The new Super League is going down the tubes.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

You would prefer big schools and large name-brand conferences stay out of hockey forever? Yes, I did see that as inevitable. I even hoped it was inevitable. An orderly transition would've been nice, but when has the NCAA ever done anything orderly vis a vis conferences? Hockey can't become one of the "big four" sports in the U.S. and remain outside the collegiate structure used by pretty much every other sport forever. You've never had that discussion with non-hockey people before, and tried to explain that college is not the normal path to the NHL? It's an easier path now than it's ever been before, though, which is probably why it got the Big 10's attention.

Haha, and charity seems to be big with you guys. The greater good. Wealth transfer. Big schools doing what's best for the smaller schools. Hockey as socialist endeavor.

You're funny. You think hockey is big in America and not a regional sport.

Baseball is huge in America and college isn't the normal path there either. But, don't let facts get in the way of your fantasy.

 

[GoBeavers]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

If your program is that good and that successful, it shouldn't matter who they are playing...people should want to go. That's what you don't understand about this whole thing. Where would DU be without UND, CC games? Sounds to me like you're in the same boat as the rest of the teams. You need other big time programs for people to give a crap about attending your games.

You hit the nail dead on.

 

[bunt_q]

If your program is that good and that successful, it shouldn't matter who they are playing...people should want to go. That's what you don't understand about this whole thing. Where would DU be without UND, CC games? Sounds to me like you're in the same boat as the rest of the teams. You need other big time programs for people to give a crap about attending your games.

Not sure how DU draws. It helps to play interesting games for sure. But the difference is, some schools are appealing to other schools, some schools aren't.

Seriously, where does this hockey socialism come from? Is it that hard to accept that some schools are haves, others are have-nots? It's kind of pathetic actually. You guys could learn a lot from Boise State football - they are proud, feisty, and pretty good. They complain, and make their case for opportunity, but they don't whine and expect charity. You guys have equity of opportunity - that's all you're entitled to. You are not entitled to equal outcomes.

 

[bunt_q]

You're funny. You think hockey is big in America and not a regional sport.

Baseball is huge in America and college isn't the normal path there either. But, don't let facts get in the way of your fantasy.

It is a small sport, absolutely. Which is why I don't care what happens in Bemidji, Houghton, and whatever other hockey hamlet you guys may be representing. There is nothing to be ashamed of in aligning yourself with the best (and most interesting to your fans/alumni) teams you can. It's vital, especially in a regional sport.

Seriously, what's so bad about this outcome?

Northern Michigan, Tech, and LSSU in the same conference?
Anchorage and Fairbanks in the same conference?

What is the real complaint from the remaining WCHA teams? Please tell me it's more than just your feelings got hurt.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Not sure how DU draws. It helps to play interesting games for sure. But the difference is, some schools are appealing to other schools, some schools aren't.

Seriously, where does this hockey socialism come from? Is it that hard to accept that some shocks are haves, others are have-nots? It's kind of pathetic actually. You guys could learn a lot from Boise State football - they are proud, feisty, and pretty good. They complain, And make their case for opportunity, but they don't whine and expect charity. You guys have equity of opportunity - that's all you're entitled to. You are not entitled to equal outcomes.

Um, we never said there were no have-nots. We would like to know how you expect hockey to grow when any budding program gets pushed aside by conferences like the BT and NCHC? If anything, hockey will shrink because schools like BGSU and UAH don't have a chance to be in a "big time conference" and they end up folding the program.

Just like the NaCHo(C), you are looking at the short moneygrab. You fail to see the long-term results.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

It is a small sport, absolutely. Which is why I don't care what happens in Bemidji, Houghton, and whatever other hockey hamlet you guys may be representing. There is nothing to be ashamed of in aligning yourself with the best (and most interesting to your fans/alumni) teams you can. It's vital, especially in a regional sport.

Seriously, what's so bad about this outcome?

Northern Michigan, Tech, and LSSU in the same conference?
Anchorage and Fairbanks in the same conference?

What is the real complaint from the remaining WCHA teams? Please tell me it's more than just your feelings got hurt.

You must have been absent the day the CHA fell apart and Alabama-Huntsville had nowhere to play. The NCAA is already giving a waiver to Men's NCAA hockey for a 16 team tournament. We'll likely have to go back to a 12 team format. That's not good for anybody.

But, you got yours. Whatever that is. I imagine those Western Michigan tickets are going to sell like hotcakes.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Not sure how DU draws. It helps to play interesting games for sure. But the difference is, some schools are appealing to other schools, some schools aren't.

Seriously, where does this hockey socialism come from? Is it that hard to accept that some shocks are haves, others are have-nots? It's kind of pathetic actually. You guys could learn a lot from Boise State football - they are proud, feisty, and pretty good. They complain, And make their case for opportunity, but they don't whine and expect charity. You guys have equity of opportunity - that's all you're entitled to. You are not entitled to equal outcomes.

