are specifically targeted towards this group (his cuts don't kick in for anybody over 55) because they don't know what else to do as their base dwindles but they get no traction to the growing segment of voters (young people, minorities, etc).
 
Married filing jointly (as an example)

0--100k: 15%
100k-300k: 29%
300k-3M: 42%
3M-20M: 50%
20M+ : 62.5%
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Rover said:
the GOP rode the self centered narcissism of the Baby Boomer generation to power, and are now riding the same wave out
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I think you're a little too confident in this. Nobody ever went broke betting on the selfishness of the American voter. If you tell people you can have your cake and not pay for it, the way the GOP did for 30 years, then people will vote for that. People are still voting for that, utterly unaware that the "tax cuts" the GOP gave them only mattered for the upper class -- the middle class has been paying them back and then some in debt service.

The Cons aren't right about much, but they are right about moral hazard. They just don't realize that it's they who have been pushing the hazardous behavior all these years.
 
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Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

mookie1995 said:
Married filing jointly (as an example)

0--100k: 15%
100k-300k: 29%
300k-3M: 42%
3M-20M: 50%
20M+ : 62.5%
Click to expand...

That won't generate enough revenue. I don't like regressive structures, but you do need to have around 30% hitting the median income, and that's around $50k (median married joint return -- median household is much lower, about $30k).
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

I just think we go back to the full personal property tax in all states, and on a federal level. Get the agents coming into our homes to check to see if we got a new big screen tv, a new Xbox, upgraded the cell phone, etc...
 
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Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Kepler said:
I think you're a little too confident in this. Nobody ever went broke betting on the selfishness of the American voter. If you tell people you can have your cake and not pay for it, the way the GOP did for 30 years, then people will vote for that. People are still voting for that, utterly unaware that the "tax cuts" the GOP gave them only mattered for the upper class -- the middle class has been paying them back and then some in debt service.

The Cons aren't right about much, but they are right about moral hazard. They just don't realize that's its they who have been pushing the hazardous behavior all these years.
Click to expand...

Oh, no. They're the party of fiscal sanity, fiscal conservatism, and the tried and true beauty of supply side economics. The only true capitalistic and fair economic system. If you don't believe me, just ask them, they will tell you.
 
SJHovey said:
I just think we go back to the full personal property tax in all states, and on a federal level. Get the agents coming into our homes to check to see if we got a new big screen tv, a new Xbox, upgraded the cell phone, etc...
Click to expand...

How much will that cost, and how many people will have to become agents? Let me know when the agents are coming, so I can hide the good China, the family jewels and my 96" TV.
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

10.3M newly insured Americans after only 8 months of the ACA being in effect. That's pretty d@mn good. Would be better if dumbfuk GOP governors expanded Medicare, but you get what you vote for.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101861170
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Rover said:
10.3M newly insured Americans after only 8 months of the ACA being in effect. That's pretty d@mn good. Would be better if dumbfuk GOP governors expanded Medicare, but you get what you vote for.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101861170
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If voters had perfect information there wouldn't be a Republican governor left after this. But since they control their voters' information through their media outlets, the disinformation circle remains unbroken. And they ran so far out a limb with their 4-year-long obsession with repeal they can't back off now. It will be interesting to see if the dam breaks on any of the guvs who deliberately put their populations at health risk for their personal political gain. If there was any justice they'd all go down in flames, but I have a feeling nothing will happen -- those voters are on ideological lockdown.
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Rover said:
10.3M newly insured Americans after only 8 months of the ACA being in effect. That's pretty d@mn good. Would be better if dumbfuk GOP governors expanded Medicare, but you get what you vote for.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101861170
Click to expand...

