The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

[LynahFan]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Lovely Strawman you've concocted.

I appreciate your concern for the New York Times, but it does not speak or write. The reporters (again, flesh and blood people) do. I have no idea where you came up with censorship, except your overactive imagination. Each and every person at the Times has Constitutional rights, the Times does not.

Maybe I'm just too immersed in the current system to be able to open my mind, but I just do not see how this could possibly work. If a reporter, his copy editor, a photographer, a graphic artist, the page boss, the section manager, the executive editor, and the editor in chief all signed off on a story about me that turned out to be libelous, who exactly would I sue? Do I have to drag each of those people before the court to have his portion of the blame assigned? And each shareholder for the error of their ways in hiring such scurrilous management who allowed such a thing? It seems far better just to be able to sue the organization as a monolithic entity. Doing so will hurt each of those stakeholders I just mentioned, albeit slightly - not too different than if the court had to go through the motions of assigning each individual 0.00001% of the blame.

(not to mention, if I am awarded a $1M settlement and there are 10M shareholders, do I receive 10M checks for $0.10 each? Going to get an awfully sore wrist endorsing all those....)

 

[The Sicatoka]

If we (the country) are going to silence corporations, then we would have to silence labor union speech, as well. After all, they're not people either.

Labor unions.
Planned Parenthood.
The Catholic Church.
Heck, the Democrat and Republican parties.

None have a tongue; yet, all speak.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Labor unions.
Planned Parenthood.
The Catholic Church.
Heck, the Democrat and Republican parties.

None have a tongue; yet, all speak.

So, in effect, all groups of people would lose their ability to make political speech. Only individual people would retain such a right to speak upon political topics or to politicians at all. The George Soroses and Koch brothers of the world would really win the day then.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

If we (the country) are going to silence corporations, then we would have to silence labor union speech, as well. After all, they're not people either.

Its always funny when you guys equate labor unions with corporate America. Like they even compete at the same level. One is the NHL and the other is Pee Wee.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Its always funny when you guys equate labor unions with corporate America. Like they even compete at the same level. One is the NHL and the other is Pee Wee.

They're both groups of people coming together for the purpose of (usually) economic gains. The fact that one is larger than the other has no bearing on law.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Its always funny when you guys equate labor unions with corporate America. Like they even compete at the same level. One is the NHL and the other is Pee Wee.

You've never been a union member have you? The only real difference is who's side they're on.

 

[Priceless]

Maybe I'm just too immersed in the current system to be able to open my mind, but I just do not see how this could possibly work. If a reporter, his copy editor, a photographer, a graphic artist, the page boss, the section manager, the executive editor, and the editor in chief all signed off on a story about me that turned out to be libelous, who exactly would I sue? Do I have to drag each of those people before the court to have his portion of the blame assigned? And each shareholder for the error of their ways in hiring such scurrilous management who allowed such a thing? It seems far better just to be able to sue the organization as a monolithic entity. Doing so will hurt each of those stakeholders I just mentioned, albeit slightly - not too different than if the court had to go through the motions of assigning each individual 0.00001% of the blame.

(not to mention, if I am awarded a $1M settlement and there are 10M shareholders, do I receive 10M checks for $0.10 each? Going to get an awfully sore wrist endorsing all those....)

As I said, the corporation is a legal entity. It can be sued, it can pay taxes, pay bills, sell products, etc. Corporations do not have freedom of speech, religion etc. The corporation has no soul, no conscience - it is not a person.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

I dint have an issue with Christianity, I attended Catholic schools for 12 of my 20 years of formal education, including law school. (Again, insert joke about Catholics not being Christians here).

I have an issue with the particular sect of Christianity which believes in a literal Bible, is anti-evolution, believes the earth is only 6000 years old, pushes for creationism in biology rather than theology class, and generally acts like their particular version of Christianity is not only the correct one but that they speak for all Christendom whenever they open their mouths.

Many believe that the earth is older than 6000 yo and therefore have Christianity as a nonstarter. IMO the problem is not that they don't believe that 6000 is the age of the earth...problem is that they've already determined that there is only one version of Christianity. And they don't believe in it. To me, whether the Bible is literal or not is a non issue...read it once and you know what matters.

I have a couple of friends that are giving up a good chunk of an upcoming month to go to a third world country...risking themselves as well as helping construct shelters for the destitute and delivering rare medications to locals in need. Oh and like millions of other Christians, they give without really caring how old the earth is.

 

[LynahFan]

As I said, the corporation is a legal entity. It can be sued, it can pay taxes, pay bills, sell products, etc. Corporations do not have freedom of speech, religion etc. The corporation has no soul, no conscience - it is not a person.

Can it own property? If so, is that property secure, requiring a warrant issued only upon probable cause prior to a search?