I'm not asking for charity, I've never asked for charity. My program just signed a contract to pay Mel Pearson more than any other WCHA (including the defecting teams). And now the WCHA blows up. That's what I'm ****ed about. MacInnes Arena to me is on par or better than any arena in the NCHC with the exception of Engelstadt but thats not really fair to compare with anyone. The only thing Michigan Tech lacks is wins...they came within 1 win of making the NCAAs in 2007. Their committment is right there. Our fans travel better than anyone currently in the WCHA except UND, UW and Minny from what I've seen. Based on the creation of this conference, Michigan Tech probably would have been included if it was created June 2007...thats how silly this whole thing is. UMD & WMU are members simply because last year they did well. That's an absurd basis for creating a conference.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I want hockey to grow by quality, I said that. I do not care if hockey survives in Alabama, I'll admit that openly. I am not sure how long you guys have followed college hockey... but I enjoy that there is expectation that college players show up in the NHL draft (even if college has had a rough couple years, at least there were articles noticing/discussing that fact). In the 80s, we didn't see that so much. And I think - just my opinion - that focusing on the quality of the programs/conferences we have furthers that goal most effectively. Reasonable people can disagree on that point. But even if I don't like the Big 10, I do think that the addition of Penn State is worth 10 Moorhead States, and 50 Alabama-Huntsvilles.

So why won't anybody answer my direct questions?

1. If you were SCSU, would you join the NCHC, or stay in the WCHA?

2. What is the real complaint from the remaining WCHA teams? (Other than the fact that the conference was created - I mean, complain with the outcome.)

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I'm not asking for charity, I've never asked for charity. My program just signed a contract to pay Mel Pearson more than any other WCHA (including the defecting teams). And now the WCHA blows up. That's what I'm ****ed about. MacInnes Arena to me is on par or better than any arena in the NCHC with the exception of Engelstadt but thats not really fair to compare with anyone. The only thing Michigan Tech lacks is wins...they came within 1 win of making the NCAAs in 2007. Their committment is right there. Our fans travel better than anyone currently in the WCHA except UND, UW and Minny from what I've seen. Based on the creation of this conference, Michigan Tech probably would have been included if it was created June 2007...thats how silly this whole thing is. UMD & WMU are members simply because last year they did well. That's an absurd basis for creating a conference.

I have said in the past, actually, if I was building a NCHC, I might have considered Tech on tradition alone. It certainly would've been worth thinking about over St. Cloud. But not my decision, and a different discussion altogether. I don't agree with every individual choice of NCHC teams, but I don't disagree with the concept of forming a new/more interesting conference. The WCHA had gotten more dull over the years.

I am curious, though... other than hating the fact that the conference was created, what is your complaint with the new WCHA?

You'll have more/closer natural rivals. What is the problem?

EDIT: I just switch to my computer - I had been on my phone. Your sig didn't show up on my phone, so I wasn't sure which team you supported, actually, or I would have asked you that earlier.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I, for one, have answered the first one. I would have stayed. It's not like there's a big tv contract in the NCHC. The best one is the SiouxSports one, and that is not that great of a contract. SCSU could have (theoretically) a powerhouse in the current WCHA. Winning = better recruits. As I see it, I see SCSU not doing too well in the NCHC.

As for the second question, the NCHC left the WCHA in the lurch, forcing them to look for teams that also want to move conferences.

And as I said, who is to say UAH can't become an annual tourney team? No conference wants them, to give them a chance to try. As for your charity argument, why couldn't PSU join the CCHA? Every program has to start somewhere. And bigger teams are needed for that jumpstart. You still are failing to understand that.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

You must have been absent the day the CHA fell apart and Alabama-Huntsville had nowhere to play.

So what? That doesn't address the question. What is your complaint with the new WCHA?

I'll remind you, neither the CCHA nor the WCHA wanted (or presently wants) UAH either. We haven't reduced the number of conferences.

So what is your specific beef? How does the NCHC hurt these schools specifically? Because you won't get to play North Dakota? Nobody seems able to tell me what the problem is today, without complaining about the fact that the conference was formed.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

So what? That doesn't address the question. What is your complaint with the new WCHA?

I'll remind you, neither the CCHA nor the WCHA wanted (or presently wants) UAH either. We haven't reduced the number of conferences.

So what is your specific beef? How does the NCHC hurt these schools specifically? Because you won't get to play North Dakota? Nobody seems able to tell me what the problem is today, without complaining about the fact that the conference was formed.

Then you obviously have ignored every point I've made. And are currently ignoring Scooby's.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I, for one, have answered the first one. I would have stayed. It's not like there's a big tv contract in the NCHC. The best one is the SiouxSports one, and that is not that great of a contract. SCSU could have (theoretically) a powerhouse in the current WCHA. Winning = better recruits. As I see it, I see SCSU not doing too well in the NCHC.

As for the second question, the NCHC left the WCHA in the lurch, forcing them to look for teams that also want to move conferences.

