The new Super League is going down the tubes.

[stuckinwi]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

The little guys still get their shot in a couple of ways.

First off, you can still win. You can still qualify for the national tourney. You can still win it all. We're not talking BCS-level-exclusion here. You still have all the access you had before. The only thing you lose is playing North Dakota, Denver, St. Cloud, UNO, and CC each year. Now, you'll play Lake Superior, Northern Michigan, Ferris State, and Fairbanks instead. That's a wash.

Second off, we're really just re-defining the "little guys" and you're a bit bitter that you're not included in the new definition. CC is a little guy. CC is THE quintessential little guy. My high school was about 10 blocks from CC - and which do you think was the bigger school? Yes, my high school. CC is the little guy.

As for the rest...times change. A lot of that "caring" was illusory to begin with. It's a different world now for collegiate athletics all around. Adapt or die.

If those sets of teams are a wash, why do the conferences need to change at all? CC is only along because of Denver. I'm looking forward to who is the doorstep of the new conference and hope that the new WHCA teams look the east or to the BTHC for non-conference games.

I still have yet to see a good reason to drop a turd on the WCHA, it would have been fine without MN and WI.

And all the talk about how the WHCA "needs" to take in UAH for the better of college hockey... What the hell? Why is the betterment of college hockey falling on the remaining WCHA teams while NCHC cherry picks those they feel are special enough to join them? As far as I'm concerned that group has absolutely no ground to stand on when it comes to the "betterment" of college hockey. Bunch of hypocrites... Tell the teams in the WCHA they aren't good enough and aren't spending enough money on the sport then insist they take in one of the longest possible road trips in the sport in addition to the Alaska teams? (yes I know about the flights subsidies, etc). Do you guys not see how absurd that position is? My goodness people...

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Folks, this statement proves how little he really knows about the college hockey landscape.

In the other thread you (and everybody else) have been saying that CC and DU aren't a big draw. North Dakota? St. Cloud? That's it? Michigan Tech's hockey program relies on two games against the Sioux every year for its very survival? Pathetic. If you can't draw a crowd to Northern Michigan or LSSU, you deserve to fail.

 

[bronconick]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Let's be honest here. No one that was playing in the CCHA and WCHA has clean hands. The CCHA voted against UAH two years ago. Before that, Anastos told Wayne State they were never getting into the conference. They're gone now. The Big Ten schools voted to create a BTHC, which gives lie to the idea that it would have automatically formed. You don't need to vote on automatic. The WCHA voted to invite Miami and Notre Dame well before the NCHC was announced, which would have left the remaining 6 CCHA schools in a recreation of the CHA, making all the howling now that they've been stabbed in the back rather amusing. Apparently it was fine to let my school rot in a sub-standard conference, but if it's yours, it's the end of college hockey.

The only "western" team without blood on their hands is UAH, and that's because we tied them behind their back while we all take turns kicking them in the stomach.

 

[stuckinwi]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

In the other thread you (and everybody else) have been saying that CC and DU aren't a big draw. North Dakota? St. Cloud? That's it? Michigan Tech's hockey program relies on two games against the Sioux every year for its very survival? Pathetic. If you can't draw a crowd to Northern Michigan or LSSU, you deserve to fail.

No team in Houghton has been a draw the last few years... even Northern. But Tech just dropped major coin on coaching and the SDC is not a shabby facility... How is that not a commitment to hockey from an institution where hockey is the focal point sport? Is that what the NCHC stands for? Isn't that what the WHCA stood for and still would have without WI and MN? I fail to see how Miami and WMU are viable replacements to those two....

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

If those sets of teams are a wash, why do the conferences need to change at all? CC is only along because of Denver. I'm looking forward to who is the doorstep of the new conference and hope that the new WHCA teams look the east or to the BTHC for non-conference games.

It's not a wash for the NCHC. It definitely provides a more exciting line-up. I think it's a wash specifically for Tech. It's not a wash for Bemidji or Mankato, definitely not, unless they can get some in-state non-conference scheduling guarantees. But that's also not my problem. It's better for the NCHC programs, and that's all that matters. Call it arrogance - I call it honesty. Any AD who isn't looking out for his school, first and only, is doing that school a disservice and should be fired.

And all the talk about how the WHCA "needs" to take in UAH for the better of college hockey... What the hell? Why is the betterment of college hockey falling on the remaining WCHA teams while NCHC cherry picks those they feel are special enough to join them? As far as I'm concerned that group has absolutely no ground to stand on when it comes to the "betterment" of college hockey. Bunch of hypocrites... Tell the teams in the WCHA they aren't good enough and aren't spending enough money on the sport then insist they take in one of the longest possible road trips in the sport in addition to the Alaska teams? (yes I know about the flights subsidies, etc). Do you guys not see how absurd that position is? My goodness people...

