The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

[uaafanblog]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

The result of an unbalanced conference schedule cannot by it's very nature ever truly result in a mathematically accurate regular season confernce winner.

If you have 10 teams then you play 9 of them either twice or three times each. The first results in an 18 game conference sched and the latter results in a 27 game sched. Either of which can easily be accomplished with a single trip to each opponent (2 game weekend or 3 game weekend). If you choose 18 games then you have 16 non-conference games which gives each school an opportunity to decide how to best strategically fill the games for their Pairwise comparisons. This is preferable to me. It does however mean that filling the non-conference schedule is a bit more of a pain for coaches.

Filling it with in-conference teams is a simple option though whereby individual teams can maintain or create rivalries as they wish (i.e.. BSU could play Mankato FOUR more times or an additional example migh have UAH host 2 tournaments a year or Ferris Wheel, Butt Gravy State, Late Supper State, Northern and Tech could have an early season 6 team tournament where they invite some out of conference team ... creative possibilities abound).

The league is already stupidly forcing the Alaska teams to face each other in the playoffs regardless of placing. In return for that, the league should allow them to fill their non-conference schedules. It would be a conciliation for equity's sake. UAA and UAF are clearly going to pony up whatever fundage is necessary to maintain happiness for those schools that are so egregiously forced to go all the way to Alaska ... so let them choose who they want to pay for.

 

[JohnsonsJerseys]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Either of which can easily be accomplished with a single trip to each opponent (2 game weekend or 3 game weekend).

Well a three game series would certainly be thinking outside the box, but I don't think it could work. It would take a physical toll on the players as you're playing three games in roughly a 48 hour period. That's ok for baseball, but pretty tough sledding for a physical sport like hockey. Also in college hockey, you're largely counting on getting the same fans to attend every game for your gate money. I don't think I would want to see the same team three nights in a row. Something like a round robin tourney where you play a new team each night is fine, but that's not really what you were hinting at with your post. I'll still give you a B+ for something new because that is what the WCHA is going to need going forward - creative thinkers and risk takers.

Ryan J

PS I'm glad some AK fans are equally unsupportive of playing each other to open the playoffs. Why even worry about the regular season schedule when you're going to throw a wrench like that into the standings when the regular season is over.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

The result of an unbalanced conference schedule cannot by it's very nature ever truly result in a mathematically accurate regular season confernce winner.

If you have 10 teams then you play 9 of them either twice or three times each. The first results in an 18 game conference sched and the latter results in a 27 game sched. Either of which can easily be accomplished with a single trip to each opponent (2 game weekend or 3 game weekend). If you choose 18 games then you have 16 non-conference games which gives each school an opportunity to decide how to best strategically fill the games for their Pairwise comparisons. This is preferable to me. It does however mean that filling the non-conference schedule is a bit more of a pain for coaches.

Filling it with in-conference teams is a simple option though whereby individual teams can maintain or create rivalries as they wish (i.e.. BSU could play Mankato FOUR more times or an additional example migh have UAH host 2 tournaments a year or Ferris Wheel, Butt Gravy State, Late Supper State, Northern and Tech could have an early season 6 team tournament where they invite some out of conference team ... creative possibilities abound).

The league is already stupidly forcing the Alaska teams to face each other in the playoffs regardless of placing. In return for that, the league should allow them to fill their non-conference schedules. It would be a conciliation for equity's sake. UAA and UAF are clearly going to pony up whatever fundage is necessary to maintain happiness for those schools that are so egregiously forced to go all the way to Alaska ... so let them choose who they want to pay for.

IF you go with 27 games, that still isnt' a truly balanced schedule because there is certainly a difference in playing at home or away, especially if we did a 3 game series where the home team has the advantage of subbing anyone on their roster for the 2nd and 3rd games...An 18 game schedule is pretty silly if you ask me. Unbalanced schedules have been the norm for a very long time and will likely continue.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

IF you go with 27 games, that still isnt' a truly balanced schedule because there is certainly a difference in playing at home or away, especially if we did a 3 game series where the home team has the advantage of subbing anyone on their roster for the 2nd and 3rd games...An 18 game schedule is pretty silly if you ask me. Unbalanced schedules have been the norm for a very long time and will likely continue.

As a league one must have getting as many teams into the NCAA's as possible. Right now there is a guarantee of 1 and who get's that 1? The conference tournament winner. Not the league winner. Here is the obvious example my solution avoids ... UAA and UAF finish 1 and 2 in the league, they play the stupid forced playoff and UAF wins it. They go to the WCHA tournament and win that and get the sole NCAA bid. If the schedule was on 18 games and UAA finished with a record of say 22-10-2 with a some decent non-conference Pairwise comparisons then maybe the league gets 2 bids?