Kepler said:
If voters had perfect information there wouldn't be a Republican governor left after this. But since they control their voters' information through their media outlets, the disinformation circle remains unbroken. And they ran so far out a limb with their 4-year-long obsession with repeal they can't back off now. It will be interesting to see if the dam breaks on any of the guvs who deliberately put their populations at health risk for their personal political gain. If there was any justice they'd all go down in flames, but I have a feeling nothing will happen -- those voters are on ideological lockdown.
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I think it's going to be interesting to see what happens this fall. In Minnesota we are already starting to hear some rumblings that beginning in about November, when the new enrollment period gets going, Minnesota insureds are going to see some pretty dramatic premium increases. Some are even talking crazy numbers in the 50% range. Democratic Governor Dayton has been under a lot of political pressure to get this information get out there no later than October so people can see what they are facing.

If we see people paying 50% more next year than they did this year, whether all or any part of that increase is due to the PPACA, people are going to make the temporal connection and we're going to hear about it right up through November 2016. At that point every governor who has ever spoken out against the PPACA will be making it loud and clear where they stand.
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

SJHovey said:
At that point every governor who has ever spoken out against the PPACA will be making it loud and clear where they stand.
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I doubt it. While transitioning to greater coverage means a one-time-only apparent cost increase, that's largely illusory since those costs used to be paid somewhere else along the conveyor belt as externalities associated with lack of insurance. Granted, that's a difficult concept for many voters to grasp, but at the same time adoption of Obamacare marks the point where future increases start bending downwards, which means long term everybody's costs will actually be lower, and that's easier to understand. Meanwhile, everybody who gained coverage through the plan now knows (1) it worked and (2) the guys hollering on the other side want to claw that back, and that's not going to make them any friendlier to the obstructionists.

The GOP played a Hail Mary: scream about Obamacare, then sabotage it, and then claim they were right it didn't work. They tried to prevent flight then, when it happened anyway, they tried sawing the wings off the plane in mid-flight, hoping the survivors of the crash would blame the pilot. It didn't work, but I'm glad to see they apparently are still holding steady to their plan, since that will be just that much more damaging to them in the long run.

Of all the beaches to die on, this was a really dumb one for them to pick.
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

First off, 50% premium increases (on avg) seems absurd as they've been coming in a lot lower and more insurers are entering markets for 2015 after sitting out 2014.

Beyond that though, you get what you vote for. If people would rather go without healthcare so their governor can get 5 minutes of good press on Fox Cable, either mobilize to vote him/her out or deal with it. For example, take Florida. Rick Scott doesn't want to expand Medicare. In a close re-election race that he faces, the voters screwed over by this policy have the ability to be difference makers. I'd suggest they do so, just like in Georgia or Pennsylvania or Maine.
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Kepler said:
I doubt it. While transitioning to greater coverage means a one-time-only apparent cost increase, that's largely illusory since those costs used to be paid somewhere else along the conveyor belt as externalities associated with lack of insurance. Granted, that's a difficult concept for many voters to grasp, but at the same time adoption of Obamacare marks the point where future increases start bending downwards, which means long term everybody's costs will actually be lower, and that's easier to understand. Meanwhile, everybody who gained coverage through the plan now knows (1) it worked and (2) the guys hollering on the other side want to claw that back, and that's not going to make them any friendlier to the obstructionists.

The GOP played a Hail Mary: scream about Obamacare, then sabotage it, and then claim they were right it didn't work. They tried to prevent flight then, when it happened anyway, they tried sawing the wings off the plane in mid-flight, hoping the survivors of the crash would blame the pilot. It didn't work, but I'm glad to see they apparently are still holding steady to their plan, since that will be just that much more damaging to them in the long run.

Of all the beaches to die on, this was a really dumb one for them to pick.
Click to expand...
I guess we'll see. My prediction is that people running on the Affordable Care Act will be few and far between. Tough sell when you say sure your premiums took a huge jump this year, but over your lifetime you'll save money.
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

An example of the amazing juxtaposition of fact vs Echo Chamber belief.

The question is, will those 10 million people vote? If they do, then turn out the lights the party's over.
 
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