The new Super League is going down the tubes.

[dggoddard]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Reason and Logic are not welcome here

Perhaps this is the reason behind the NCHC saying no to Notre Dame?

It appears that Notre Dame got a great offer from HE and there was no way the NCHC could match it.

Thanks. Corrected.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Because Hockey East decided to become the Notre Dame Hockey Conference. (also, the only source I have seen that mentions scheduling eludes that this will be the set up, at least for Notre Dame (and if that is the case, then it will create a horribly unbalanced schedule in the NDHC))

Horribly unbalanced?

Notre Dame comes east five times a year, plays games at BU-UML, BC-PC, MC-NU, UMA-UVM, UNH-UMO. Sounds horribly unbalanced. Or are you referring to the line in the report that says they will come east five times and play each HEA foe five times? See that word before the phrase? "Apparently." Considering that HEA will be adding a 12th team, then that deal would be off (if it ever existed).

If the conference stays at 11 and the "apparently" deal happens then we'll see how that plays out in the schedule. I doubt it will be only the Irish that have this. Teams hate making the trip up to Alfond, so I can see them making the same arrangement with Maine (which, BTW, was already suggested as an alternative somewhere on these boards).

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Horribly unbalanced?

Notre Dame comes east five times a year, plays games at BU-UML, BC-PC, MC-NU, UMA-UVM, UNH-UMO. Sounds horribly unbalanced. Or are you referring to the line in the report that says they will come east five times and play each HEA foe five times? See that word before the phrase? "Apparently." Considering that HEA will be adding a 12th team, then that deal would be off (if it ever existed).

If the conference stays at 11 and the "apparently" deal happens then we'll see how that plays out in the schedule. I doubt it will be only the Irish that have this. Teams hate making the trip up to Alfond, so I can see them making the same arrangement with Maine (which, BTW, was already suggested as an alternative somewhere on these boards).

At this point, I can only go off the published article. If it turns out to be wrong, then yes, everything would change. That being said, it is the only article I know of that has discussed the schedule to this amount of detail. Therefore, until presented with other information it appears like either you only play each team in conference in one series, and only host that team every other year. If it is just for Notre Dame, it creates unbalanced schedule. In your example...

Notre Dame plays 5 teams at home twice and they would play each team in conference on the road once. That means that 5 teams are playing Notre Dame three times, and 5 are playing them once. For the 5 teams that play Notre Dame three times, they have 17 games to play the other 9 teams. They cannot play everyone home and home, as that would give them too many games. The same goes for the 5 teams that play Notre Dame only once. They now have 19 games to play the other 9 teams. They could theoretically play the other teams home and home, but that would give them only 19 games total. It's a mess, and unbalanced. I would classify it as horribly unbalanced.

More likely, Notre Dame plays 5 teams at home twice and 5 teams on the road twice. If they do that, and the rest of the league plays home/away's see DGs BC example. If they then play everyone home/away it gives them an unbalanced schedule of 11 home/9 road games (or 11 road/9 home). Again, I would classify this as horribly unbalanced.

What makes the most sense then, if Notre Dame plays 5 teams at home, and 5 teams on the road (twice each)?

Everyone plays 5 teams at home and 5 teams on the road (twice each).

If this is the case, then you will only see your conference mates at home every other year. This was my initial question posed to those fans of the NDHC...does that please you?

 

[Priceless]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

He's not a strong critical thinker. I'm blocking him, he's a waste of time.

He usually adds quite a bit to the discussion..he's just being an idiot in this case, probably because followers of the HUG8 Mistake have to find some reason to criticize this deal, even though details haven't even been released yet.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

He usually adds quite a bit to the discussion..he's just being an idiot in this case, probably because followers of the HUG8 Mistake have to find some reason to criticize this deal, even though details haven't even been released yet.

FWIW, I have been against the NCHC since its inception. I am not a proponent of the conference. I did not care whether Notre Dame came to the NCHC or went elsewhere, as I think they'll wind up in the B1G in a few years anyway.

Also, my posts are not trying to criticize the deal. I have stated in other posts that it will be very beneficial to the conference. I am trying to pose a question based on what we know of the situation. If you want to call me an idiot, and if that makes you feel better about what I'm asking, fine. I am trying to ask a real question, and no one has answered it.

 

[SanTropez]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

NDHC, I love it...

 

[Priceless]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

FWIW, I have been against the NCHC since its inception. I am not a proponent of the conference. I did not care whether Notre Dame came to the NCHC or went elsewhere, as I think they'll wind up in the B1G in a few years anyway.