Beating up on each other isn't a path to maximizing NCAA bids ... we've clearly seen that in the current WCHA with it's 28 game insular sched. Or lets say that UAA finished last in the league with a 5-25-4 record and Fairbanks barely finishes first with a 17-11-6 record ahead of three teams who finished 18-14-2; 17-15-2 and 17-16-1, UAA beats UAF to advance to the WCHA tournament and rides the back of a hot goalie to win the WCHA tourney. They get the NCAA bid and you've got the 10th place team in the tournament representing your league and maybe nothing else. Allowing teams to try to somewhat control their Pairwise fate is about the only way to try to get a leg up on the selection process ... so maybe if 3 of UAF's 17 wins came against the HE winner, the Big10 winner and the BHHC winner they'd get in.

Smaller league schedule is better. 28 games against the same nine opponents helps nobody. We know this already.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

As a league one must have getting as many teams into the NCAA's as possible. Right now there is a guarantee of 1 and who get's that 1? The conference tournament winner. Not the league winner. Here is the obvious example my solution avoids ... UAA and UAF finish 1 and 2 in the league, they play the stupid forced playoff and UAF wins it. They go to the WCHA tournament and win that and get the sole NCAA bid. If the schedule was on 18 games and UAA finished with a record of say 22-10-2 with a some decent non-conference Pairwise comparisons then maybe the league gets 2 bids?

Beating up on each other isn't a path to maximizing NCAA bids ... we've clearly seen that in the current WCHA with it's 28 game insular sched. Or lets say that UAA finished last in the league with a 5-25-4 record and Fairbanks barely finishes first with a 17-11-6 record ahead of three teams who finished 18-14-2; 17-15-2 and 17-16-1, UAA beats UAF to advance to the WCHA tournament and rides the back of a hot goalie to win the WCHA tourney. They get the NCAA bid and you've got the 10th place team in the tournament representing your league and maybe nothing else. Allowing teams to try to somewhat control their Pairwise fate is about the only way to try to get a leg up on the selection process ... so maybe if 3 of UAF's 17 wins came against the HE winner, the Big10 winner and the BHHC winner they'd get in.

Smaller league schedule is better. 28 games against the same nine opponents helps nobody. We know this already.

Yes but and it's a big but.... non conference games cost more to hold than conference games.

I'd love to see a middle ground. Something like 24 conference games and the exemption getting you to 34. That should get you plenty of non conference games and still a good number of conference ones. I think the reality is that some teams such as the Minnesota ones, will prefer more non con games and other might not. Non con games are not as easy to come by as you would think, especially if you are teams in our league.

anyway interesting discussion no matter what.

 

[beaverhockeyfan]

Yes but and it's a big but.... non conference games cost more to hold than conference games.

I'd love to see a middle ground. Something like 24 conference games and the exemption getting you to 34. That should get you plenty of non conference games and still a good number of conference ones. I think the reality is that some teams such as the Minnesota ones, will prefer more non con games and other might not. Non con games are not as easy to come by as you would think, especially if you are teams in our league.

anyway interesting discussion no matter what.

I think you are right on, especially with Bemidji, on wanting to maximize nonconference games. The already will be playing either the Gophers or in the Minnesota Cup every year. I can see them and North Dakota and Duluth continuing to plat each other based on how much they played when BSU was in the CHA. There are six games a year right there.

I was just kind of talking out loud when I proposed my scheduling proposal. I guess it got the conversation started again!

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Yes but and it's a big but.... non conference games cost more to hold than conference games.

I'd love to see a middle ground. Something like 24 conference games and the exemption getting you to 34. That should get you plenty of non conference games and still a good number of conference ones. I think the reality is that some teams such as the Minnesota ones, will prefer more non con games and other might not. Non con games are not as easy to come by as you would think, especially if you are teams in our league.

anyway interesting discussion no matter what.

Not to be rude but I feel like I've said this a hundred times in the last year or so ... you can play non-conference games against conference opponents. Non-conference games ARE DEFINITELY NOT HARD TO COME BY. Flexible scheduling is better than mandated scheduling blah blah blah ... yada yada yada ... etcetera.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Yes but and it's a big but.... non conference games cost more to hold than conference games.

They do, but it's more about the flexibility. There are advantages and disadvantages to 28 vs. 24 conference games. With Mel at the helm for Tech, I think the positives likely outweigh the negatives for us, however some schools probably would not agree.

 

[LSSULaker889294]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

This is my guess if the WCHA went to a ten team, two division setup with the Alaska schools in different divisions:

East: LSSU, FSU, BGSU, UAH, UAF
West: NMU, MTU, BSU, MSUM, UAA

x4 Four teams in your division = 16 games
x4 Rival from other division= 4 games (Rivals I guess would be LSSU/NMU, Tech/Ferris, UAF/UAA, Bemidj/UAH, Mankato/BGSU)
x2 Four other teams from other division= 8 games
=28 games

 

[gfmorris]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Non-conference games ARE DEFINITELY NOT HARD TO COME BY.

