The new Super League is going down the tubes.

[4four4]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Seems to me if anybody got stabbed it was the CCHA. I haven't heard of any WCHA teams that are being forced to make a move. You'll just be traveling to different cities. Sorry if I don't have a lot of sympathy.

Why does this have to be about arrogance, or big national TV contracts (show me one press release where anybody from the NCHC expects this - certainly nobody in Colorado Springs expects it)?? You do what's best for your program, we'll do what's best for ours.

If you are worried about the greater good, call your state legislature, let them cut a check. It's not our job to subsidize hockey in Houghton, Bemidji, and Anchorage. We all want to see the game succeed, but not at our expense. And again, sorry if I am not entirely sympathetic to your supposed plight. It's just not as fun to watch the Mankatos of the world. Don't deny it, you'd rather watch DU than Mankato any day of the week. Let's cut through the BS, you guys are just a tad jealous that your programs aren't viewed as highly as some others. Deal with it.

I'd rather watch SEC football than the Mountain West, too. And it doesn't bother me a bit that the system is unfair (shedding a tear) to Wyoming.

Let's take a poll - if you were SCSU's athletic director, who here among you would reject the NCHC and stay in the WCHA now? Anybody?

Like I said in a another thread. Just come out and say you ruined college hockey so we can tar and feather your aass.

 

[bunt_q]

That's not the question. The question is: If you were the AD at Denver in April, would you have tried to form a new conference without half of the remaining WCHA teams, or would you consider that the WCHA would still be strong without Minnesota or Wisconsin (which of them made the Final Five this year?) and worked to make an already strong conference even stronger?

I think an AD would be remiss to not explore all the options. And in a time of change, why wouldn't a new conference be on the table? Sounds like there were plenty of internal problems with the WCHA. Without Wisconsin and Minnesota, the WCHA was indisputably weaker. And today, the NCHC is (on paper at least) stronger. For the teams who left, it's hard to argue this isn't better than the alternative. Hence my question - if you were SCSU, today, would you or would you not join the NCHC? Of course you would.

So like I said, we don't owe any of the left-behind teams anything, anymore than the Gophers and Badgers owe the new NCHC schools anything.

(That's what I meant by subsidize - unless you feel you are worse off playing the new WCHA schools than you would be playing the NCHC school, what are you complaining about? Of course you'd be better off playing us. But we are better off where we are heading now. So in effect, staying behind, holding the WCHA together out of charity, would have amounted to a subsidy.)

 

[bunt_q]

Like I said in a another thread. Just come out and say you ruined college hockey so we can tar and feather your aass.

Maybe it's time we stop thinking so provincially. If college hockey programs can't survive without a few token "big games" per year, then maybe they aren't all that vital. Is it North Dakota's responsibility to fill the house in Houghton? Wisconsin's responsibility? How can we ever grow the sport if we're so limited? How about you guys worry about yourselves, rather than expect charity visits from big schools?

EDIT: You guys should think more like a Winnipeg, less like an Atlanta. How about some homegrown support. If the NCHC "kills college hockey" you'll have nobody to blame but yourselves.

 

[MavsFan]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Maybe it's time we stop thinking so provincially. If college hockey programs can't survive without a few token "big games" per year, then maybe they aren't all that vital. Is it North Dakota's responsibility to fill the house in Houghton? How can we ever grow the sport if we're so limited?

And how do you "grow the sport" by having programs fold? People keep missing the point; it isn't that the couple of "token big games" are needed, it's the perception that your program is in a quality conference that is needed to keep them successful at the gate for all games.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Maybe it's time we stop thinking so provincially. If college hockey programs can't survive without a few token "big games" per year, then maybe they aren't all that vital. Is it North Dakota's responsibility to fill the house in Houghton? Wisconsin's responsibility? How can we ever grow the sport if we're so limited? How about you guys worry about yourselves, rather than expect charity visits from big schools?