Also, my posts are not trying to criticize the deal. I have stated in other posts that it will be very beneficial to the conference. I am trying to pose a question based on what we know of the situation. If you want to call me an idiot, and if that makes you feel better about what I'm asking, fine. I am trying to ask a real question, and no one has answered it.

I didn't call you an idiot, I said you were acting like one

If the article is accurate and the ADs go along with making every team conform to that schedule, and the league stays at 11 teams, then yes, I suppose we would only host our conference foes every other year. But I could also see the ADs extending that schedule to Maine and having the rest of the league play home-and-home (as they have been). That way the schedule remains balanced and only ND and Maine fans will see conference teams only every other season.

 

[SCSU Euro]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

FWIW, I have been against the NCHC since its inception. I am not a proponent of the conference. I did not care whether Notre Dame came to the NCHC or went elsewhere, as I think they'll wind up in the B1G in a few years anyway.

Also, my posts are not trying to criticize the deal. I have stated in other posts that it will be very beneficial to the conference. I am trying to pose a question based on what we know of the situation. If you want to call me an idiot, and if that makes you feel better about what I'm asking, fine. I am trying to ask a real question, and no one has answered it.

I see your question, I'd love to answer it, but I don't see a logical answer.

HE teams are gonna come out to Notre Dame for one game, then drive somewhere else for a second? Uh... scheduling NIGHTMARE. So then are Mich and Mich State just gonna be FORCED to play whoever comes to town? They'd have to be the heavy hitters in this deal, they're the ones with the most OOC games to spare.

I have an idea that I'll admit I haven't followed through yet and I don't have time at work, but in my MIND at least it sounds logical, and wondering if anyone wants to follow it up and check themselves... what if the remaining 10 teams all paired up with, almost an "anti" rival. Like you wouldn't want to have BC and BU together, you'd want to find teams that AREN'T close to one another. So then whichever of the two teams, I'm making this up, this has nothing to do with geography, but lets say Maine is paired with BC.... well if its BC's year to travel to Notre Dame, then they host Maine that year. Following year Maine goes to South Bend but hosts BC. Then the remaining 8 teams that aren't Notre Dame or the team you're paired up with you could play one home and one away game.

Is there some glaring issue with this that I'm missing?

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I have an idea that I'll admit I haven't followed through yet and I don't have time at work, but in my MIND at least it sounds logical, and wondering if anyone wants to follow it up and check themselves... what if the remaining 10 teams all paired up with, almost an "anti" rival. Like you wouldn't want to have BC and BU together, you'd want to find teams that AREN'T close to one another. So then whichever of the two teams, I'm making this up, this has nothing to do with geography, but lets say Maine is paired with BC.... well if its BC's year to travel to Notre Dame, then they host Maine that year. Following year Maine goes to South Bend but hosts BC. Then the remaining 8 teams that aren't Notre Dame or the team you're paired up with you could play one home and one away game.

Is there some glaring issue with this that I'm missing?

It's an interesting concept. It gives equal home/away games. It means that each team gets Notre Dame and _____ every other year at their home barn, and everyone else is a home/away series. Given that each team is given a "anti-rival" it does create a slightly unbalanced schedule, but pretty good in comparison with what the other options are. I'm sure who is paired together would be a source of great debate though. Altogether a pretty good idea for a schedule for an 11 team conference.

 

[Stauber1]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

FWIW, I have been against the NCHC since its inception. I am not a proponent of the conference. I did not care whether Notre Dame came to the NCHC or went elsewhere, as I think they'll wind up in the B1G in a few years anyway.

Also, my posts are not trying to criticize the deal. I have stated in other posts that it will be very beneficial to the conference. I am trying to pose a question based on what we know of the situation. If you want to call me an idiot, and if that makes you feel better about what I'm asking, fine. I am trying to ask a real question, and no one has answered it.

You lose credibility when you start shoving the idea down people's throats that HE is bending over for ND, and by giving the conference a snarky and over-the-top moniker like NDHC.

That makes you come off like you have some hidden and petty resentment.

There is no reason to believe, at this point, that HE has made any serious concessions that sacrifices the rest of the league in order to appease ND; unless you are grasping for reasons to feel better about the NCHC losing out on ND.

 

[TheEagle]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

You lose credibility when you start shoving the idea down people's throats that HE is bending over for ND, and by giving the conference a snarky and over-the-top moniker like NDHC.

That makes you come off like you have some hidden and petty resentment.

