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The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

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Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

aparch said:
The countdown continues. An interesting take on NMU's stance and opinions: http://miningjournal.net/page/conte...uss-travel-subsidy-with-members.html?nav=5010

Interesting tid-bits: Biggest hangup? Travel subsidies. Teams want to know they can get to UAH in minimal hops without it looking like a remake of Planes, Trains, and Automobiles. UAH's athletic director retorted that "We shoot rockets into space. We have an airport, an interstate, and a half-million people in the metro area."

I'm pretty sure that was a dig at the rest of the WCHA. Only other schools with an Interstate are BGSU and LSSU. The Alaska Interstates are unsigned, and only partially built to national freeway standards.

UAH will also submit a 10 team schedule matrix. I presume that would be immediately implemented and UAH granted membership for the 2013-14 season. This would immediately lessen concerns by WCHA schools in traveling to Alaska twice a schedule year.


Also burried at the bottom: The WCHA hopes to finalize staffs and budgets; finalize conference tournament plans (expected to alternate between Xcel and Van Andel); discuss standardized web streaming; and a redesigned WCHA logo.

In other words, someone involved with the WCHA is either thinking identically to us in this thread, or they're just stealing our ideas. :P

If it's the latter, where can I submit my resume to Bruce McLeod?
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I think the big thing is quite a few of us have brought up our concerns to our schools. I know THG has pushed Michigan Tech in trying to standardize web streaming, etc.
 
Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

aygwm2 said:
As a side note: Is the new WCHA logo going to have the small n at the beginning?
Click to expand...

As you may remember, the revised "Super Sized W" was changed to remind us all that "The WCHA just got tougher..." a few years back. I see no reason that the "n" can't be added to remind us of our new conference slogan: "The WCHA just got newer..." That seems like something Bruce and his staff would come up with, no? Or they could take it one step further and make the new logo:
nWCHA
"The WCHA - Now with THREE font sizes and covering more time zones than even so called 'National' conferences!"

No, wait - since we're adding UAH Now for the Good of Everyone, I think we also should add a lower case "nge" as well. Also I would like to buy a vowel for $250... and "o".
NOW CHANGE

Ryan J
 
Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

The bottom line will be dollars and cents. If they can get NMU to Huntsville with no more expense than NMU would spend going to Ferris State, or Michigan Tech there for no more than the cost of a trip to Bemidji, their chances improve greatly. But if it costs $2-3-5,000 more than the average trip, none of these schools will want to write a check to the Save Huntsville fund. I'm hoping that they get it done. It's a very good school, a terrific town, and I'm told by a friend who runs their Indoor Football team in Huntsville, that the arena renovations are outstanding. I would certainly look forward to a stop for some BBQ at Dreamland!
 
Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

davyd83 said:
The bottom line will be dollars and cents. If they can get NMU to Huntsville with no more expense than NMU would spend going to Ferris State, or Michigan Tech there for no more than the cost of a trip to Bemidji, their chances improve greatly. But if it costs $2-3-5,000 more than the average trip, none of these schools will want to write a check to the Save Huntsville fund. I'm hoping that they get it done. It's a very good school, a terrific town, and I'm told by a friend who runs their Indoor Football team in Huntsville, that the arena renovations are outstanding. I would certainly look forward to a stop for some BBQ at Dreamland!
Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to Waffle House!
 
Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Let me give you a few details on costs to travel. Let's say the average bus costs 3.50 per statute mile. Add in the relief driver and the overnight motel rooms for the driver(s), etc. you have roughly 4 dollars per mile, maybe more. If you chartered an aircraft as the Southwest Conference teams do, it would cost roughly 8.50 per nautical mile. ( they pay more down there, almost 12 dollars, but have a crappy aircraft that they use)
so how does this compare? here's a few trips.

Mankato to Big Rapids. 666 statute miles on the bus, costing $5328 @ 4 dollars) overall it takes over 11 hours. If you chartered, it costs $6290, and takes 1 hour 19 minutes.
Mankato to Bowling Green. 686 miles driving, taking 11, hours 23 minutes, costing over 5488 dollars. Flying into Toledo, 1 hour 42 minutes, costing 8100. Now figure in the cost of spending at least one additional night in a hotel for the team, etc, etc.

Here is another one:Bemidji to Big Rapids- 867 statute miles, taking 14 hours 9 minutes each way and costing roughly $7000 just for the bus. On a charter, 460 Nautical miles, costing 7820 and taking 1 hour and 38 minutes.