Right now, if BSU were still looking for a conference, would the NaCHo(C) take them? No. They'd probably end up in the WCHA, where there is little exposure. They grew in D1 because they were in a conference with the "haves." If the whole conference is "haves" how can other programs grow when they all have to play each other?

Conferences need the little guy just as much as the little guy needs them, if you want growth.

 

[bunt_q]

And how do you "grow the sport" by having programs fold? People keep missing the point; it isn't that the couple of "token big games" are needed, it's the perception that your program is in a quality conference that is needed to keep them successful at the gate for all games.

See my edit. Winnipeg not Atlanta.

But there you go again, relying on other schools to give you the perception of a quality conference. Again, not our responsibility to provide you with quality cred. Build your own.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

See my edit. Winnipeg not Atlanta.

But there you go again, relying on other schools to give you the perception of a quality conference. Again, not our responsibility to provide you with quality cred. Build your own.

You don't get it, do you. How do you build your own, when you are in a conference of like schools? Little schools have the chance to grow because of the big schools. See: BSU.

 

[bunt_q]

Conferences need the little guy just as much as the little guy needs them, if you want growth.

Define growth. Quality, or just quantity? Alabama Huntsville does not interest me. College hockey being a competitive path to the NHL alongside major juniors, that's a development I like. That's better for the sport all around. If lots of schools participating was enough, we'd be a volleyball country.

 

[bunt_q]

You don't get it, do you. How do you build your own, when you are in a conference of like schools? Little schools have the chance to grow because of the big schools. See: BSU.

There will still be non conference games. Every sport has its elite and its not. And I suppose every sport has complaining from the have-nits, so this is probably a pointless discussion. Troy State still gets to play Nebraska. McNeese State is never hurting for non conference opponents either. But for the sport, the country, and the NFL, we need Nebraskas. College hockey has been hamstrung for too long by big schools supporting the little. Well, the Big 10 took care of that. You'll just have to adapt to the new reality (and I suppose complaint a lot, a'la Boise State).

That's what the WCHA is now - it's the Mountain West of college hockey. But you'll sill get a tourney bid, so you have even less to complain about.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Define growth. Quality, or just quantity? Alabama Huntsville does not interest me. College hockey being a competitive path to the NHL alongside major juniors, that's a development I like. That's better for the sport all around. If lots of schools participating was enough, we'd be a volleyball country.

UAH hasn't had a chance to grow, because no one is taking them in. BSU did have a chance to grow, because the big schools let them in their conference. Who's to say that UAH couldn't grow into an annual tourney team? They haven't got the chance to try.

SCSU had a chance to grow, because of the same reasons BSU did. That's what I consider growth.

 

[bunt_q]

UAH hasn't had a chance to grow, because no one is taking them in. BSU did have a chance to grow, because the big schools let them in their conference. Who's to say that UAH couldn't grow into an annual tourney team? They haven't got the chance to try.

SCSU had a chance to grow, because of the same reasons BSU did. That's what I consider growth.

Well, welcome the era of big conferences. I'd suggest you watch football for a while to get the proper mindset for the future of college hockey. But blaming the NCHC is pointless.

If anything, we may need the NCHC to keep any small school programs afloat. Schools like DU, UND, Miami, surely not CC... These schools don't survive in other sports versus the likes of the Big 10, let alone remain "elite". Growing Alabama is very low on my priority list now. Let the NCAA worry about that.

You still haven't answered the fundamental question - why is it one school's responsibility to develop small programs? Why should North Dakota worry about Tech?

 

[The Rube]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Well, welcome the era of big conferences. I'd suggest you watch football for a while to get the proper mindset for the future of college hockey. But blaming the NCHC is pointless.

If anything, we may need the NCHC to keep any small school programs afloat. Schools like DU, UND, Miami, surely not CC... These schools don't survive in other sports versus the likes of the Big 10, let alone remain "elite". Growing Alabama is very low on my priority list now. Let the NCAA worry about that.