There is no reason to believe, at this point, that HE has made any serious concessions that sacrifices the rest of the league in order to appease ND; unless you are grasping for reasons to feel better about the NCHC losing out on ND.

I'm not sure grasping is the correct word. All along, various media outlets said the NCHC was the preference (slightly) for Notre Dame. HE folks said things didn't get serious until recently. So, what caused ND to go to HE? I'm guessing HE was willing to make concessions that the NCHC wasn't. There's really little reason to believe otherwise. Now, whether the concessions will ultimately be good or bad for HE won't be known for years. Whether the NCHC should have agreed to those concessions may never be known. You sound like a Gophers fan that wants the NCHC to look bad.

 

[Stauber1]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I'm not sure grasping is the correct word. All along, various media outlets said the NCHC was the preference (slightly) for Notre Dame. HE folks said things didn't get serious until recently. So, what caused ND to go to HE? I'm guessing HE was willing to make concessions that the NCHC wasn't. There's really little reason to believe otherwise. Now, whether the concessions will ultimately be good or bad for HE won't be known for years. Whether the NCHC should have agreed to those concessions may never be known. You sound like a Gophers fan that wants the NCHC to look bad.

Maybe HE was willing to make concessions that the NCHC wasn't willing to make.
Or, maybe there is some truth in the idea that ND is looking to join a conference for the rest of its sports that would make HE a better fit. Or, maybe ND saw greater potential for a television deal being in HE. Or, maybe ND preferred the idea of joining an established conference. Or, maybe the big names in HE are going to garner more interest for the ND fans than the teams in the NCHC. Or, maybe ND liked the idea of playing in a conference with a greater degree of disparity so that they can be better assured to finish at the top of the table.

Maybe ND was using the NCHC as leverage. Maybe ND felt the NCHC was a better choice until determining their conference alignment in other sports impacted their alignment for hockey. Maybe the media reports were wrong.

There are a lot of maybes in any speculation here.

At any rate, it's ridiculous to prattle on about how HE is ND's *****, or to try to proclaim HE as the NDHC.
If you honestly think BC/BU/UNH/Maine are going to not have a significant voice in HE, you need to put down the pipe.
That WAS the claim made, and whether or not I am a Gopher fan has nothing to do with the perception of those making that claim.

 

[bronconick]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

All things being equal, NBC Sports probably also mentioned that if ND were to join a conference centered around a major eastern city where their camera men have probably already bought 2nd homes, it'd be worth more money to all parties than a league spread across 1,000+ miles across the Mississippi, where they fear to tread.

 

[SCSU Euro]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Maybe HE was willing to make concessions that the NCHC wasn't willing to make.
Or, maybe there is some truth in the idea that ND is looking to join a conference for the rest of its sports that would make HE a better fit. Or, maybe ND saw greater potential for a television deal being in HE. Or, maybe ND preferred the idea of joining an established conference. Or, maybe the big names in HE are going to garner more interest for the ND fans than the teams in the NCHC. Or, maybe ND liked the idea of playing in a conference with a greater degree of disparity so that they can be better assured to finish at the top of the table.

Maybe ND was using the NCHC as leverage. Maybe ND felt the NCHC was a better choice until determining their conference alignment in other sports impacted their alignment for hockey. Maybe the media reports were wrong.

There are a lot of maybes in any speculation here.

At any rate, it's ridiculous to prattle on about how HE is ND's *****, or to try to proclaim HE as the NDHC.
If you honestly think BC/BU/UNH/Maine are going to not have a significant voice in HE, you need to put down the pipe.
That WAS the claim made, and whether or not I am a Gopher fan has nothing to do with the perception of those making that claim.

You being a Gopher fan does have nothing to do with your perception, just like I believe FS23 being a Sioux fan had nothing to do with it. I think he is like me; would having Notre Dame in the NCHC be ok? Sure. Would having the league without them be ok? Sure. Is it worth it to make concessions such as $ (don't know if HE has, but wouldn't surprise me if that's the case, also wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't), scheduling (sure looks like HE has), an odd number of teams (could change but that's where it is currently), and number of conference games (HE definately has).

Notre Dame is the pretty girl you asked to prom; you had to take her to a fancy restaurant, spend a $ on the limo, she complained about everything, and at the end ditched you to go hang out with some college guy she knew. SCSU and WMU are the less attractive girl that loves beer and puts out.

 

[Stauber1]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

You being a Gopher fan does have nothing to do with your perception, just like I believe FS23 being a Sioux fan had nothing to do with it. I think he is like me; would having Notre Dame in the NCHC be ok? Sure. Would having the league without them be ok? Sure. Is it worth it to make concessions such as $ (don't know if HE has, but wouldn't surprise me if that's the case, also wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't), scheduling (sure looks like HE has), an odd number of teams (could change but that's where it is currently), and number of conference games (HE definately has).