No hypocrisy at all. I am saying very clearly that I don't care about the future of Alabama hockey. If the WCHA crowd defines the "betterment" of college hockey as adding as many programs as possible, wherever they happen to be, then it needs to be the forum for that expansion. I think the NCHC is very clear in its intentions - quality, not quantity. I couldn't care less if marginal programs in places like Alabama (or even Bowling Green) survive. I mean, I'll say I care, because that's the politically correct thing to say (as all the NCHC college will)... but really, I honestly don't much care.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

In the other thread you (and everybody else) have been saying that CC and DU aren't a big draw. North Dakota? St. Cloud? That's it? Michigan Tech's hockey program relies on two games against the Sioux every year for its very survival? Pathetic. If you can't draw a crowd to Northern Michigan or LSSU, you deserve to fail.

You do realize that UND draws 19K to any and all games, right? And I've been to an NMU-MTU home-and-home series. It's terrible. And they are rivals. I can't imagine LSSU is any better.

And how will the sport grow in quality if no start-up teams can get into a conference with established good schools? How? It's unbelievable how stupid you are. Zero comprehension of the concept of "healthy growth" even with provided examples (current and past), how programs will disappear because of these changes, and the lack of scope of the landscape (I will give you a tiny bit of credit, since you admitted a lack of knowledge on a couple minor points).

 

[Priceless]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Folks, this statement proves how little he really knows about the college hockey landscape.

Hmmm in one breath he says they're "elite" and then he compares them to LSSU, NMU etc and says it's "a wash." Something here don't add up.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

No team in Houghton has been a draw the last few years... even Northern. But Tech just dropped major coin on coaching and the SDC is not a shabby facility... How is that not a commitment to hockey from an institution where hockey is the focal point sport? Is that what the NCHC stands for? Isn't that what the WHCA stood for and still would have without WI and MN? I fail to see how Miami and WMU are viable replacements to those two....

Given the choice, if I could have gotten Northern too, I might have taken those two for the NCHC. I have always felt Tech was better competition than Bemidji and Mankato (bleh). Good memories and history with Tech. But Miami is a bigger name, and somebody thought they were a better fit. But that's semantics. Arguing details isn't the same as arguing that a new conference never should have happened. Not sure about Western... not sure what the rationale is, don't know much about them. I assume related to Miami or Notre Dame?

 

[The Rube]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I have always felt Tech was better competition than Bemidji and Mankato (bleh).

And I like MTU.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Are you really going to go there because of the name they chose, because it has "national" in it? That's a little petty.

Then they shouldn't market themselves as a national conference.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

You do realize that UND draws 19K to any and all games, right? And I've been to an NMU-MTU home-and-home series. It's terrible. And they are rivals. I can't imagine LSSU is any better.

And how will the sport grow in quality if no start-up teams can get into a conference with established good schools? How? It's unbelievable how stupid you are. Zero comprehension of the concept of "healthy growth" even with provided examples (current and past), how programs will disappear because of these changes, and the lack of scope of the landscape (I will give you a tiny bit of credit, since you admitted a lack of knowledge on a couple minor points).

It's not that I am stupid. It's that you're shortsighted and uncreative. I don't know how old you are, but you strike me as an old guy... stuck in the past, very little vision. It is not North Dakota's responsibility to fill your arena. Period. It's not your choice to make. If you can't fill up an arena playing a rival, then you have other problems that need addressing, independent of the greater college hockey landscape. Northern Michigan and LSSU are both former national champions, both with good tradition and history. I'd trade UNO for Northern in a heartbeat - I used to enjoy it when they came to Colorado Springs. If you guys can't build something with that - with three teams, relatively close together, in the same conference, all with good tradition, then you need to take a long hard look at your own program. Maybe spend less time on here complaining and blaming others for your problems, and more time out in your community doing outreach and marketing.

That goes for the whole state of Michigan actually. Less time complaining and blaming, more time working at the problem. You potentially have a very good thing going up there in the U.P. - if you can't see that, then shame on you.

Hmmm in one breath he says they're "elite" and then he compares them to LSSU, NMU etc and says it's "a wash." Something here don't add up.

Reading skills? I never uttered the word elite.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

And I like MTU.

Haha. Not on the ice, necessarily, but a better game. Bemidji and Mankato are boring. At least folks know where "Michigan" is. Can't say the same for the other two.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

It's not that I am stupid. It's that you're shortsighted and uncreative. I don't know how old you are, but you strike me as an old guy... stuck in the past, very little vision. It is not North Dakota's responsibility to fill your arena. .

Guess his age and which team he supports.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I'm not in the UP. And I have only been following college hockey for about a decade, so I am still learning the history.

That being said, if the NCHC wasn't formed, There would still be 10 teams in the WCHA, and 9 in the CCHA (who I hoped would finally get UAH in there to make 10 teams). HE is a little bloated (never liked more than 10 teams in a conference; made an exception for BSU/UNO to basically help BSU out).

However, if conferences wanted to go to 12, that would leave 4 spots open (2 each in the WCHA/CCHA), and due to the makeup of each conference, would have helped the healthy growth of college hockey.