So I ask you, isn't a charter the way to go even if it is somewhat more expensive? I mean isn't the kids time and the coaches time worth something? And what about the extra motel rooms you most likely will buy using the bus, oh and the extra meals for everyone too, and what about the class time missed, shouldn't that count for something?. .. Are we really going to force coaches and kids to ride the bus for 14 hours non stop twice in four days?

Also the Alaska schools. Getting in and out of our cities is not easy on the scheduled carriers. BUT.. What if you flew them into Minneapolis every time and then chartered them out to where ever. If one Alaska school stayed in Alaska, you could fly a team into minny and they could airline out from there, and another team out of minny to their game, essentially every weekend. Couldn't you save money on airline tickets, and at least two extra days every trip? The big issue with the airplane is how to get it to the team since empty legs cost money just like full ones, which can run up the price big time if you aren't careful..
The airplane has a big advantage when the bus has to go out of a straight line to get to the destination, like around Lake Michigan. I'll work out the trips to Hunstville if anyone wants them.
 
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Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

manurespreader said:
Let me give you a few details on costs to travel. Let's say the average bus costs 3.50 per statute mile. Add in the relief driver and the overnight motel rooms for the driver(s), etc. you have roughly 4 dollars per mile, maybe more. If you chartered an aircraft as the Southwest Conference teams do, it would cost roughly 8.50 per nautical mile. ( they pay more down there, almost 12 dollars, but have a crappy aircraft that they use)
so how does this compare? here's a few trips.

Mankato to Big Rapids. 666 statute miles on the bus, costing $5328 @ 4 dollars) overall it takes over 11 hours. If you chartered, it costs $6290, and takes 1 hour 19 minutes.
Mankato to Bowling Green. 686 miles driving, taking 11, hours 23 minutes, costing over 5488 dollars. Flying into Toledo, 1 hour 42 minutes, costing 8100. Now figure in the cost of spending at least one additional night in a hotel for the team, etc, etc.

Here is another one:Bemidji to Big Rapids- 867 statute miles, taking 14 hours 9 minutes each way and costing roughly $7000 just for the bus. On a charter, 460 Nautical miles, costing 7820 and tasking 1 hour and 38 minutes.

So I ask you, isn't a charter the way to go even if it is somewhat more expensive? I mean isn't the kids time and the coaches time worth something? And what about the extra motel rooms you most likely will buy using the bus, oh and the extra meals for everyone too, and what about the class time missed, shouldn't that count for something?. .. Are we really going to force coaches and kids to ride the bus for 14 hours non stop twice in four days?

Also the Alaska schools. Getting in and out of our cities is not easy on the scheduled carriers. BUT.. What if you flew them into Minneapolis every time and then chartered them out to where ever. If one Alaska school stayed in Alaska, you could fly a team into minny and they could airline out from there, and another team out of minny to their game, essentially every weekend. Couldn't you save money on airline tickets, and at least two extra days every trip? The big issue with the airplane is how to get it to the team since empty legs cost money just like full ones, which can run up the price big time if you aren't careful..
The airplane has a big advantage when the bus has to go out of a straight line to get to the destination, like around Lake Michigan. I'll work out the trips to Hunstville if anyone wants them.
Click to expand...
Ok first big question, how does the cost of a charter plane change due to the extra weight for equipment a hockey team has compared to other sports teams? Can whatever flight a WCHA team charters fly the team, coaches, staff, equipment for the quoted $8.50/nautical mile?
 
Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Shirtless Guy said:
Ok first big question, how does the cost of a charter plane change due to the extra weight for equipment a hockey team has compared to other sports teams? Can whatever flight a WCHA team charters fly the team, coaches, staff, equipment for the quoted $8.50/nautical mile?
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there are a few details that are an issue, depending on the airplane used. Some airplanes have no problem, others do. Overall the 8.50 would cover everything, however, if the weather was bad and an alternate airfield required, and the destination more than 1.4 hours away, then additional fuel is needed, which would mean that either you ship the bags separately or you have to stop somewhere to get more gas. I'd say you ship the equipment on a truck and go there direct. The airplanes used generally hold 33 or 34 people, so if you carry a big entourage, then maybe you have a problem carrying everyone, but generally you won't. Obviously on the real long legs,( say over 2 hours) fewer people equates to more range, again depending on the airplane. Some airplanes can carry all of the equipment and people etc, and still go pretty far, other can't.
the real issue is how to minimize empty flying.

another issue is who pays for you to get around once you get to the destination city. If the host team can come pick you up and ride you around this would be terrific. If you have to arrange a bus for this on your own, it can add up because bus companies will charge you almost a full day even if you only use the bus for 20 minutes.
 