You still haven't answered the fundamental question - why is it one schools responsibility to develop small programs?

I have answered it: growth.

And I blame the B1G Mistake overall for this massive change. The NaCHo(C) is just another mistake to add to the pile.

 

[GoBeavers]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Right now, if BSU were still looking for a conference, would the NaCHo(C) take them? No. They'd probably end up in the WCHA, where there is little exposure. They grew in D1 because they were in a conference with the "haves." If the whole conference is "haves" how can other programs grow when they all have to play each other?

Conferences need the little guy just as much as the little guy needs them, if you want growth.

You do realize that BSU is just starting it's SECOND year in the WCHA right?

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I have answered it: growth.

And I blame the B1G Mistake overall for this massive change. The NaCHo(C) is just another mistake to add to the pile.

Well, I don't disagree there. But something like the Big 10 was inevitable, and in the long run, probably necessary.

As for growth... that's nice and idealistic, but not realistic. There is no greater good on the radar of any AD. These are real people with real interests, budgets, and accountability. I don't want to say it's all about money... hockey still isn't football. But it's still a factor. One NCHC school that shall remain unnamed I know already runs its program in the red every year. How much more can you ask any one school to give up? Sorry, but those days are done, it's each man for himself now. (And in reality, it always was, it's just that the equation was somewhat different two decades ago than it is now.)

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

You do realize that BSU is just starting it's SECOND year in the WCHA right?

Hypothetically speaking. Whoever's the next BSU.

Say, a Moorhead State. No, the NCHC probably won't take them.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

You do realize that BSU is just starting it's SECOND year in the WCHA right?

Yes. My point was, that if the big schools only wanted other big schools, BSU wouldn't even be in the WCHA in the first place.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Yes. My point was, that if the big schools only wanted other big schools, BSU wouldn't even be in the WCHA in the first place.

Is it an accepted and agreed upon fact that adding Bemidji was a good thing?

To me, those are tickets that are hard to give away when you have extras. It does give me the opportunity once a year to tell the Paul Bunyan story in an area where not everybody knows who he and Babe are. But apart from that...

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Is it an accepted and agreed upon fact that adding Bemidji was a good thing?

To me, those are tickets that are hard to give away when you have extras. It does give me the opportunity once a year to tell the Paul Bunyan story in an area where not everybody knows who he and Babe are. But apart from that...

Inevitability is a big thing with you. I suppose that's what you say when anything bad happens to anyone else. I don't imagine you say that when something bad happens to you or something you care about though.

Cry me a river on the Bemidji tickets.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Is it an accepted and agreed upon fact that adding Bemidji was a good thing?

To me, those are tickets that are hard to give away when you have extras. It does give me the opportunity once a year to tell the Paul Bunyan story in an area where not everybody knows who he and Babe are. But apart from that...

If your program is that good and that successful, it shouldn't matter who they are playing...people should want to go. That's what you don't understand about this whole thing. Where would DU be without UND, CC games? Sounds to me like you're in the same boat as the rest of the teams. You need other big time programs for people to give a crap about attending your games.

 

[bunt_q]

Inevitability is a big thing with you. I suppose that's what you say when anything bad happens to anyone else. I don't imagine you say that when something bad happens to you or something you care about though.

Cry me a river on the Bemidji tickets.

You would prefer big schools and large name-brand conferences stay out of hockey forever? Yes, I did see that as inevitable. I even hoped it was inevitable. An orderly transition would've been nice, but when has the NCAA ever done anything orderly vis a vis conferences? Hockey can't become one of the "big four" sports in the U.S. and remain outside the collegiate structure used by pretty much every other sport forever. You've never had that discussion with non-hockey people before, and tried to explain that college is not the normal path to the NHL? It's an easier path now than it's ever been before, though, which is probably why it got the Big 10's attention.

Haha, and charity seems to be big with you guys. The greater good. Wealth transfer. Big schools doing what's best for the smaller schools. Hockey as socialist endeavor.