And as I said, who is to say UAH can't become an annual tourney team? No conference wants them, to give them a chance to try. As for your charity argument, why couldn't PSU join the CCHA? Every program has to start somewhere. And bigger teams are needed for that jumpstart. You still are failing to understand that.

So why is SCSU leaving?

And why won't the WCHA now, or CCHA then, take UAH? The NCHC hasn't changed that math at all. It was an issue before, and still is.

TODAY, what's the problem TODAY? So the NCHC left the WCHA in a lurch, big deal. They survived. What's wrong with the WCHA as it looks (for 2013 obviously) NOW?

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Then you obviously have ignored every point I've made. And are currently ignoring Scooby's.

What point have I ignored? The potential shrinking of the NCAA tourney? That's a bad thing, yes.

But how has the NCHC made that situation worse? What program will go away as a result of the NCHC, and why? For the 3rd time, UAH couldn't find a home before any of this happened - the NCHC has not made that situation any better or worse.

St. Cloud just left. Add Alabama-Huntsville, today, why not? But the WCHA won't do it today anymore than they would have a year ago. Where's the greater good?

 

[The Rube]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

So why is SCSU leaving?

And why won't the WCHA now, or CCHA then, take UAH? The NCHC hasn't changed that math at all. It was an issue before, and still is.

TODAY, what's the problem TODAY? So the NCHC left the WCHA in a lurch, big deal. They survived. What's wrong with the WCHA as it looks (for 2013 obviously) NOW?

The lack of exposure that the big schools have. You cannot have all "haves" in a sport. It'll never grow (even relatively, in the case of a regional sport like hockey). You must have the haves and have nots in the same conferences to achieve growth. I don't know how many times I have to say that for you to understand it.

I even provided examples (SCSU, BSU), and yet you still cannot comprehend it.

BGSU is on the brink of folding, and not having a bigger school in the conference won't help the cause.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

The lack of exposure that the big schools have. You cannot have all "haves" in a sport. It'll never grow (even relatively, in the case of a regional sport like hockey). You must have the haves and have nots in the same conferences to achieve growth. I don't know how many times I have to say that for you to understand it.

I even provided examples (SCSU, BSU), and yet you still cannot comprehend it.

You are saying that SCSU and BSU grew ONLY because they were able to play North Dakota and Denver every year?

Well, that's not something you are entitled to. That is charity. If those schools only want to schedule each other, that's their right.

EDIT: The WCHA can take BGSU too. Why not?

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

The WCHA can take BGSU too. Why not?

Eff BGSU. Toledo is a crap hole that no Division 1 player should have to travel to ever.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

You are saying that SCSU and BSU grew ONLY because they were able to play North Dakota and Denver every year?

Well, that's not something you are entitled to. That is charity. If those schools only want to schedule each other, that's their right.

EDIT: The WCHA can take BGSU too. Why not?

I hope BGSU and UAH find homes.

And yes, SCSU and BSU (and now PSU!! Imagine that!) grew because the big schools took them in their conference. And now SCSU and BSU are holding their own. That's how a sport grows. You can't possibly be so dense that this fact escapes your understanding.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

You know, there are ways to generate interest without playing big schools. You have no control over that - you can complain all you want, but there is absolutely nothing you can do about the choices Minnesota, Wisconsin, North Dakota make.

I mean it, you guys could learn a lot from Boise State football, just in terms of attitude. You'll still get non-conference opportunities - every big school wants to schedule a team they think they can beat. You may have to travel more than they do, but that's true in every sport (try getting a Big 10 school to schedule a non-conf road game). But if you win, it's a big deal. You can capitalize on that. And you can develop local rivalries within your conference that draw crowds. CC and DU weren't always big schools... they were last year after year in the 80s, and I'd say it was a bigger game then than it is now.

You really need to focus on things you can control. I do not see what's so bad about the new WCHA. It looks to me like a fun little conference. I don't see what all the fuss is about. If it's just about not being able to schedule North Dakota, Minnesota, Denver, whatever... there is only one response to that - too dang bad, move on, that ship has sailed.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

You can't possibly be so dense that this fact escapes your understanding.

That is how hockey USED to grow. You're going to have to find a new model now.

That is not, however, how other sports grow. Teams start is a mediocre conference. They get established, then after some success, they try and move to a bigger conference. Western Michigan and St. Cloud are good models of that for college hockey. TCU football. Texas State football now - they're FCS - now they're looking at moving up and maybe into the WAC - someday, who knows, the Big 12 maybe. Lots of examples out there. Don't be naive, the days of kumbaya conferences between the WCHA (we'll take Anchorage) and the CCHA (you take Fairbanks) are over.

If you have anybody to blame, it might be the CCHA, and now the new WCHA. They are the lower-profile conference - they're the ones who should accept an Alabama-Huntsville. The NCHC just made room - they took St, Cloud off your hands. So quit being selfish - let them in.