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Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Shirtless Guy said:
Ok first big question, how does the cost of a charter plane change due to the extra weight for equipment a hockey team has compared to other sports teams? Can whatever flight a WCHA team charters fly the team, coaches, staff, equipment for the quoted $8.50/nautical mile?
Click to expand...
Cost of a charter is usually a flat rate per mile or hour (I'm also going to assume manurespreader's numbers include cost for the pilots, etc...). Just need to keep it below the maximum take off weight of the aircraft.
 
Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Article updated with Bruce McLeod quotes:
http://miningjournal.net/page/conte...uss-travel-subsidy-with-members.html?nav=5010

WCHA commissioner Bruce McLeod said a travel subsidy from UAH is not only a major concern for rest of the league, but for him as well.

Only McLeod wants to know whether or not the Chargers can afford the costs of hotel rooms, place tickets and ground transportation for the other nine league members, while still being competitive.
Click to expand...

Air and ground transportation I understand, but I'm curious about hotel rooms. Do the Alaska teams help with this, too? I'm just curious. It would seem to be that, while hotel rates vary by location, it's a cost that's generally not dependent on the distance between teams.

Also, wouldn't it be the other seven continental U.S. teams? I would think we'd have cancelling-out travel subsidies if we're talking about between UAH and the Alaska schools.
 
Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

UAHStatman said:
Article updated with Bruce McLeod quotes:
http://miningjournal.net/page/conte...uss-travel-subsidy-with-members.html?nav=5010



Air and ground transportation I understand, but I'm curious about hotel rooms. Do the Alaska teams help with this, too? I'm just curious. It would seem to be that, while hotel rates vary by location, it's a cost that's generally not dependent on the distance between teams.

Also, wouldn't it be the other seven continental U.S. teams? I would think we'd have cancelling-out travel subsidies if we're talking about between UAH and the Alaska schools.
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there is no guarantee that a new member like UAH would get subsidies from the Alaska schools but the Alaska schools may want subsidies for travel (which frankly doesn't make sense, since Huntsville is probably cheaper/easier to get to than alot of the rest of the WCHA for UAA/UAF).
 
Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

The cost of a ticket from Marquette to Huntsville is 1700 dollars with a stop in Detroit. Let's say you can get it down to 1500. that's still a lot. For 29 people it's 43,500. For a charter it's 3.6 hours and costs 14,500 round trip, very roughly,But if you are from Anchorage, it's two stops, and about 800 dollars round trip, but it takes a really long time.
 
Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Shirtless Guy said:
there is no guarantee that a new member like UAH would get subsidies from the Alaska schools but the Alaska schools may want subsidies for travel (which frankly doesn't make sense, since Huntsville is probably cheaper/easier to get to than alot of the rest of the WCHA for UAA/UAF).
Click to expand...

I doubt Huntsville would get subsidies from the Alaska schools, but that's just an educated guess. UAA had to agree to pay subsidies to existing WCHA schools in exchange for their acceptance to the League in 1993. Mankato, Bimidji and UNO joined after UAA and it is my understanding that UAA did not have to subsidize those schools. They still benefited monetarily, however, since teams playing in Alaska get two additonal games on their schedule, worth thousands of dollars for those programs. Huntsville does not offer any such incentive. UAA and UAF paid their dues BIG TIME, I see no reason why they shouldn't be on the receiving end of travel subsidies from Huntsville.
 
Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Travel subsidy is an issue that concerns me on behalf of Huntsville. I wonder if Huntsville has one proposal with travel subsidy and one without. Based on the previously linked article, they have a mock 10 member schedule which demonstrates that total travel cost wouldn't be so bad (reducing Alaska trips). I hope they can demonstrate the cost effectiveness quite clearly though. I could see nWCHA requesting (or extorting) Huntsville to include it regardless, since well all know who has the leverage here.
 
Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

davyd83 said:
No dig, just matter of fact. The dig may be at the perception some may have about Huntsville, Alabama.
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I think that EJ's point was that it's not that hard to get here and that we're a sizable city and kind of a big deal. ;)

GFM
 
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