On a personal note, I wish the WCHA would have gotten NMU instead of UNO, but that has been discussed to death when that whole process was happening.

 

[MUhawks628]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Guess his age and which team he supports.

Minnesota...29?

Do I win?!

 

[stuckinwi]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

It's not a wash for the NCHC. It definitely provides a more exciting line-up. I think it's a wash specifically for Tech. It's not a wash for Bemidji or Mankato, definitely not, unless they can get some in-state non-conference scheduling guarantees. But that's also not my problem. It's better for the NCHC programs, and that's all that matters. Call it arrogance - I call it honesty. Any AD who isn't looking out for his school, first and only, is doing that school a disservice and should be fired.

Fair enough, it is certainly both arrogant and honest, I will not argue that. I don't think you can disagree that one or more of the schools that are moving to the NCHC that used to enjoy going to the NCAAs on a regular basis are going to have to get used to not going anywhere near as often and that someone will end up on the floor of the conference on a fairly regular basis and those teams will be worse off. I'm looking at Western and UMD here. Yes both had AWESOME years last year, but that was in leagues where they had the opportunity to beat up on other cellar dwellers to rise up. They are those cellar dwellers in this new league. How is this better for them?

No hypocrisy at all. I am saying very clearly that I don't care about the future of Alabama hockey. If the WCHA crowd defines the "betterment" of college hockey as adding as many programs as possible, wherever they happen to be, then it needs to be the forum for that expansion. I think the NCHC is very clear in its intentions - quality, not quantity. I couldn't care less if marginal programs in places like Alabama (or even Bowling Green) survive. I mean, I'll say I care, because that's the politically correct thing to say (as all the NCHC college will)... but really, I honestly don't much care.

The NCHC is very clear in it's intentions, we think we don't need to play Tech, MSUM, BSU, or UAA. But we don't have the balls to say it, unlike you here Makes me wish the WHCA gave Denver the boot in the early 90's or CC in the 80's, but no... they took their turn and the bottom... No one **** on them.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I'm not in the UP. And I have only been following college hockey for about a decade, so I am still learning the history.

That being said, if the NCHC wasn't formed, There would still be 10 teams in the WCHA, and 9 in the CCHA (who I hoped would finally get UAH in there to make 10 teams). HE is a little bloated (never liked more than 10 teams in a conference; made an exception for BSU/UNO to basically help BSU out).

However, if conferences wanted to go to 12, that would leave 4 spots open (2 each in the WCHA/CCHA), and due to the makeup of each conference, would have helped the healthy growth of college hockey.


On a personal note, I wish the WCHA would have gotten NMU instead of UNO, but that has been discussed to death when that whole process was happening.

You shouldn't lecture me on knowledge of the landscape then. I've been (or my family was, back in the day before I had my own money) a season ticket holder since the mid-80s. I remember Tech not sucking, I watched a Northern Michigan national championship team, and I remember running back to the hotel between my own tournament games to watch Lake Superior State win yet another national title. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that DU and CC have had a good decade or so, and are in a position to form a new, more-interesting (for us) conference, but I am not under any delusions about the traditions at work here. CC and DU were two of the worst teams in the nation at the time LSSU was kicking some serious tail. But I really do believe the new WCHA should be better for Michigan Tech.

Not as much for Bemidji and Mankato... but I am also not going to accept responsibility for that little potential debacle, when the original Big-10 culprit is in their very own state. Until there are riots on the streets of St. Paul, they do not get to blame CC, DU, North Dakota, and now St. Cloud. Not to draw yet another football comparison, but when wee Baylor is threatened by the maneuvers of mighty Texas and A&M, they do not just stand by and watch - they drive to Austin and raise a stink.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Reading skills? I never uttered the word elite.

My apologies, Tundra said they were. Take your reading skills and shove them.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Fair enough, it is certainly both arrogant and honest, I will not argue that. I don't think you can disagree that one or more of the schools that are moving to the NCHC that used to enjoy going to the NCAAs on a regular basis are going to have to get used to not going anywhere near as often and that someone will end up on the floor of the conference on a fairly regular basis and those teams will be worse off. I'm looking at Western and UMD here. Yes both had AWESOME years last year, but that was in leagues where they had the opportunity to beat up on other cellar dwellers to rise up. They are those cellar dwellers in this new league. How is this better for them?

The NCHC is very clear in it's intentions, we think we don't need to play Tech, MSUM, BSU, or UAA. But we don't have the balls to say it, unlike you here Makes me wish the WHCA gave Denver the boot in the early 90's or CC in the 80's, but no... they took their turn and the bottom... No one **** on them.

I am very much afraid it'll be CC at the bottom. I don't want my children to watch games in an arena with 500 folks like I had to when I was little. But it's a very real possibility (and they won't have the Wisconsin drummers to take them in like I had).

 

[Priceless]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Haha. Not on the ice, necessarily, but a better game. Bemidji and Mankato are boring. At least folks know where "Michigan" is. Can't say the same for the other two.

And Miami is that football school in Florida, right?