If you don't mind playing 20/22 on the road, sure. The norm for UAH since going D-I is either 12 or 14 home games, usually the latter, with 10 being conference games. Clearly this year is a special case given that our home schedule was wiped out by the near-cancellation of our program, but simply put: you can get non-conference games as a smaller school if you're willing to be on the road 2/3 of the time.

I may be just a little cranky about this right now given that our guys played Sat-Sun at Northeastern and hopped a bus tonight to go to Lake State. That's a hard physical toll on anyone, to say nothing of the fact that our student-athletes had a two-day week of classes. UAH is hard. I'll be happy if they can hold a 2.7 GPA this semester given six straight road weekends and no breaks between season start and exams.

GFM

 

[gfmorris]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

This is my guess if the WCHA went to a ten team, two division setup with the Alaska schools in different divisions:

East: LSSU, FSU, BGSU, UAH, UAF
West: NMU, MTU, BSU, MSUM, UAA

x4 Four teams in your division = 16 games
x4 Rival from other division= 4 games (Rivals I guess would be LSSU/NMU, Tech/Ferris, UAF/UAA, Bemidj/UAH, Mankato/BGSU)
x2 Four other teams from other division= 8 games
=28 games

That would be my expectation. Our people have hammered away on Alaska-Alabama being easier than Alaska-Alaska, financially and otherwise.

GFM

 

[JohnsonsJerseys]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

(Rivals I guess would be LSSU/NMU, Tech/Ferris, UAF/UAA, Bemidj/UAH, Mankato/BGSU)

Well there will never be a perfect schedule that makes everyone happy, but I can tell you that MTU / FSU is not a rivalry unless there is bench clearing brawl in the first game that spills into the stands and out into the parking lot. I can appreciate your desire to pound on NMU so many times a year but don't forget to share - there are others in the UP that enjoy doing like wise.

Also I'm sure Mankato and BGSU would take a while to get rev'd up without much past history between them. The other pairings are pretty solid.

Ryan J

 

[aparch]

Well there will never be a perfect schedule that makes everyone happy, but I can tell you that MTU / FSU is not a rivalry unless there is bench clearing brawl in the first game that spills into the stands and out into the parking lot. I can appreciate your desire to pound on NMU so many times a year but don't forget to share - there are others in the UP that enjoy doing like wise.

Also I'm sure Mankato and BGSU would take a while to get rev'd up without much past history between them. The other pairings are pretty solid.

Ryan J

Since NMU/MTU is already in the same cluster under this proposal, then give NMU the FSU rivalry. Then MTU can beat up on LSSU. It can be a Jan / Marsha Brady type situation considering their schools history.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

If you don't mind playing 20/22 on the road, sure.

Cos your conference brethren are going to demand that you come to their rink to play a non-conference game and reject the idea that they should come to yours.

ONE LAST TIME ... non-conference games can be played against conference members.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

No one wants to do that Donald, stop beating the dead horse, we heard you...who wants to play games against conference opponents that doesn't count in the standings?

 

[Lakers2Glory]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Since NMU/MTU is already in the same cluster under this proposal, then give NMU the FSU rivalry. Then MTU can beat up on LSSU. It can be a Jan / Marsha Brady type situation considering their schools history.

I hope by "schools history" you mean a combined 6 National Championships (plus 2 NAIA), 11 Conference Championships, over 200 players gone pro, and several notable Olympian and Stanley Cup winners?

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

I hope by "schools history" you mean a combined 6 National Championships (plus 2 NAIA), 11 Conference Championships, over 200 players gone pro, and several notable Olympian and Stanley Cup winners?

I believe he means that Michigan Tech created LSSU...

 

[Bale]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Well there will never be a perfect schedule that makes everyone happy, but I can tell you that MTU / FSU is not a rivalry unless there is bench clearing brawl in the first game that spills into the stands and out into the parking lot. I can appreciate your desire to pound on NMU so many times a year but don't forget to share - there are others in the UP that enjoy doing like wise.

Also I'm sure Mankato and BGSU would take a while to get rev'd up without much past history between them. The other pairings are pretty solid.

Ryan J

While I understand the relationship between BSU and UAH, I would be shocked if MSU and BSU were not matched up. It will be much easier to make that into a long standing rivalry due to the proximity of the 2 schools.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

No one wants to do that Donald, stop beating the dead horse, we heard you...who wants to play games against conference opponents that doesn't count in the standings?

And as many times as I've said it ... apparently some people still don't understand the concept.

It's beyond foolish to talk about 28 game schedules in a ten team league when limited by a 34 game schedule when you've seen exactly how crappy that worked out in the current league. Pretend "rivalries" and "clusters" and whatever ... it's nonsense. There's an opportunity in setting up a new conference to introduce new ideas and new ways to do things. Or there's the path of the status-quo.

Play an 18 game conference schedule. Hockey East has been playing conference opponents in non-conference games for years.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Hockey East has been playing conference opponents in non-conference games for years.

Yeah, its called the "Beanpot".