Corporations clearly are not people, but they clearly have some Constitutional rights (property, contracts, searches, etc). Whether they have freedom of speech is simply a matter of where you draw the line.

 

[LynahFan]

Many believe that the earth is older than 6000 yo and therefore have Christianity as a nonstarter. IMO the problem is not that they don't believe that 6000 is the age of the earth...problem is that they've already determined that there is only one version of Christianity. And they don't believe in it. To me, whether the Bible is literal or not is a non issue...read it once and you know what matters.

I have a couple of friends that are giving up a good chunk of an upcoming month to go to a third world country...risking themselves as well as helping construct shelters for the destitute and delivering rare medications to locals in need. Oh and like millions of other Christians, they give without really caring how old the earth is.

I think you meant to say "like millions of people of all faiths..." christians don't have a monopoly on charity.

 

[burd]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Many believe that the earth is older than 6000 yo and therefore have Christianity as a nonstarter. IMO the problem is not that they don't believe that 6000 is the age of the earth...problem is that they've already determined that there is only one version of Christianity. And they don't believe in it. To me, whether the Bible is literal or not is a non issue...read it once and you know what matters.

To me problem is not the idea that if you read it once you know what matters, it's the idea that you will not know what matters unless you read it.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Each and every person at the Times has Constitutional rights, the Times does not.

hmm...who am I going to believe, you? or my own eyes.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. [emphasis added]

That seems pretty clear-cut to me: "the press" indeed does have a Constitutional right! How about that?




Not only that, but people also have the right to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Hmm....isn't one manner in which people "assemble" to organize either as a union or as a corporation? seems likely. and they can "assemble" to "petition the Government" too, if my eyes are working correctly this morning. So unions, and corporations, have the right to petition the government.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

hmm...who am I going to believe, you? or my own eyes.




That seems pretty clear-cut to me: "the press" indeed does have a Constitutional right! How about that?




Not only that, but people also have the right to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Hmm....isn't one manner in which people "assemble" to organize either as a union or as a corporation? seems likely. and they can "assemble" to "petition the Government" too, if my eyes are working correctly this morning. So unions, and corporations, have the right to petition the government.

Then give me the same rights as a corporation.

 

[Priceless]

Then give me the same rights as a corporation.

I wish I could kill people indiscriminately, swindle them out of money, ruin their lives and only have to pay a paltry fine. Immortality would be nice too.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Then give me the same rights as a corporation.

What rights do you think you're missing? Don't forget that we are guaranteed equal opportunity and equal treatment under the law - not equal outcomes.

 

[unofan]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Many believe that the earth is older than 6000 yo and therefore have Christianity as a nonstarter.

It's not Christianity that's a non-starter, it's the particular American evangelical version that is prevalent in politics that is a non-starter. When I hear people like my Godmother say, in all seriousness, that Obama is the anti-Christ, I tend to not give a flying fart about any of her remaining political opinions because she clearly cannot be reasoned with. Likewise when people say the Earth is only 6000 years old, they are not being rational and it will cast doubt on everything else they claim as fact.

 

[Priceless]

hmm...who am I going to believe, you? or my own eyes.




That seems pretty clear-cut to me: "the press" indeed does have a Constitutional right! How about that?




Not only that, but people also have the right to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Hmm....isn't one manner in which people "assemble" to organize either as a union or as a corporation? seems likely. and they can "assemble" to "petition the Government" too, if my eyes are working correctly this morning. So unions, and corporations, have the right to petition the government.

The flesh and blood humans who work in the press have all those rights.

Do you believe a corporation has a conscience? A soul? Can the corporation be jailed for crimes it commits?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

What rights do you think you're missing? Don't forget that we are guaranteed equal opportunity and equal treatment under the law - not equal outcomes.

Well, for one, the right to pay zero taxes (General Electric) and the right to declare myself a citizen of another country for the sole purpose of paying zero taxes (Mylan). Somehow I'm not afforded those rights. There's also the one about how if I get sued it's the corporation getting sued not me personally.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/ehvwjx/inversion-of-the-money-snatchers

 

[Handyman]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

So then we can assume corporations can go to prison right? I mean if they are people they have to live under the same rules right? Shouldnt certain companies like say CitiGroup or any of the banks that committed fraud by foreclosing on houses without notice and before they had a right to, be locked up? I will hang up and listen.

Why do I have a feeling there will be some long winded answer as to why they shouldnt that wont actually answer my question...

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Do you believe a corporation has a conscience? A soul? Can the corporation be jailed for crimes it commits?

What do these non sequiters have to do with freedom of the press, or the right of people peacably to assemble to petition their government?


Are you suggesting that we need to repeal the First Amendment and replace it with something else?