Notre Dame is the pretty girl you asked to prom; you had to take her to a fancy restaurant, spend a $ on the limo, she complained about everything, and at the end ditched you to go hang out with some college guy she knew. SCSU and WMU are the less attractive girl that loves beer and puts out.

None of that is contradictory to my point; trying to paint it like HE is ND's ***** wreaks of sour grapes. Calling it the Notre Dame Hockey Conference makes you seem petty and loses you credibility.

I'll leave it at that and be done with the subject.

 

[TheEagle]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

None of that is contradictory to my point; trying to paint it like HE is ND's ***** wreaks of sour grapes. Calling it the Notre Dame Hockey Conference makes you seem petty and loses you credibility.

I'll leave it at that and be done with the subject.

The irony is that you are criticizing somebody for calling it the Notre Dame Hockey Conference in a 102 page thread devoted to ripping the NCHC--with a lot of derogatory names posted for the conference. I didn't read back far enough, but did you also criticize the people calling the NCHC the NACHO or Little 8 or whatever? If not, you are being a hypocrite. If you did, then well done.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

The irony is that you are criticizing somebody for calling it the Notre Dame Hockey Conference in a 102 page thread devoted to ripping the NCHC--with a lot of derogatory names posted for the conference. I didn't read back far enough, but did you also criticize the people calling the NCHC the NACHO or Little 8 or whatever? If not, you are being a hypocrite. If you did, then well done.

This was almost my exact response that I was about to post. I'm glad someone realized that I brought up NDHC in response to the name calling going on. It was not intended to be serious.

 

[mnwizkid]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

The Sioux ruined, I don't think so! They weren't the first ones to jump ship. It appears the Badgers & Gophers were the first ones, and I am dissapointed with UNO jumping ship as well. Did they not make a commitment to join the WCHA, only to leave quite early. I am glad that my home team Bemidji, kept their word, I doubt the U of Minnesota would ever play the Beavers again after the switch. But I am hopeful that UM Duluth and North Dakota would. As money gets tighter, it only makes sense to keep travel expenses at a minimum. But then again, that's whats wrong with our whole country, too much expense with no one accountable!

 

[Stauber1]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

The irony is that you are criticizing somebody for calling it the Notre Dame Hockey Conference in a 102 page thread devoted to ripping the NCHC--with a lot of derogatory names posted for the conference. I didn't read back far enough, but did you also criticize the people calling the NCHC the NACHO or Little 8 or whatever? If not, you are being a hypocrite. If you did, then well done.

I said I would leave it at my last post, but I guess just one more...

The difference is, most of those using "derogatory" names for the NCHC are doing so with UNhidden resentment. There's no real spin going on there. They know what they are doing, why and (for the vast majority) not pretending it's something that it's not.

Again, it doesn't change the fact that the original posts I was responding to were claiming that HE was letting ND bend them over and have their way with HE; and then using that premise for the basis of further discussion. See my above comments on that.

For the record, I've always referred to the NCHC as the NCHC. I guess that's my hypocrisy shing through.


This is all horribly tangential to the original point.
Claiming that HE is going to be at the whim of ND on all matters, calling it the NDHC, and then trying to propel the discussion based upon those claims is ludicrous and makes you lose credibility. Not acknowledging (or simply ignoring) the possibility that ND WANTED and PREFERRED joining HE over the NCHC, regardless of any peripheral deals or concessions, makes you lose credibility.

And now I'm done.

 

[TheEagle]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

The Sioux ruined, I don't think so! They weren't the first ones to jump ship. It appears the Badgers & Gophers were the first ones, and I am dissapointed with UNO jumping ship as well. Did they not make a commitment to join the WCHA, only to leave quite early. I am glad that my home team Bemidji, kept their word, I doubt the U of Minnesota would ever play the Beavers again after the switch. But I am hopeful that UM Duluth and North Dakota would. As money gets tighter, it only makes sense to keep travel expenses at a minimum. But then again, that's whats wrong with our whole country, too much expense with no one accountable!

I'm not sold on the NCHC, but I think it could be interesting. Some of the teams have a rich history. Some do not. However, those that do not seem quite committed to hockey now--which is really all that's relevant now. The team I feel for the most is Bemidji State, and Iwould hope UND plays home and away games your squad. May you dominate the new WCHA!